Wolves Cap-Clearing Opportunities

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

I don't think we should gut the team and give away assets (future picks). Now if russell is looking at 4/80 rather than 4/118 then i unload teague and a protected first if necessary. Better yet throw 4/80 @ brogdon if the plan is to make wiggs or culver more of a facilitator.

Brogdon
Culver
Wiggs
Covington
Kat

If not, i look to sign tyus at a good deal. I think they're are some pgs this off season that can be had cheaply. Frazier or joseph come to mind.

I also look at a versatile big. Khem birch or ricaun holmes (always liked that guy). Bith guys can move their feet, rebound, and provide rim protection.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I don't think we should gut the team and give away assets (future picks). Now if russell is looking at 4/80 rather than 4/118 then i unload teague and a protected first if necessary. Better yet throw 4/80 @ brogdon if the plan is to make wiggs or culver more of a facilitator.

Brogdon
Culver
Wiggs
Covington
Kat

If not, i look to sign tyus at a good deal. I think they're are some pgs this off season that can be had cheaply. Frazier or joseph come to mind.

I also look at a versatile big. Khem birch or ricaun holmes (always liked that guy). Bith guys can move their feet, rebound, and provide rim protection.

Brogdon is a fine player and very valuable in his own right, but he is not the shot creator this team needs and would not move the needle for us. Russell's offensive prowess, in theory, would make Towns that much harder to defend as well as allow Covington and Culver to play within their means -- as a 3/D forward and secondary ball-handler, respectively.

I don't think this board is fully appreciating how dynamic offensively D-Lo is.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I don't think Russell is a realistic option.

At this point, I don't think they should do anything else mind blowing. This is still a team that in all likelihood won't make the playoffs. I don't think they should part with future firsts to clear cap space at the moment.

I'd still offer Angel Delgado 3 years $9 mil and see if the Clippers match. Sign Dragan Bender to a 1 year $2.5 mil deal and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot to a 1 year vet minimum. I can see this team bringing Jones back at some cost

Towns /Dieng /Bender
Covington /Delgado or Green /Bates-Diop
Wiggins /Reynolds /TLC
Culver /Okogie /Nowell
Teague /Jones

If Delgado is matched, plan B would be to offer JaMychal Green a 2 year deal at $7 mil per season

Reid on a two-way deal, Battle on a Exhibit 10


The rotation would be 9 deep with Towns, Dieng, RoCo, Green or Delgado, Wiggins, Culver, Okogie, Teague, and Jones

Are you a Seton Hall fan? If not, I have no idea why you're championing for Angel Delgado. The guy played almost as many NBA minutes as you did last year and yet somehow he's worth $9M total from you? He's a two-way contract at best right now.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Cam, DLo isn't exactly a model of efficiency and that's one of my concers with him. Yes, he gets a lot of 3s up and he scored alot of points, but he has a Wiggins-esque TS% and is one of the least efficient high scorers in the NBA. Also, how's his defense?

I can see the merit in speculating that he eventually figures out how to draw more fouls and the 3's start falling at a higher rate, but man, he had three really poor seasons before the last one and he really wasn't THAT good last year.

I'd bet $1 (cuz I'm cheap) that Patrick Beverley would have more of a winning impact on our squad in 2020 vs. DLo.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Cam, DLo isn't exactly a model of efficiency and that's one of my concers with him. Yes, he gets a lot of 3s up and he scored alot of points, but he has a Wiggins-esque TS% and is one of the least efficient high scorers in the NBA. Also, how's his defense?

I can see the merit in speculating that he eventually figures out how to draw more fouls and the 3's start falling at a higher rate, but man, he had three really poor seasons before the last one and he really wasn't THAT good last year.

I'd bet $1 (cuz I'm cheap) that Patrick Beverley would have more of a winning impact on our squad in 2020 vs. DLo.

Q, I hear you, however my retort is going to start with the fact that Russell was one of seven players in the NBA last year to average at least 20.0 PPG and 7.0 APG. The other six? James Harden, Nikola Jokic, LeBron James, Russell Westbrook, Jrue Holiday, and John Wall (32 GP). I seriously don't think people are understanding just how much weight of the Nets offense was on his shoulders and how solid his production was. I mean, the guy had a 31.9 USG% last year. That was the sixth-highest in the league. That's higher than LeBron James, Kemba Walker, Russell Westbrook, Steph Curry, Kawhi Leonard, Kyrie Irving, and Damian Lillard to name a few. That is a hell of a lot of responsibility and defensive attention and to still churn out the sheer volume of shot creation he did is pretty impressive.

Andrew Wiggins' TS% over the last two years is a putrid .499 whereas Russell's is .525. I get it, he could absolutely be more efficient, but his .533 mark in 2018-19 was middle of the pack. Not great, far from bad. He's more comparable in scoring efficiency to Luka Doncic, DeMar DeRozan, Trae Young, Jamal Murray, Donovan Mitchell, and board favorite Josh Richardson.

Lastly, let's take a look at how he graded out in VORP last year. I tend to view VORP as a solid metric in determining where a player ranks amongst his peers. The usual names are at the top -- James Harden, Giannis Antetokounmpo, etc. -- and there's usually minimal "WTF" names that are ranked all that highly. Basically, it tends to check out with the eye test and common sense.

Russell was tied with Joel Embiid and Andre Drummond for the 25th-highest VORP. Just behind Bradley Beal, Kawhi Leonard, and Pascal Siakam. Higher than Jrue Holiday. Higher than Mike Conley. Higher than Jimmy Butler. Higher than Kyle Lowry. And 27 spots higher than Patrick Beverly.

I get it. Russell isn't an imposing physical force. He's not a good defender. He could be more efficient at scoring the basketball. He's 23-years old and has played for two franchises already. His past isn't as clean as we'd like it to be. BUT. He is an All-Star player and he is one of the top-30 players in the league right now. It would be a mistake to not appreciate the player he was last year and the potential impact he could have in Minnesota where he's no longer the only potent scoring threat.

[Lipoli390]

Cam and Q - Great debate between you guys on Russell. You're both right about Russell.

On the negative side, I'll add concern about his character as reflected in his recent weed citation. There was snitch-gate in LA, which give me some pause. However, that can be chalked up mainly to immaturity as a 20-year old rookie. But his weed possession in May, on top of his earlier antics in LA, concerns me. This isn't about whether weed should be legal or not. It's about judgment and the importance of weed in his life. Regarding his judgment, weed is still illegal in NY and most states; yet he had it in his possession in a NY airport and thought he could get away with taking it through an airport in a coffee can. That definitely calls his judgment into question and it suggests a troubling level of arrogance. I read an article recently on in which an NBA official referred to Russell as a Diva. Apparently, weed is so important to him, he had to have it with him on the plane to wherever he was going. Like most, I've smoke weed. I happen to believe the effects if smoked a lot reduce drive and intensity, two things essential to being an elite NBA player. But put that effect aside, the fact remains that weed is on the NBA's forbidden substance list and testing positive for it could get him suspended. Another warning sign is that that the team that knows him best, the Nets, wants to replace him after his best and first all-star season. Hmm.

On the positive side, I agree with Cam that Russell is an elite talent - truly elite. He's an elite scorer and elite passer. He's also a good rebounder for his position. He was an allstar last season at age 23 and is on an upward trajectory based on his NBA stats. His age, position and offensive skill set would make him a great fit with KAT.

As for his defense, there are current and former NBA players already in or headed to the basketball hall of fame who are or were mediocre defenders at best - Barkley is one who comes to mind from the past and James Harden is one who comes to mind among today's stars. And teams can obviously contend for championships with great offensive players who aren't good defensively. But character issues aside, my concern is that we'd be pairing Russell with another defensively suspect allstar, KAT. We can build a championship contender around two offensively gifted suspect defenders, but I question whether we can do so with two such players.

Ultimately, I come down reluctantly on Cam's side because I don't see anyone else we can bring in as that second elite player at a complementary position who is close to KAT's age and able to grow and develop along with him. Russell has the ability to be a good defender with his wingspan, IQ and lateral movement. Draft scouting reports generally agreed he had the potential to be a good defender. The rap on him was his defensive effort. I guess that rap in and of itself is a red flag. I hate seeing anything negative about a young player's effort level. But perhaps if he'd give up weed his defensive effort would go up. :)

We'll see. it would appear that Russell and the Lakers have a mutual interest in making him the Lakers' starting PG next season. And apparently the Knicks remain a possibility. So getting him here isn't anything close to certain. If he ends up signing with the Lakers or Knicks, we might conclude in a couple years that the Wolves dodged a bullet.

[WildWolf2813]

I don't think Russell is a realistic option.

At this point, I don't think they should do anything else mind blowing. This is still a team that in all likelihood won't make the playoffs. I don't think they should part with future firsts to clear cap space at the moment.

I'd still offer Angel Delgado 3 years $9 mil and see if the Clippers match. Sign Dragan Bender to a 1 year $2.5 mil deal and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot to a 1 year vet minimum. I can see this team bringing Jones back at some cost

Towns /Dieng /Bender
Covington /Delgado or Green /Bates-Diop
Wiggins /Reynolds /TLC
Culver /Okogie /Nowell
Teague /Jones

If Delgado is matched, plan B would be to offer JaMychal Green a 2 year deal at $7 mil per season

Reid on a two-way deal, Battle on a Exhibit 10


The rotation would be 9 deep with Towns, Dieng, RoCo, Green or Delgado, Wiggins, Culver, Okogie, Teague, and Jones

Are you a Seton Hall fan? If not, I have no idea why you're championing for Angel Delgado. The guy played almost as many NBA minutes as you did last year and yet somehow he's worth $9M total from you? He's a two-way contract at best right now.

Did you see his G League numbers? Everything he did there fits what we need. Besides, he's an RFA, so it might take that to get him off LA. I see a lot of Montrezl Harrell in his game and keep it mind it wasn't like Harrell immediately burst onto the scene. It took time and opportunity that he found in LA. I want this team to be forward thinking and be one step ahead of other teams when it comes to finding the right players and developing them. With the numbers he put up in G League, there's something there to be unlocked.

[Monster]

Cam and Q - Great debate between you guys on Russell. You're both right about Russell.

On the negative side, I'll add concern about his character as reflected in his recent weed citation. There was snitch-gate in LA, which give me some pause. However, that can be chalked up mainly to immaturity as a 20-year old rookie. But his weed possession in May, on top of his earlier antics in LA, concerns me. This isn't about whether weed should be legal or not. It's about judgment and the importance of weed in his life. Regarding his judgment, weed is still illegal in NY and most states; yet he had it in his possession in a NY airport and thought he could get away with taking it through an airport in a coffee can. That definitely calls his judgment into question and it suggests a troubling level of arrogance. I read an article recently on in which an NBA official referred to Russell as a Diva. Apparently, weed is so important to him, he had to have it with him on the plane to wherever he was going. Like most, I've smoke weed. I happen to believe the effects if smoked a lot reduce drive and intensity, two things essential to being an elite NBA player. But put that effect aside, the fact remains that weed is on the NBA's forbidden substance list and testing positive for it could get him suspended. Another warning sign is that that the team that knows him best, the Nets, wants to replace him after his best and first all-star season. Hmm.

On the positive side, I agree with Cam that Russell is an elite talent - truly elite. He's an elite scorer and elite passer. He's also a good rebounder for his position. He was an allstar last season at age 23 and is on an upward trajectory based on his NBA stats. His age, position and offensive skill set would make him a great fit with KAT.

As for his defense, there are current and former NBA players already in or headed to the basketball hall of fame who are or were mediocre defenders at best - Barkley is one who comes to mind from the past and James Harden is one who comes to mind among today's stars. And teams can obviously contend for championships with great offensive players who aren't good defensively. But character issues aside, my concern is that we'd be pairing Russell with another defensively suspect allstar, KAT. We can build a championship contender around two offensively gifted suspect defenders, but I question whether we can do so with two such players.

Ultimately, I come down reluctantly on Cam's side because I don't see anyone else we can bring in as that second elite player at a complementary position who is close to KAT's age and able to grow and develop along with him. Russell has the ability to be a good defender with his wingspan, IQ and lateral movement. Draft scouting reports generally agreed he had the potential to be a good defender. The rap on him was his defensive effort. I guess that rap in and of itself is a red flag. I hate seeing anything negative about a young player's effort level. But perhaps if he'd give up weed his defensive effort would go up. :)

We'll see. it would appear that Russell and the Lakers have a mutual interest in making him the Lakers' starting PG next season. And apparently the Knicks remain a possibility. So getting him here isn't anything close to certain. If he ends up signing with the Lakers or Knicks, we might conclude in a couple years that the Wolves dodged a bullet.

Lip you laid it out almost exactly how I would. I don't have much of a problem with weed in and of itself. I'm not saying it doesn't have negatives but so does alcohol which is legal. It's the decision making that is problematic. I do think the NBA seems pretty lenient when it comes to weed but still trying to roll through the airport with weed in your bag?!? Seems dumb.

Personally I think the nick young thing doesn't bother me because...nick young is an actual idiot. I'm not dismissing the thing entirely but it bothers me less.

James Harden ain't making an all NBA defensive team but his ability on that end now is far from abysmal. His ability to hold up against bigs on switches is legit. He is not a liability anymore. People talk about Curry as the weak link defensively. If you want to say he is the worst defender as a starter on a team full of very good defenders sure. Curry is at worst middle of the pack at his position and let's be honest not many PGs are actually good defensively. Remember Curry has raptor arms too skinny whatever. The guy is fine for a PG. which brings us to Russell's defense or lack thereof. He isn't some elite athlete but he has legit SG length. This isn't some undersized skinny Steve Nash or under 6' guy or something. There are plenty of physical tools there for him to become at least average or at least not a liability especially in the playoffs. So the question is whether or not he gets it or has the skill or cares. This year he played 81 games for a Nets team that was 15th in defensive rating. As Wolves fans we might be irrationally giddy to be that average defensively that's how bad we have been on that end. It's pretty rare to have a PG type that's a plus guy on both ends of the ball. You tend to get either or kinda average-ish with flaws. You don't find many 3 and D PGs like you have with wings. Beverly is probably the closest and his issue is you wonder if he stays healthy and he is about to turn 31 and plays a really physical game.

Ultimately I think a lot of good back and forth here. I'm still wanting Russell but a max contract (3rd on this team although that certainly could change) for a guy with some legit uncertainty/issues gives me a bad feeling. Sometimes you do have to gamble though.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I just think we can improve with smart, cheaper signings. There seems to be a market inefficiency out there with defenders, meaning we can get a good return on investment on those assets versus blowing yet another huge wad of money on a player that just isn't that great yet and where defense isn't a big priority. That is by far our #1 problem as a team. As long as KAT is healthy, we'll always be an upper half offense.

[Porckchop]

Could Horford and Towns work in the same lineup? It's not realistic but he's the type of veteran I'd love to see on this team . If there was a way to rid ourselves of Gorgi and Teagues contracts Id go after him and Russell. Maybe pay some luxury tax.

Russell
Culver/Wiggins
Covington
Towns
Horford