ROY watch

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Wolvesfan21
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ROY watch

Post by Wolvesfan21 »

Ball is the heavy favorite to win ROY now. I don't bet but Edwards might be undervalued now at 8-1.

Ball - 1/2 (bet two to win 1)
Halliburton- 6/1
Ant- 8/1
Wiseman- 8/1

Rest 18/1 or lower.

Should the entire board fire ourselves for being idiots? Actually I think I had Halliburton number two on my list so I would have traded down and took him.
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BloopOracle
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Re: ROY watch

Post by BloopOracle »

I don't think we need to fire ourselves, it's only been 10 games. If you look through the rookie thread we have people initially freaking out because of wiseman's great first game, then a couple games later we are all patting ourselves on the back for getting Edwards and knowing that ball was a bust. Now just a few more games people are panicking that we made the wrong pick and that Ball is a transcendent future star, I think we just need to slow our roll a little bit lol


That being said in a couple years if lamelo turns into a star we are all going to look like fucking idiots, I don't remember a single person on this board that had ball as their number two choice let alone their number one.
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Wolvesfan21
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Re: ROY watch

Post by Wolvesfan21 »

That's what I'm thinking as well. Those odds seem kind of crazy to me considering how many games left. Ball could fall off or even get injured while a guy like Ant whose had a few bad outings all of a sudden light it up. The Wolves losing can have an effect as well. KAT's cast on his hand will come off sometime as well as he gets back to full strength. Rubio can't play any worse, but his bad play could allow Edwards more PT to show off too. I don't see how Rubio can still be left out there when he's putting up 4 points and 4 TO's every game.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: ROY watch

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

Look at this efficiency.

54% fg
52% 3fg on 5 attempts per game
57 assists
13 TOs

Double figure scoring in 9 of 10 games... and 8 in a row. It's a small sample size... and it can't be sustainable... otherwise it would be arguably the most efficient season in NBA history... for ANY player.

But it's almost equally rare for a rookie to come out of the gates with a smart, efficient game without being able to sustain some semblance of that moving forward. Volume stats can be misleading. This sort of efficiency/consistency can't really be faked.

Haliburton being that far behind Ball with the oddsmakers can only be chalked up to narrative/popularity/visibility.
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kekgeek
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Re: ROY watch

Post by kekgeek »

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Look at this efficiency.

54% fg
52% 3fg on 5 attempts per game
57 assists
13 TOs

Double figure scoring in 9 of 10 games... and 8 in a row. It's a small sample size... and it can't be sustainable... otherwise it would be arguably the most efficient season in NBA history... for ANY player.

But it's almost equally rare for a rookie to come out of the gates with a smart, efficient game without being able to sustain some semblance of that moving forward. Volume stats can be misleading. This sort of efficiency/consistency can't really be faked.

Haliburton being that far behind Ball with the oddsmakers can only be chalked up to narrative/popularity/visibility.


Ball is on pace to average 12pts 7rebs 6asts there has been 3 other NBA players to do this in NBA history in their rookie year. Oscar Robertson, Ben Simmons and Magic Johnson.

I've watched a good amount of ball early in the season and I think I was wrong about him he is such an elite passer and his vision in great. I will say though it all comes down to his shot. I watched the 1st half yesterday and he had 2 shots were he shot the ball just inside of the logo and missed both. He is sort of Corey Brewer ish on D. He gambles a lot and he isn't that great man to man D.

He is so much better though on were I thought he would be as a player and props to him.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: ROY watch

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

kekgeek1 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Look at this efficiency.

54% fg
52% 3fg on 5 attempts per game
57 assists
13 TOs

Double figure scoring in 9 of 10 games... and 8 in a row. It's a small sample size... and it can't be sustainable... otherwise it would be arguably the most efficient season in NBA history... for ANY player.

But it's almost equally rare for a rookie to come out of the gates with a smart, efficient game without being able to sustain some semblance of that moving forward. Volume stats can be misleading. This sort of efficiency/consistency can't really be faked.

Haliburton being that far behind Ball with the oddsmakers can only be chalked up to narrative/popularity/visibility.


Ball is on pace to average 12pts 7rebs 6asts there has been 3 other NBA players to do this in NBA history in their rookie year. Oscar Robertson, Ben Simmons and Magic Johnson.

I've watched a good amount of ball early in the season and I think I was wrong about him he is such an elite passer and his vision in great. I will say though it all comes down to his shot. I watched the 1st half yesterday and he had 2 shots were he shot the ball just inside of the logo and missed both. He is sort of Corey Brewer ish on D. He gambles a lot and he isn't that great man to man D.

He is so much better though on were I thought he would be as a player and props to him.



Yeah. My post wasn't to rip Ball. Only to show that Haliburton might deserve more recognition from the betting circles.

And... those numbers are sorta subjective, right?

If the criteria was 16 pts / 6 reb / 6 assists... Michael Carter Williams would be there... Ball would not.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: ROY watch

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

Abe, you were absolutely right about Haliburton. Great call.

I was dead wrong about Ball - I would have hated that pick, but now turns out he could be a franchise-level talent or at least a really good # 2. I was not wrong about Edwards - he's looking more ineffective by the game and has done very little to dispel the same tendencies he showed at Georgia. Likeable kid, fun attitude, mouth watering upside, but in the end not a very productive player so far.

Wiseman is somewhere in between - not hitting the ball out of the park like Ball, but also showing that he has a very high floor.
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FNG
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Re: ROY watch

Post by FNG »

kekgeek1 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Look at this efficiency.

54% fg
52% 3fg on 5 attempts per game
57 assists
13 TOs

Double figure scoring in 9 of 10 games... and 8 in a row. It's a small sample size... and it can't be sustainable... otherwise it would be arguably the most efficient season in NBA history... for ANY player.

But it's almost equally rare for a rookie to come out of the gates with a smart, efficient game without being able to sustain some semblance of that moving forward. Volume stats can be misleading. This sort of efficiency/consistency can't really be faked.

Haliburton being that far behind Ball with the oddsmakers can only be chalked up to narrative/popularity/visibility.


Ball is on pace to average 12pts 7rebs 6asts there has been 3 other NBA players to do this in NBA history in their rookie year. Oscar Robertson, Ben Simmons and Magic Johnson.

I've watched a good amount of ball early in the season and I think I was wrong about him he is such an elite passer and his vision in great. I will say though it all comes down to his shot. I watched the 1st half yesterday and he had 2 shots were he shot the ball just inside of the logo and missed both. He is sort of Corey Brewer ish on D. He gambles a lot and he isn't that great man to man D.

He is so much better though on were I thought he would be as a player and props to him.


Yep, 12/7/6 is an extraordinary line for a rookie. But while not the rebounder Ball is, Haliburton is scoring a point more per game with only 1/2 fewer assists per game. More importantly he is turning the ball over less, playing superior defense, and sporting an absurdly good eFG% of 69% (Ball is only at 48%)! I don't disagree with the Vegas oddsmakers because Haliburton is putting up his numbers in a quieter fashion, but there's no question who is helping their team more right now and who I would want as my PG.

If the season ended today Ball would be ROY. If the season ended today Haliburton should be ROY.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: ROY watch

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

Q12543 wrote:Abe, you were absolutely right about Haliburton. Great call.

I was dead wrong about Ball - I would have hated that pick, but now turns out he could be a franchise-level talent or at least a really good # 2. I was not wrong about Edwards - he's looking more ineffective by the game and has done very little to dispel the same tendencies he showed at Georgia. Likeable kid, fun attitude, mouth watering upside, but in the end not a very productive player so far.

Wiseman is somewhere in between - not hitting the ball out of the park like Ball, but also showing that he has a very high floor.



Yeah. I'm not sure what to think about Wiseman yet. I never knew with that guy. I was in the camp who questioned his fit though, right or wrong.

I knew even less about Ball. But I thought the family was a gimmick back in the day. One thing I saw yesterday about Ball shed a lot of light on him...

He only played in 12 NBL games. And the first 6 were gawd awful.

Something like 12/6/6 on 30% shooting. I think those got the most publicity, as we'd expect them to. But the next 6 looked entirely different. Something like 22/9/9 and 40% shooting.

Nobody knows how the players in this draft shake out. But the rookie season matters. Even the first 10 games matter. We can sit here and keep telling each other how young Edwards is and how much more he can improve... like with every other prospect the Wolves have had. But we can't lose sight that EVERY other rookie can make the same claims.

And if some are already so far ahead of Edwards... well... there's a lot that has to happen in the Wolves favor to have made the right choice.
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kekgeek
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Re: ROY watch

Post by kekgeek »

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
kekgeek1 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Look at this efficiency.

54% fg
52% 3fg on 5 attempts per game
57 assists
13 TOs

Double figure scoring in 9 of 10 games... and 8 in a row. It's a small sample size... and it can't be sustainable... otherwise it would be arguably the most efficient season in NBA history... for ANY player.

But it's almost equally rare for a rookie to come out of the gates with a smart, efficient game without being able to sustain some semblance of that moving forward. Volume stats can be misleading. This sort of efficiency/consistency can't really be faked.

Haliburton being that far behind Ball with the oddsmakers can only be chalked up to narrative/popularity/visibility.


Ball is on pace to average 12pts 7rebs 6asts there has been 3 other NBA players to do this in NBA history in their rookie year. Oscar Robertson, Ben Simmons and Magic Johnson.

I've watched a good amount of ball early in the season and I think I was wrong about him he is such an elite passer and his vision in great. I will say though it all comes down to his shot. I watched the 1st half yesterday and he had 2 shots were he shot the ball just inside of the logo and missed both. He is sort of Corey Brewer ish on D. He gambles a lot and he isn't that great man to man D.

He is so much better though on were I thought he would be as a player and props to him.



Yeah. My post wasn't to rip Ball. Only to show that Haliburton might deserve more recognition from the betting circles.

And... those numbers are sorta subjective, right?

If the criteria was 16 pts / 6 reb / 6 assists... Michael Carter Williams would be there... Ball would not.


I wasn't trying to rip you. Correct the numbers are subjective. I argued with a buddy who hates ball and couple games ago and ball was averaging 13/6/6 and MCW was on that list
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