thedoper wrote:I honestly dont think there's a realistic trade that gets us Simmons. But based on what I think his actual value is its somewhere along McDaniels + whatever philly prefers of DLo or Beas + 2 unprotected picks. If we're not willing to give up that much we dont get Simmons in my opinion. Im totally fine with people thinking loosing McDaniels isnt worth it, I just think that is what it would actually take.
Doper - I think the Sixers would prefer DLO and Beasley over McDaniels and only one of those two. DLO and Beasley are both more win-now players than McDaniels and the Sixers will undoubtedly be looking for players that can help them remain a contender in the near term, including this upcoming season. Whether DLO and Beasley would be good enough is an open question. Is that duo better than the following duos: Haliburton and Hield; VanVleet and Anunoby; Sexton and Love; DeJounte Murray and Lonnie Walker (or Poeltl)? I don't think a Beasley/McDaniels duo or a DLO/McDaniels duo competes with any of those other combos.
I continue to think most of those combos just aren't being offered to Philadelphia anymore, if they actually were at some point. Those kinds of offers would have come around draft night before free agency began. I don't see Minnesota offering D'Angelo Russell (or Anthony Edwards). I don't see Sacramento offering Tyrese Haliburton (or De'Aaron Fox). I don't see Toronto offering OG Anunoby (or Scottie Barnes). I think San Antonio is out completely on the Ben Simmons trade front at this point. I do see Collin Sexton being offered, but Philadelphia wouldn't take back Kevin Love's contract and Cleveland has limited ways to match salaries without giving up more value than they want to -- ie. including Isaac Okoro.
Not to mention, none of these combos get the Sixers closer to landing a franchise player to pair with Joel Embiid, which is probably the only way they actually get better from trading Simmons. And then you include the fact that Daryl Morey is the decision-maker in Philadelphia and he's as star-hungry as any executive ever. He'll take the most value in a trade he can get regardless of its "win now" pieces knowing that more moves will be needed in the future to catapult the Sixers to the NBA Finals.
Camden wrote:Nobody here should be surprised by my maximum offer. I've said for a long time now that I would give up what was necessary to form a foursome that included Karl-Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell, Anthony Edwards, and Ben Simmons. I think that foursome makes the Wolves a contender even in a loaded Western Conference with regular season win totals in the 50's. That's "totals" because the core would be established for multiple seasons. We'd be sacrificing depth initially, but the pillars would be in place, in my opinion. And they all fit with each other schematically from my view.
If you disagree with that, then I would certainly expect you to have different feelings about what assets you'd be willing to part with. This thread is about what your best and final offer would be. That was mine.
I just can't in good conscience give up 6 firsts and 2 2nds worth of value for Simmons. Shave a couple 1sts from your deal though and that's where I'm at. I see Beasley and McDaniels both commanding 1st rounders in a trade (albeit not high 1sts) and Beverly should be able to command a 2nd.
Camden wrote:Nobody here should be surprised by my maximum offer. I've said for a long time now that I would give up what was necessary to form a foursome that included Karl-Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell, Anthony Edwards, and Ben Simmons. I think that foursome makes the Wolves a contender even in a loaded Western Conference with regular season win totals in the 50's. That's "totals" because the core would be established for multiple seasons. We'd be sacrificing depth initially, but the pillars would be in place, in my opinion. And they all fit with each other schematically from my view.
If you disagree with that, then I would certainly expect you to have different feelings about what assets you'd be willing to part with. This thread is about what your best and final offer would be. That was mine.
I just can't in good conscience give up 6 firsts and 2 2nds worth of value for Simmons. Shave a couple 1sts from your deal though and that's where I'm at. I see Beasley and McDaniels both commanding 1st rounders in a trade (albeit not high 1sts) and Beverly should be able to command a 2nd.
I empathize with that and I'd obviously negotiate with the intent of getting Ben Simmons for much less than what I suggested in this thread. I've said the entire summer that Philadelphia won't receive a package that's equal to Simmons' on-court play, which is more in line with what my maximum offer would be. Most of my offers that I think the Wolves could get him have actually aligned with your evaluation.
Camden wrote:
I empathize with that and I'd obviously negotiate with the intent of getting Ben Simmons for much less than what I suggested in this thread. I've said the entire summer that Philadelphia won't receive a package that's equal to Simmons' on-court play, which is more in line with what my maximum offer would be. Most of my offers that I think the Wolves could get him have actually aligned with your evaluation.
Yeah for sure. I think we've been pretty close in general. I could see going higher than 4 firsts worth of value out, but that would also include more than Simmons coming back. I'm also torn in general on the notion of trading for Simmons or seeing what this roster can do as is.
I'm still fairly torn on whether I'd rather see this roster as is or see them bring in Simmons. Despite everything I think I'd lean Simmons, but it's tougher the more draft value is sent out. The roster right now is pretty intriguing to me and the main thing I wish was different is swapping Layman or Prince out for a legit big who can start next to KAT and play both C and PF.
This is about where I'm at with a final Simmons offer.
Beasley
Prince (salary filler)
2022 first (top 5 protected)
2024 first (top 5 protected)
2026 first (top 5 protected) or Bolmaro or McDaniels (even though I value McDaniels here much more than a 1st)
2022 2nd (the worst of the 3)
All in all, I just don't know that any deal happens as I believe it will require at least a 3rd team that wants picks.
