DLO

[Lipoli390]

Monster - There are definitely some cautionary flags associated with Russell. He came off as sort of a punk with his teammates with the Lakers and looked like a bust in the making as a player. After apparently turning things around with the Nets he gets cited for weed possession last month. On the court, he's always had great promise offensively and put up good numbers last season on that end of the floor. But his defense remains highly suspect.

I'm not sure it's a matter of paying him $20 million versus $23 million. I think the issue is whether he's worth anything in that vicinity for 4 years, which is probably what it would take to sign him. Either way, we'd have 3 contracts of $20 + for the next 4 years - all of them escalating each year. Only one of those 3 has proven himself to be a reliable all star caliber player. It's even worse if we have to give up any first round picks or any of our more talented young guys like Saric, Okogie or even KBD.

It's exciting to think that our front office might actually be thinking big. And giving up Saric and a couple 2nd round picks to get a 23-year old talent like Russell makes a lot more sense than giving up LaVine, Dunn and the 7th pick to get Butler who didn't align well by age or temperament with our young core. At this point, we have to trust the judgment of this new executive team. I never trusted Thibodeau because he'd never even worked in a front office and didn't put together any sort of worthwhile front office team around him. And in his dual role as head coach, you knew he'd eventually take the short-horizon view. Rosas has impressed me so far with his demeanor and with the hiring decisions he's made to date. I hope Rosas and his team show good judgment when it comes to trades and picks this summer.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'm not sure it's a matter of paying him $20 million versus $23 million. I think the issue is whether he's worth anything in that vicinity for 4 years, which is probably what it would take to sign him. Either way, we'd have 3 contracts of $20 + for the next 4 years - all of them escalating each year. Only one of those 3 has proven himself to be a reliable all star caliber player. It's even worse if we have to give up any first round picks or any of our more talented young guys like Saric, Okogie or even KBD.

Lip, D'Angelo Russell was [deservingly] an All-Star last year at the ripe age of 22. Like, that actually happened already. Karl-Anthony Towns is obviously the All-Star you were referring to with Andrew Wiggins being the only one of the three that would wrongfully be making $20-plus million per year. He seems like a good kid, but on the court he's a bum. We cannot get out of Wiggins' contract easily, if at all, but Towns and Russell would be a formidable young duo to build around and even better is that they'd compliment each other on and off the court.

For those that aren't quite sure of how good Russell was last year: In just 30.1 MPG, he averaged 21.1 PPG, 7.0 APG, 3.9 RPG, and 1.1 SPG on 48.2% from 2P, 36.9% from 3P, and 78.0% from FT. Oh, and he played and started in 81 games. He's also on upward trajectory and as already stated is 22 years old. Pay the man. He's earned that money and also has a pretty good chance at getting better.

[Lipoli390]

I'm not sure it's a matter of paying him $20 million versus $23 million. I think the issue is whether he's worth anything in that vicinity for 4 years, which is probably what it would take to sign him. Either way, we'd have 3 contracts of $20 + for the next 4 years - all of them escalating each year. Only one of those 3 has proven himself to be a reliable all star caliber player. It's even worse if we have to give up any first round picks or any of our more talented young guys like Saric, Okogie or even KBD.

Lip, D'Angelo Russell was [deservingly] an All-Star last year at the ripe age of 22. Like, that actually happened already. Karl-Anthony Towns is obviously the All-Star you were referring to with Andrew Wiggins being the only one of the three that would wrongfully be making $20-plus million per year. He seems like a good kid, but on the court he's a bum. We cannot get out of Wiggins' contract easily, if at all, but Towns and Russell would be a formidable young duo to build around and even better is that they'd compliment each other on and off the court.

For those that aren't quite sure of how good Russell was last year: In just 30.1 MPG, he averaged 21.1 PPG, 7.0 APG, 3.9 RPG, and 1.1 SPG on 48.2% from 2P, 36.9% from 3P, and 78.0% from FT. Oh, and he played and started in 81 games. He's also on upward trajectory and as already stated is 22 years old. Pay the man. He's earned that money and also has a pretty good chance at getting better.

Thanks, Cam. I always appreciate your perspective, which you always support with facts and analysis.

You're right that the non all-star caliber player I was referring to was Wiggins. I know that Russell had what is fairly described as an all star caliber season in 2018-19. But my use of the word reliable was the key because that was the only season at that level for him so far. My concern stems from his locker room issues early and now his recent weed possession citation. On its face none of that sounds too bad, but I just have a gut feeling that there's a deeper problem there. Hence my misgivings. I'm also concerned about his defense. I haven't looked at his defensive stats, but my sense is that he's not a good defender. That troubles me given our need for significant improvement on that end of the court.

Nevertheless, he's very talented, the right age to pair with KAT, plays a position of need and seems to be on any upward trajectory. He's definitely a guy I could see as that second all-star caliber player we need to pair with KAT. So I'm a bit torn on this. But in the end, I think I'd welcome signing Russell to a big contract, so long as we don't give up too much to get him.

[KG4Ever]

I'm not sure it's a matter of paying him $20 million versus $23 million. I think the issue is whether he's worth anything in that vicinity for 4 years, which is probably what it would take to sign him. Either way, we'd have 3 contracts of $20 + for the next 4 years - all of them escalating each year. Only one of those 3 has proven himself to be a reliable all star caliber player. It's even worse if we have to give up any first round picks or any of our more talented young guys like Saric, Okogie or even KBD.

Lip, D'Angelo Russell was [deservingly] an All-Star last year at the ripe age of 22. Like, that actually happened already. Karl-Anthony Towns is obviously the All-Star you were referring to with Andrew Wiggins being the only one of the three that would wrongfully be making $20-plus million per year. He seems like a good kid, but on the court he's a bum. We cannot get out of Wiggins' contract easily, if at all, but Towns and Russell would be a formidable young duo to build around and even better is that they'd compliment each other on and off the court.

For those that aren't quite sure of how good Russell was last year: In just 30.1 MPG, he averaged 21.1 PPG, 7.0 APG, 3.9 RPG, and 1.1 SPG on 48.2% from 2P, 36.9% from 3P, and 78.0% from FT. Oh, and he played and started in 81 games. He's also on upward trajectory and as already stated is 22 years old. Pay the man. He's earned that money and also has a pretty good chance at getting better.

"Deservingly"-you must define it differently than me. Defensive sieve, inefficient volume scorer, only played in all star game because of injuries and would never stiff an allstar team in the west. Character issues, selfish and has his best year in a contract year after he was coached up by one of the best coaches in game and played on a team where they could mask his defensive shortcomings. Giving up draft picks to clear space and paying him over $20 million is very very risky and could set us back another four years or however long it would take to dump another oversized contract.

[KG4Ever]

"and as already stated is 22 years old."

Actually, he's 23.

[BloopOracle]

Russell has one of the prettiest and highest arcing floaters in NBA history, if that's not a good enough reason to sign him I don't know what is

[Coolbreeze44]

I'm not sure it's a matter of paying him $20 million versus $23 million. I think the issue is whether he's worth anything in that vicinity for 4 years, which is probably what it would take to sign him. Either way, we'd have 3 contracts of $20 + for the next 4 years - all of them escalating each year. Only one of those 3 has proven himself to be a reliable all star caliber player. It's even worse if we have to give up any first round picks or any of our more talented young guys like Saric, Okogie or even KBD.

Lip, D'Angelo Russell was [deservingly] an All-Star last year at the ripe age of 22. Like, that actually happened already. Karl-Anthony Towns is obviously the All-Star you were referring to with Andrew Wiggins being the only one of the three that would wrongfully be making $20-plus million per year. He seems like a good kid, but on the court he's a bum. We cannot get out of Wiggins' contract easily, if at all, but Towns and Russell would be a formidable young duo to build around and even better is that they'd compliment each other on and off the court.

For those that aren't quite sure of how good Russell was last year: In just 30.1 MPG, he averaged 21.1 PPG, 7.0 APG, 3.9 RPG, and 1.1 SPG on 48.2% from 2P, 36.9% from 3P, and 78.0% from FT. Oh, and he played and started in 81 games. He's also on upward trajectory and as already stated is 22 years old. Pay the man. He's earned that money and also has a pretty good chance at getting better.

"Deservingly"-you must define it differently than me. Defensive sieve, inefficient volume scorer, only played in all star game because of injuries and would never stiff an allstar team in the west. Character issues, selfish and has his best year in a contract year after he was coached up by one of the best coaches in game and played on a team where they could mask his defensive shortcomings. Giving up draft picks to clear space and paying him over $20 million is very very risky and could set us back another four years or however long it would take to dump another oversized contract.

I think you have to be a little leery of someone who would have been passed on by two teams before his 24th birthday. I though he was very good last year, but not sure that tells the whole story as you point out.

[Lipoli390]

I'm not sure it's a matter of paying him $20 million versus $23 million. I think the issue is whether he's worth anything in that vicinity for 4 years, which is probably what it would take to sign him. Either way, we'd have 3 contracts of $20 + for the next 4 years - all of them escalating each year. Only one of those 3 has proven himself to be a reliable all star caliber player. It's even worse if we have to give up any first round picks or any of our more talented young guys like Saric, Okogie or even KBD.

Lip, D'Angelo Russell was [deservingly] an All-Star last year at the ripe age of 22. Like, that actually happened already. Karl-Anthony Towns is obviously the All-Star you were referring to with Andrew Wiggins being the only one of the three that would wrongfully be making $20-plus million per year. He seems like a good kid, but on the court he's a bum. We cannot get out of Wiggins' contract easily, if at all, but Towns and Russell would be a formidable young duo to build around and even better is that they'd compliment each other on and off the court.

For those that aren't quite sure of how good Russell was last year: In just 30.1 MPG, he averaged 21.1 PPG, 7.0 APG, 3.9 RPG, and 1.1 SPG on 48.2% from 2P, 36.9% from 3P, and 78.0% from FT. Oh, and he played and started in 81 games. He's also on upward trajectory and as already stated is 22 years old. Pay the man. He's earned that money and also has a pretty good chance at getting better.

"Deservingly"-you must define it differently than me. Defensive sieve, inefficient volume scorer, only played in all star game because of injuries and would never stiff an allstar team in the west. Character issues, selfish and has his best year in a contract year after he was coached up by one of the best coaches in game and played on a team where they could mask his defensive shortcomings. Giving up draft picks to clear space and paying him over $20 million is very very risky and could set us back another four years or however long it would take to dump another oversized contract.

I think you have to be a little leery of someone who would have been passed on by two teams before his 24th birthday. I though he was very good last year, but not sure that tells the whole story as you point out.

And that's my concern. I think there's something else there that we should be leery of. The Lakers actively sought to move him and it would appear that the Nets have no interest in keeping him. Note that no one knows a player better than the teams the player plays for. My preference would be to draft well this June and develop both Okogie and KDB. Granted there are only two or maybe three obviously elite players in this draft (Zion, Morant and maybe Barrett). But it's a deep draft in the sense that there are a lot of talented players likely to be available at #11 and perhaps even as low as 43 who have a lot of potential. I'm becoming more an more intrigued by Nic Claxton. I think that guy has star potential. He has terrific shooting form and is an amazingly good ball handler for his size and position. He seems equally adept going right and left, can use both hands and has a nice change of speed and direction on dribble drives. He has excellent shooting form as well. And of course, he was a very good shot blocker as a college Sophomore. He's rising fast on my own draft board.

[Monster]

I'm not sure it's a matter of paying him $20 million versus $23 million. I think the issue is whether he's worth anything in that vicinity for 4 years, which is probably what it would take to sign him. Either way, we'd have 3 contracts of $20 + for the next 4 years - all of them escalating each year. Only one of those 3 has proven himself to be a reliable all star caliber player. It's even worse if we have to give up any first round picks or any of our more talented young guys like Saric, Okogie or even KBD.

Lip, D'Angelo Russell was [deservingly] an All-Star last year at the ripe age of 22. Like, that actually happened already. Karl-Anthony Towns is obviously the All-Star you were referring to with Andrew Wiggins being the only one of the three that would wrongfully be making $20-plus million per year. He seems like a good kid, but on the court he's a bum. We cannot get out of Wiggins' contract easily, if at all, but Towns and Russell would be a formidable young duo to build around and even better is that they'd compliment each other on and off the court.

For those that aren't quite sure of how good Russell was last year: In just 30.1 MPG, he averaged 21.1 PPG, 7.0 APG, 3.9 RPG, and 1.1 SPG on 48.2% from 2P, 36.9% from 3P, and 78.0% from FT. Oh, and he played and started in 81 games. He's also on upward trajectory and as already stated is 22 years old. Pay the man. He's earned that money and also has a pretty good chance at getting better.

"Deservingly"-you must define it differently than me. Defensive sieve, inefficient volume scorer, only played in all star game because of injuries and would never stiff an allstar team in the west. Character issues, selfish and has his best year in a contract year after he was coached up by one of the best coaches in game and played on a team where they could mask his defensive shortcomings. Giving up draft picks to clear space and paying him over $20 million is very very risky and could set us back another four years or however long it would take to dump another oversized contract.

I think you have to be a little leery of someone who would have been passed on by two teams before his 24th birthday. I though he was very good last year, but not sure that tells the whole story as you point out.

And that's my concern. I think there's something else there that we should be leery of. The Lakers actively sought to move him and it would appear that the Nets have no interest in keeping him. Note that no one knows a player better than the teams the player plays for. My preference would be to draft well this June and develop both Okogie and KDB. Granted there are only two or maybe three obviously elite players in this draft (Zion, Morant and maybe Barrett). But it's a deep draft in the sense that there are a lot of talented players likely to be available at #11 and perhaps even as low as 43 who have a lot of potential. I'm becoming more an more intrigued by Nic Claxton. I think that guy has star potential. He has terrific shooting form and is an amazingly good ball handler for his size and position. He seems equally adept going right and left, can use both hands and has a nice change of speed and direction on dribble drives. He has excellent shooting form as well. And of course, he was a very good shot blocker as a college Sophomore. He's rising fast on my own draft board.

I'm excited about the possibility of Russell but there are legit concerns. However let's not forget the situation Russell was in with the Lakers.

Year 1 Rookie PG or at the very least lead guard that had to share the spotlight with a Kobe going away show. Also the talent on that team (in terms of winning games) was kinda terrible. Byron Scott was the coach who absolutely catered to Kobe.

Year 2. Walton first year as coach a pretty young roster overall. Every guard on the team likes to handle the ball plus Julius Randle. Russell missed 19 games and the Lakers won 5 of them. Russell didn't exactly light he world on fire and other stuff went down this season right?

Year 3. Lakers draft PG of the future #2 overall Lonzo Ball. Russell and Ball May have actually been able to play together BUT the Lakers were trying to get out from under bad contracts and made the move to get rid of Mozgov's bad deal to Brooklynn. Was Russell a guy that had a TON of value at that point? No but it's not like they just gave him up because they didn't like him at all. It worked out kinda conveniently. If Ball wasn't there I don't know that they would have been so willing to move Russell. Meanwhile the pick they got back in that deal ended up being Kuzma. Russell plays in 48 games for the Nets including fewer minutes but a few things like assists 3's taken per 36 go up.

Year 4. Has some injury issues early and struggles the first month or 2 not unlike his buddy Towns. After a slow start and getting healthy he puts up some pretty good numbers the rest of the way.

Just for fun...these players have been in different situations and at this point different trajectories but think about Russell's career compared to Wiggins. Wiggins best season was probably more than anything Russell has ever done in a season. Wiggins got the playing time and got to do whatever he wanted early in his career where as Russell has always had a few other guys to lose minutes to for whatever reason (some of it could have been him). Keeping this all in perspective (playing time health etc) Russell has taken 714 FTs in his regular season career. Wiggins had back to back years of 500+ FT attempts. Wiggins used to literally used to get to the line like a star.

Ultimately I would like to take a chance on Russell BUT I'm not all in on him it's dependent on what we have to give up in terms of assets and what we have to pay him. The comp that sounds great is we get something close to Harden which everyone recognizes is dreaming. Instead we could end up with the next Reggie Jackson which is not great. I was right about Harden I thought he would be a Star right away. I thought Reggie Jackson was gonna be pretty good for a number of years and for a year or so he was a nice player for the Pistons. After that it feels like he hasn't helped them move forward much.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

Instead of paying picks and maxing out dlo, why not go after dinwiddie instead?

Great contract, same age group as kat, much better defender, and less ball dominant.

Hes got 2+1 left. With him and cov under great contracts, the dieng and wiggs contracts don't hurt as much.