The Tank is on

[BloopOracle]

Why the hell did cam only get 3 minutes

[mrhockey89]

So I'm a bit on the tank bandwagon to jump a couple teams, but I think it's a bit over the top to suggest it's the difference between changing our team's future or not.

All this team needs to do is to make the right decisions in the draft, and THAT is what can turn this team around.

Just think...the year we took Shabazz and Dieng, we could have instead taken the Greek Freak and Rudy Gobert instead.... Let's think about how different things look if this team had Giannis, Towns, and Gobert as their cornerstones, rather than being stuck with the DIeng contract and the remnants of what was Shabazz.

[kekgeek]

So I'm a bit on the tank bandwagon to jump a couple teams, but I think it's a bit over the top to suggest it's the difference between changing our team's future or not.

All this team needs to do is to make the right decisions in the draft, and THAT is what can turn this team around.

Just think...the year we took Shabazz and Dieng, we could have instead taken the Greek Freak and Rudy Gobert instead.... Let's think about how different things look if this team had Giannis, Towns, and Gobert as their cornerstones, rather than being stuck with the DIeng contract and the remnants of what was Shabazz.

You are 100% right. There is a stat of the top 4 teams this year. Warriors, Nuggets, Raptors, Bucks. Only 4 players of the 20 starters were drafted in the Top 10 (Curry, Durant, Lopez, Murray).

We just need to find the right pieces and draft better

[Lipoli390]

So I'm a bit on the tank bandwagon to jump a couple teams, but I think it's a bit over the top to suggest it's the difference between changing our team's future or not.

All this team needs to do is to make the right decisions in the draft, and THAT is what can turn this team around.

Just think...the year we took Shabazz and Dieng, we could have instead taken the Greek Freak and Rudy Gobert instead.... Let's think about how different things look if this team had Giannis, Towns, and Gobert as their cornerstones, rather than being stuck with the DIeng contract and the remnants of what was Shabazz.

You are 100% right. There is a stat of the top 4 teams this year. Warriors, Nuggets, Raptors, Bucks. Only 4 players of the 20 starters were drafted in the Top 10 (Curry, Durant, Lopez, Murray).

We just need to find the right pieces and draft better

I agree we need to make the right draft decisions. But it helps to be in a position to make the right decisions. We were in a position to draft CJ McCollum in 2013. That was key to getting two picks in return. One of the two picks was barely high enough to take Giannis, but the Wolves made a bad decision taking Bazz instead. If the pick we used on Bazz had been two picks lower we would not have even had a chance at drafting Giannis. A few more wins in 2015 and we wouldn't have KAT but instead would probably have Okafor.

It's pretty simple. The higher the pick, the more selections you have to choose from when exercising what you hope is good judgment. It's not one or the other. The higher the pick, the more options you have. But then, of course, you also need to exercise good judgment when choosing among your options.

But my soft-tank mantra these past 4 weeks isn't solely about lottery position. My main point has actually been that the Wolves should allocate playing time primarily to the young players, that is, those most likely to be here long term with KAT. My assumption is that we'd lose more games as a result the rest of this season. But my main rationale for playing the young guys to the exclusion of Rose, Teague, Bayless, Tolliver and Gibson is the need to take every opportunity to develop and evaluate the players most likely to be part of the longer-term horizon of this team built around KAT. And as Cam indicated, we should have traded one or all of those vets at the trade deadline for more assets - either draft picks (even if only 2nd round) and possibly younger players with upside. If the Wolves would have taken the path I suggested weeks ago and we ended up winning even more games, I'd be fine with that because we'd be winning with players who can be viewed realistically as significant parts of the Wolves long-term horizon with KAT.

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

Yep, the most important part is allocating more minutes to the young guys. Moving up a few spots in the draft is just a likely secondary benefit. Even if we didn't have a FRP this summer, the right thing to do at this point is to play all the young guys to see what we have and develop them. I'm totally good with the young guys playing well and leading us to some wins down the stretch here... but I would have a problem if Gibson, Covington, Rose and Teague were out there playing regular minutes to win meaningless games and not only hurt our draft position, but more importantly not let the young guys get the time to develop.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I'm in Abe's camp on this one. When has tanking ever served us well? It's contributed to the pervasive culture of losing this franchise has cultivated.

And when you have guys locked into rookie contracts, why do we need to "see what we've got"? Okogie has been part of the regular rotation for a long time, so check him off the list. KBD was getting plenty of playing time in the G-league. We could "see what he's got" down there. And we certainly don't need to see more Bayless, Tolliver, and Dieng to know what those guys each bring.

We'd be much better off competing hard every game and winning more games, even if it doesn't yield a playoff berth. It's one thing if you already have a winning culture to throw in the towel on a season. It's another when you find yourself doing it every...single....year. May be actually trying hard until the bitter end will develop better habits and a higher bar for all involved.

[Lipoli390]

I'm in Abe's camp on this one. When has tanking ever served us well? It's contributed to the pervasive culture of losing this franchise has cultivated.

And when you have guys locked into rookie contracts, why do we need to "see what we've got"? Okogie has been part of the regular rotation for a long time, so check him off the list. KBD was getting plenty of playing time in the G-league. We could "see what he's got" down there. And we certainly don't need to see more Bayless, Tolliver, and Dieng to know what those guys each bring.

We'd be much better off competing hard every game and winning more games, even if it doesn't yield a playoff berth. It's one thing if you already have a winning culture to throw in the towel on a season. It's another when you find yourself doing it every...single....year. May be actually trying hard until the bitter end will develop better habits and a higher bar for all involved.

Trying hard is different from who gets playing time. I want the guys on the court to play hard and I expect the coaches to demand that they play hard. Actually, young guys are perhaps more apt to play hard with no hope of making the playoffs because they're still thrilled just to be in the NBA and trying to prove themselves. I've never suggested that the Wolves shouldh't play hard.

I'm sorry, watching film of KBD playing in the G-League doesn't give the organization much insight for evaluating him as an NBA player. Reynolds hasn't been with the Wolves long and has a limited NBA track record. And do we really know all we need to know about a rookie, Okogie, who has played 23 minutes per game for 65 games? I doubt it. And until recently we haven't had much of a chance to see Okogie or even Tyus with the starters - particularly KAT. But it's not just about evaluating these guys. It's also about developing them and there's no substitute for actual NBA game playing time. And that's true for Okogie after 65 games as well as KBD after 21 games at 15 minutes per game. There's no better time to maximize their development opportunity in actual games than the last month of the season with no chance of making the playoffs.

Winning cultures come from players and coaches who are good enough to win. The Sixers reallyvwere tanking for years and not doing it softly. They seem to have no trouble winning now. That's because their taking brought them Simmons and Embiid along with other asset they used wisely to get Harris. As for the Wolves benefitting from tanking in the past, I'd point to KAT as an example of a huge payoff from tanking. Kevin Love may have been another example. But I'll come back to Hockey's point that you also have to make smart decisions with the draft opportunities you have. Failure to have an organization good enough to take full advantage of opportunities isn't an argument against creating more opportunities. And again, I've never advocated that we lose for sake of losing. I'm advocating for playing our young guys 35 minutes a game to the exclusion of the older vets on 1 or 2 year deals who are unlikely to be around after this this season or, in Teague's case, beyond next season.

Anyway, I think we've beat this dead horse into submission. :) Maybe we can move on to discuss who will or should be making the Wolves draft decisions and other personnel decisions this summer.

[Monster]

I hadn't realized Memphis had actually been playing some decent basketball but I didn't think we had a chance to pass them in the loss column going into this game so...not a terrible win in terms of tanking. We won mostly because of guys that figure to be on the roster beyond this season. Tolliver played well. Like it was mentioned before I'm not sure why Cam didn't play more. KBD looks like a legit player. He is so long and it shows up multiple times in a game. There was one closeput he had he didn't even really hustle out there and was a stride away from the basket when he started but he ended up with a hand in the face of the guy shooting in the corner. I don't know what he will ultiatwlt become but it feels like we at least got a guy that can be a rostation player in this league which helps.

[WildWolf2813]

So I'm a bit on the tank bandwagon to jump a couple teams, but I think it's a bit over the top to suggest it's the difference between changing our team's future or not.

All this team needs to do is to make the right decisions in the draft, and THAT is what can turn this team around.

Just think...the year we took Shabazz and Dieng, we could have instead taken the Greek Freak and Rudy Gobert instead.... Let's think about how different things look if this team had Giannis, Towns, and Gobert as their cornerstones, rather than being stuck with the DIeng contract and the remnants of what was Shabazz.

You are 100% right. There is a stat of the top 4 teams this year. Warriors, Nuggets, Raptors, Bucks. Only 4 players of the 20 starters were drafted in the Top 10 (Curry, Durant, Lopez, Murray).

We just need to find the right pieces and draft better

I agree we need to make the right draft decisions. But it helps to be in a position to make the right decisions. We were in a position to draft CJ McCollum in 2013. That was key to getting two picks in return. One of the two picks was barely high enough to take Giannis, but the Wolves made a bad decision taking Bazz instead. If the pick we used on Bazz had been two picks lower we would not have even had a chance at drafting Giannis. A few more wins in 2015 and we wouldn't have KAT but instead would probably have Okafor.

It's pretty simple. The higher the pick, the more selections you have to choose from when exercising what you hope is good judgment. It's not one or the other. The higher the pick, the more options you have. But then, of course, you also need to exercise good judgment when choosing among your options.

But my soft-tank mantra these past 4 weeks isn't solely about lottery position. My main point has actually been that the Wolves should allocate playing time primarily to the young players, that is, those most likely to be here long term with KAT. My assumption is that we'd lose more games as a result the rest of this season. But my main rationale for playing the young guys to the exclusion of Rose, Teague, Bayless, Tolliver and Gibson is the need to take every opportunity to develop and evaluate the players most likely to be part of the longer-term horizon of this team built around KAT. And as Cam indicated, we should have traded one or all of those vets at the trade deadline for more assets - either draft picks (even if only 2nd round) and possibly younger players with upside. If the Wolves would have taken the path I suggested weeks ago and we ended up winning even more games, I'd be fine with that because we'd be winning with players who can be viewed realistically as significant parts of the Wolves long-term horizon with KAT.

So I'm a bit on the tank bandwagon to jump a couple teams, but I think it's a bit over the top to suggest it's the difference between changing our team's future or not.

All this team needs to do is to make the right decisions in the draft, and THAT is what can turn this team around.

Just think...the year we took Shabazz and Dieng, we could have instead taken the Greek Freak and Rudy Gobert instead.... Let's think about how different things look if this team had Giannis, Towns, and Gobert as their cornerstones, rather than being stuck with the DIeng contract and the remnants of what was Shabazz.

You are 100% right. There is a stat of the top 4 teams this year. Warriors, Nuggets, Raptors, Bucks. Only 4 players of the 20 starters were drafted in the Top 10 (Curry, Durant, Lopez, Murray).

We just need to find the right pieces and draft better

I agree we need to make the right draft decisions. But it helps to be in a position to make the right decisions. We were in a position to draft CJ McCollum in 2013. That was key to getting two picks in return. One of the two picks was barely high enough to take Giannis, but the Wolves made a bad decision taking Bazz instead. If the pick we used on Bazz had been two picks lower we would not have even had a chance at drafting Giannis. A few more wins in 2015 and we wouldn't have KAT but instead would probably have Okafor.

It's pretty simple. The higher the pick, the more selections you have to choose from when exercising what you hope is good judgment. It's not one or the other. The higher the pick, the more options you have. But then, of course, you also need to exercise good judgment when choosing among your options.

But my soft-tank mantra these past 4 weeks isn't solely about lottery position. My main point has actually been that the Wolves should allocate playing time primarily to the young players, that is, those most likely to be here long term with KAT. My assumption is that we'd lose more games as a result the rest of this season. But my main rationale for playing the young guys to the exclusion of Rose, Teague, Bayless, Tolliver and Gibson is the need to take every opportunity to develop and evaluate the players most likely to be part of the longer-term horizon of this team built around KAT. And as Cam indicated, we should have traded one or all of those vets at the trade deadline for more assets - either draft picks (even if only 2nd round) and possibly younger players with upside. If the Wolves would have taken the path I suggested weeks ago and we ended up winning even more games, I'd be fine with that because we'd be winning with players who can be viewed realistically as significant parts of the Wolves long-term horizon with KAT.

Sure you'll have more options Lip, but this team can screw it up no matter where they pick. This team will have a new GM, maybe even a new coach. Whether they pick at 9, 11, 13, 45, even after the draft is over, they have to get good players. They don't stop making good players after the 9th pick. Given where this team is, they need to really attack the UDFA market hard and find a rotational player.

[Monster]

Look back at the last few drafts at the picks at #11 and you may be a little more hopeful for this franchise getting a pretty good player.

2018 S.G. Alexander
2017 Malik Monk picked 2 spots above Donovan Mitchell
2016 Board favorite D. Sabonis.
2015 Myles Turner
2014 Doug McDermott...yes let's avoid this type of pick and instead get at least a guy like Saric who was picked at 12...Lavine was 13 and this hapless franchise picked him!

You can play the what if game all day in one way or another and the reality is the Wolves have both had bad luck moving up in the lottery or being in the wrong spot at the wrong time and flat out completely blowing picks. I'm interested in focusing on getting another good player/s with this next draft than anything else.