You Are Daryl Morey

[AbeVigodaLive]

I look at the Toronto deal but then I look at their record and they won an amazing 4 more games then the Wolves did last season. The Wolves were also without DLO and KAT for much of the season. If I'm Toronto I'm in rebuild mode, I can't be giving up 1st rounders in order to acquire Simmons. My core simply isn't good enough for me to contend with Simmons/Siakim. I'm probably a .500 team at best at that point.

You may have come up with the reason Toronto is reported to be not willing to make the deal. But I see it differently. Covid had more of an impact on the Raptors than any other team with the NBA shutting them down for a couple weeks. And yet still they finished the season with a +25 point differential. Basketball Reference said they were the unluckiest team in the league last year, and should have finished 34-32. That said, Toronto still isn't biting on Philly's offer.

Yep. I'd say the Raptors season was an anomaly.

They were 53 - 19 the previous season with four of the same starters. That's better than any Wolves team in history. Do we really think they dropped off THAT much THAT quickly without other factors? A major difference was that each of those starters missed between 16 and 29 games.

They also played in Tampa for chrissakes. They basically played an entire season on the road. And they went full tank to finish the season, losing 10 of their final 11.

Look at this late-season Toronto starting lineup without its top 6 scorers:

Stanley Johnson
Malachi Flynn
Khem Birch
Jalen Harris
Yuta Watanabe
... and DeAndre Bembry and Freddie Gillespie played 30+ minutes off the bench.


[Note: I chose the Toronto deal as the best one. I think Sacramento is 2nd. I think any deal with the Wolves is an "eye of the beholder" type of thing. There are definitely teams that would not look twice at acquiring Beasley or Russell as the key get in a trade... whether they're smart or not is another argument entirely.]

[FNG]

I look at the Toronto deal but then I look at their record and they won an amazing 4 more games then the Wolves did last season. The Wolves were also without DLO and KAT for much of the season. If I'm Toronto I'm in rebuild mode, I can't be giving up 1st rounders in order to acquire Simmons. My core simply isn't good enough for me to contend with Simmons/Siakim. I'm probably a .500 team at best at that point.

You may have come up with the reason Toronto is reported to be not willing to make the deal. But I see it differently. Covid had more of an impact on the Raptors than any other team with the NBA shutting them down for a couple weeks. And yet still they finished the season with a +25 point differential. Basketball Reference said they were the unluckiest team in the league last year, and should have finished 34-32. That said, Toronto still isn't biting on Philly's offer.

Yep. I'd say the Raptors season was an anomaly.

They were 53 - 19 the previous season with four of the same starters. That's better than any Wolves team in history. Do we really think they dropped off THAT much THAT quickly without other factors? A major difference was that each of those starters missed between 16 and 29 games.

They also played in Tampa for chrissakes. They basically played an entire season on the road. And they went full tank to finish the season, losing 10 of their final 11.

Look at this late-season Toronto starting lineup without its top 6 scorers:

Stanley Johnson
Malachi Flynn
Khem Birch
Jalen Harris
Yuta Watanabe
... and DeAndre Bembry and Freddie Gillespie played 30+ minutes off the bench.


[Note: I chose the Toronto deal as the best one. I think Sacramento is 2nd. I think any deal with the Wolves is an "eye of the beholder" type of thing. There are definitely teams that would not look twice at acquiring Beasley or Russell as the key get in a trade... whether they're smart or not is another argument entirely.]

Yikes! But you vastly underrate Watanabe, Abe. Name 5 better Japanese NBA players.

I rest my case...

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I agree with WW, FNG and some of the others. The Toronto package hands down is the best. VanVleet and Anunoby, are you kidding me? I might make that deal if I'm Philly even if there was no Ben Simmons rift to begin with!

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Now are any of these teams even remotely interested in offering any of these packages? Personally, I don't think so. We'd probably have a deal done by now. I voted for the first Wolves option because that's a massive haul of assets that could easily be flipped with additional assets from Philadelphia for Damian Lillard, Bradley Beal, or another high-level guard near the deadline. That's still the only option here that actually makes the Sixers a championship team.

[Wolvesfan21]

I didn't know Toronto went into tank mode, I do remember hearing that Siakim was really underwhelming last season. Is he a superstar or a guy you can build around to compete with Brooklyn/Philly/Bucks/etc? I don't think so, but maybe I'm wrong about that. :D

[AbeVigodaLive]

I look at the Toronto deal but then I look at their record and they won an amazing 4 more games then the Wolves did last season. The Wolves were also without DLO and KAT for much of the season. If I'm Toronto I'm in rebuild mode, I can't be giving up 1st rounders in order to acquire Simmons. My core simply isn't good enough for me to contend with Simmons/Siakim. I'm probably a .500 team at best at that point.

You may have come up with the reason Toronto is reported to be not willing to make the deal. But I see it differently. Covid had more of an impact on the Raptors than any other team with the NBA shutting them down for a couple weeks. And yet still they finished the season with a +25 point differential. Basketball Reference said they were the unluckiest team in the league last year, and should have finished 34-32. That said, Toronto still isn't biting on Philly's offer.

Yep. I'd say the Raptors season was an anomaly.

They were 53 - 19 the previous season with four of the same starters. That's better than any Wolves team in history. Do we really think they dropped off THAT much THAT quickly without other factors? A major difference was that each of those starters missed between 16 and 29 games.

They also played in Tampa for chrissakes. They basically played an entire season on the road. And they went full tank to finish the season, losing 10 of their final 11.

Look at this late-season Toronto starting lineup without its top 6 scorers:

Stanley Johnson
Malachi Flynn
Khem Birch
Jalen Harris
Yuta Watanabe
... and DeAndre Bembry and Freddie Gillespie played 30+ minutes off the bench.


[Note: I chose the Toronto deal as the best one. I think Sacramento is 2nd. I think any deal with the Wolves is an "eye of the beholder" type of thing. There are definitely teams that would not look twice at acquiring Beasley or Russell as the key get in a trade... whether they're smart or not is another argument entirely.]

Yikes! But you vastly underrate Watanabe, Abe. Name 5 better Japanese NBA players.

I rest my case...

Damn. FNG with the mic drop.

My apologies to Watanabe.

[TheGrey08]

Honestly if that's the offer it took for Simmons I would pass. I just don't like these potential deals that are including what I see as 5 to 6 first round picks worth of asset value, especially when everything we've heard indicates his market is no where near that.

I would personally cap at 4 first round assets (picks, Beasley, McDaniels, D'lo) along with filler.

[Lipoli390]

I look at the Toronto deal but then I look at their record and they won an amazing 4 more games then the Wolves did last season. The Wolves were also without DLO and KAT for much of the season. If I'm Toronto I'm in rebuild mode, I can't be giving up 1st rounders in order to acquire Simmons. My core simply isn't good enough for me to contend with Simmons/Siakim. I'm probably a .500 team at best at that point.

You may have come up with the reason Toronto is reported to be not willing to make the deal. But I see it differently. Covid had more of an impact on the Raptors than any other team with the NBA shutting them down for a couple weeks. And yet still they finished the season with a +25 point differential. Basketball Reference said they were the unluckiest team in the league last year, and should have finished 34-32. That said, Toronto still isn't biting on Philly's offer.

If the report posted by Cam in another thread is accurate, Toronto has already offered VanVleet and Anunoby + a pick or two for Simmons. I think the vast majority on this board would want the Wolves to swap DLO and McDaniels with one pick for Simmons. I can't see why Toronto wouldn't move VanVleet and Anunoby for Simmons.

[Lipoli390]

The vote on this board so far is really interesting. To date, it breaks down as 8 votes for the two Wolves' packages and 9 votes for other teams' packages. The Toronto package leads with 6 votes, followed by the Wolves Beasley/Jaden/draft pick package with 5 votes The Wolves' DLO/Jaden package is third with 3 votes, followed by Cleveland's Sexton/Okoro package with 2 votes. The Kings Haliburton/Hield package has garnered 1 vote so far.

The overall message from this vote is that all these packages are fairly comparable in value, with a few of them apparently more valued than others by the collective wisdom of this board.

My own view is that the Wolves' Beasley/Jaden/draft-centric package has the greatest overall generic value. However, I don't think it's the best value proposition for the win-now Sixers. I think the Sexton/Okoro package would be the best value proposition for the Sixers with the VanVleet/Anuoby package a fairly close 2nd.

As I see it, the key to any deal from the Sixers' perspective is getting a dynamic lead guard to complement Embiid and Harris and help them win now. With that in mind, I voted for the Sexton/Okoro package because I think Sexton is the best dynamic scoring lead guard in any of the hypothetical packages, with VanVleet a fairly close second. Sexton was an elite scorer last season, averaging 24.5 point per game. His overall scoring efficiency as measured by TS was right up there with Simmons, yet unlike Simmons, Sexton was an excellent shooter from everywhere - the paint, mid-range, 3-point line and free-throw line. VanVleet and DLO are also very good offensive lead guards, but Sexton's stats from last season indicate he's better than both and, at his age with his talent and tremendous motor, he clearly has more upside than either of those other two. So I see Sexton as the next best thing to Lillard and Beal among the lead guards who are potentially available in a Simmons deal.

I view Sexton as the key that makes the Cleveland deal better than any of the others, even though I think the Toronto VanVleet/Anunoby and Minnesota DLO deals would also be good ones for the Sixers. Okoro and Houston's 2022 2nd-round pick also have significant positive value for the Sixers. I think Okoro is comparable to Anunoby and Jaden as a young talent - although not as good now as Anuoby and, in my view, with less upside than Jaden. Houston's 2nd-round pick is significant because it's likely to be a top 3 in that round, which makes it the functional equivalent of a lower 1st-round pick but with more team financial flexibility. So in essence, the Sexton/Okoro package would provide two actual 1st-round picks and essentially a third 1st-round pick at the top of the 2nd round. Philly would be set up for a really good 2022 draft with it's own 1st-round pick, Cleveland's 1-round pick and Houston's high 2nd-round pick. They could potentially package the picks from Cleveland with Sexton and Okoro for Lillard or Beal. If Cleveland were to offer the Sexton/Okoro package above, Morey would be a fool not to take it.