What will be different under Saunders?

[AbeVigodaLive]

2) Ryan obviously embraces the modern era and the 3-point shot more than his predecessor. The Wolves never took more than 35 three-pointers during the Thibs Dark Ages...last night they took 38!
3) We also seem to be improving in defending the 3-point line, and it looks like Ryan is going to make this a priority. I didn't see it in Ryan's first two games and found our perimeter defense as bad as it was under Thibs, but last night I saw a concerted effort to try to contest all threes. I challenge anyone to find one game during the Dark Ages when the Wolves took 14 more threes than their opponent! Timberwolves fans...welcome to the modern NBA!

I guess I'll take the challenge? You're wrong on your stats.

The Wolves took 45 three pointers vs. GSW earlier this season. 43 vs. Milwaukee. 41 vs. San Antonio. 40 vs. LAL.

The Spurs took exactly 14 fewer three pointers in that game.

The Wolves shot only 24 in one of the games under Saunders.



[Note: I fully expect the Wolves to shoot more than previously moving forward. From what I've heard (not my own assumptions) Saunders seems to be trying to weed out the long two pointers a bit. And, it's true that the Wolves progressively shot fewer 3s under Thibs as the season wore on. But let's see that play out before we make false claims.]

Whoops. I misread Dane Moore's tweet where he said the Wolves never took more than 35 3-pointers in a game "during Thibs' first two seasons"...didn't notice that Dane wasn't including this season. Thanks for the correction. although I still find it interesting that Ryan did something in his third game that Thibs didn't do in two years. Also thanks for taking the "14 more three pointers challenge". I will point out though that the Spurs take fewer 3-pointers than any team in the league, so we should be taking a lot more against them. I also expect the increased 3-pointer trend to continue.

No need for disclaimers.

Only accuracy.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

2) Ryan obviously embraces the modern era and the 3-point shot more than his predecessor. The Wolves never took more than 35 three-pointers during the Thibs Dark Ages...last night they took 38!
3) We also seem to be improving in defending the 3-point line, and it looks like Ryan is going to make this a priority. I didn't see it in Ryan's first two games and found our perimeter defense as bad as it was under Thibs, but last night I saw a concerted effort to try to contest all threes. I challenge anyone to find one game during the Dark Ages when the Wolves took 14 more threes than their opponent! Timberwolves fans...welcome to the modern NBA!

I guess I'll take the challenge? You're wrong on your stats.

The Wolves took 45 three pointers vs. GSW earlier this season. 43 vs. Milwaukee. 41 vs. San Antonio. 40 vs. LAL.

The Spurs took exactly 14 fewer three pointers in that game.

The Wolves shot only 24 in one of the games under Saunders.



[Note: I fully expect the Wolves to shoot more than previously moving forward. From what I've heard (not my own assumptions) Saunders seems to be trying to weed out the long two pointers a bit. And, it's true that the Wolves progressively shot fewer 3s under Thibs as the season wore on. But let's see that play out before we make false claims.]

Whoops. I misread Dane Moore's tweet where he said the Wolves never took more than 35 3-pointers in a game "during Thibs' first two seasons"...didn't notice that Dane wasn't including this season. Thanks for the correction. although I still find it interesting that Ryan did something in his third game that Thibs didn't do in two years. Also thanks for taking the "14 more three pointers challenge". I will point out though that the Spurs take fewer 3-pointers than any team in the league, so we should be taking a lot more against them. I also expect the increased 3-pointer trend to continue.

No need for disclaimers.

Only accuracy.

Yep, thanks again for the correction.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

We're six games into the Saunders era, and here are my thoughts on what is worse, what is the same, and what is better than the Dark Ages. Except for the W-L record, everything is my opinion or observation.

What is worse: I honestly can't think of anything that is worse under Saunders

What is the same:
1) Our hopes for a "new Wig" are dashed...he is the same heartless piece of crap under Ryan that he was under Thibs. Some pointed out the heart he showed in the first two Saunders games, but I pointed out that a "new Wig" teased us in the final two Thibs games too. Last night's debacle has me convinced that Wig will be no better under Ryan than Thibs.
2) Further, Ryan continues to give Wig too many undeserved minutes, just like Thibs did. I recognize we were short-handed last night with Rob and Tyus out, Teague ill, and Josh not quite ready for big minutes in close games But still it was a travesty to give a guy who wasn't showing a pulse last night 40 minutes. And Ryan continues to give Wig too many minutes at the start of games, even on the rare nights he is playing well. Ryan needs to recognize the nights when Wig doesn't care, and reduce his minutes.
3) Our poor defense. I said many times that Thibs proved he couldn't coach a Wolves defense without Butler or RoCo, and it looks like Ryan is not going to be much different. Our perimeter defense is as awful now as it was during the Dark Ages, and is especially bad with Rob and Tyus out.

What is better:
1) End of game management. It's odd that a 32 year old rookie coach is so much better than a veteran at crunch time, but he clearly is...and that is the main reason we have won 3 out of 5 nail biters under Ryan. Offense/defense substitutions are common with most NBA coaches, but Thibs seldom adopted this strategy late in games...Ryan OTOH uses it regularly and effectively. Secondly, many of us were frustrated by the MicroManager using his time outs too early so he seldom had any available when he really needed them. Ryan understands the value of a late game time out, and uses them much more judiciously. I can't overemphasize the importance of these two changes.

2) Our record. Despite the Philly debacle, the Wolves are 3-3 under Ryan...with all of his wins (and two of his losses) against Western teams. Thibs was 6-9 in his final 15 games, with half of those wins against the weak East (I cherry picked 15 games because it's the time period Jim Pete cited last night...I will be sure to update this with Ryan's record in his first 15 games). It's also notable that Thibs had our best defensive player RoCo available for 11 of those 15 games, while Ryan hasn't had him on the court yet. Even though Ryan faces a tougher schedule than Thibs did the rest of the way, early returns are that we should be more successful under Ryan...especially if we get RoCo back soon.

3)Rotations: While I'm not happy with the number of minutes Ryan is giving Wig, he clearly is using his roster in a more robust and creative way. He's not tied to a stubborn 9-man rotation like Thibs was, and sometimes even uses 11 players like last night despite coming into the game short-handed. Thibs generally used injuries as a reason to shorten his bench and wear out his starters. I expect that Ryan's rotations will be even more effective when we get RoCo and Tyus back.


4) Deng. Thibs only used Deng 3 times in a mop up role. In his first 6 games, Ryan has turned to Deng twice in critical moments of the game...both times very successfully. Luol is not a guy who deserves to take big minutes away from the talented young roster, but he is a proven winner, and Ryan has found a way to effectively use him that the unflexible Thibs just couldn't see.

5) Collaboration with coaches and control of the team. I have always admired how Pop would start his timeout breaks by listening to his 3 assistant coaches...the four of them always standing in the same formation. Ryan models his time out behavior after Pop, not Thibs...an excellent choice. And all player eyes continue to be focused on him when he finally addresses them.

6) Sideline demeanor. It is so pleasant to have an adult on the sidelines rather than a red-faced whining baboon...both visually and audibly.

7) Player interaction. I watched and watch Thibs and Ryan closely, and their interaction with players is remarkably different. He's not afraid to praise a player when he does something good, and never scowls visibly on the sidelines when a player screws up...I know several posters here see this as not meaningful, but I have to respectfully disagree. That said, I have seem Ryan pull players aside on several occasions (most often Okogie) when they do something he think needs correcting. And while I didn't observe it, KAT said in today's Strib that Ryan is working with him on his whining, and trying to convince him he will get more calls if he gets the refs on his side.

I noticed several posters seeming to be critical of Ryan compared to Thibs in last night's GDT, so I expect this post to generate some interesting discussion. Be specific, and tell me where I am wrong...critique my "what is better" list with specifics, and add some items to my empty "what is worse" list. Ready, go!

[AbeVigodaLive]

53 - 167 (32%).

The Wolves are actually shooting fewer... and making fewer... three pointers under Saunders than they did under Thibs.

And it's trending downward... with 23, 26 and 24 attempts in the past three games. That's only 24.3 per game and would be the worst in the league.




[Note: Blame it on Thibs system... injuries... Saunders following his dad's legacy... or just how the Wolves do things almost every year... but nothing has really changed for the positive thus far in adapting to a more modern NBA game.]

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

53 - 167 (32%).

The Wolves are actually shooting fewer... and making fewer... three pointers under Saunders than they did under Thibs.

And it's trending downward... with 23, 26 and 24 attempts in the past three games. That's only 24.3 per game and would be the worst in the league.




[Note: Blame it on Thibs system... injuries... Saunders following his dad's legacy... or just how the Wolves do things almost every year... but nothing has really changed for the positive thus far in adapting to a more modern NBA game.]

A fair suggstion, abe, but certainly explainable. Our highest volume (and nearly most accurate) 3-point shooter was on the court for most of Thibs' 15 games, but none of Ryan's. We're not a bad 3-point shooting team with RoCo on the court, but not very good at all without his nearly seven attempts at 37%. I'm sure we all agree that Josh is not a good replacement for RoCo with his 25% shooting.

[AbeVigodaLive]

53 - 167 (32%).

The Wolves are actually shooting fewer... and making fewer... three pointers under Saunders than they did under Thibs.

And it's trending downward... with 23, 26 and 24 attempts in the past three games. That's only 24.3 per game and would be the worst in the league.




[Note: Blame it on Thibs system... injuries... Saunders following his dad's legacy... or just how the Wolves do things almost every year... but nothing has really changed for the positive thus far in adapting to a more modern NBA game.]

A fair suggstion, abe, but certainly explainable. Our highest volume (and nearly most accurate) 3-point shooter was on the court for most of Thibs' 15 games, but none of Ryan's. We're not a bad 3-point shooting team with RoCo on the court, but not very good at all without his nearly seven attempts at 37%. I'm sure we all agree that Josh is not a good replacement for RoCo with his 25% shooting.

It's less about efficiency... and more about volume. The Wolves still don't seem to value the shot as much as other teams. It's probably a work-in-progress that will take some time to instill... and to get guys like Wiggins to change from long two pointers to three pointers... but thus far, it's not the huge uptick people were praising after an even smaller sample size.

Hopefully, it happens. But it hasn't yet...

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Too early to draw any conclusions yet on Saunders, although he is certainly much easier to root for than Thibs. I like his offense/defense substitutions and also expanding the rotation a bit. Take Luol Deng for example....I know he hasn't played many minutes yet, but it seems like he's one of these "good things happen" type players when he's on the floor. He seems perfect for buying 4 or 5 minutes of time here and there to rest others.

[kekgeek]

We're six games into the Saunders era, and here are my thoughts on what is worse, what is the same, and what is better than the Dark Ages. Except for the W-L record, everything is my opinion or observation.

What is worse: I honestly can't think of anything that is worse under Saunders

What is the same:
1) Our hopes for a "new Wig" are dashed...he is the same heartless piece of crap under Ryan that he was under Thibs. Some pointed out the heart he showed in the first two Saunders games, but I pointed out that a "new Wig" teased us in the final two Thibs games too. Last night's debacle has me convinced that Wig will be no better under Ryan than Thibs.
2) Further, Ryan continues to give Wig too many undeserved minutes, just like Thibs did. I recognize we were short-handed last night with Rob and Tyus out, Teague ill, and Josh not quite ready for big minutes in close games But still it was a travesty to give a guy who wasn't showing a pulse last night 40 minutes. And Ryan continues to give Wig too many minutes at the start of games, even on the rare nights he is playing well. Ryan needs to recognize the nights when Wig doesn't care, and reduce his minutes.
3) Our poor defense. I said many times that Thibs proved he couldn't coach a Wolves defense without Butler or RoCo, and it looks like Ryan is not going to be much different. Our perimeter defense is as awful now as it was during the Dark Ages, and is especially bad with Rob and Tyus out.

What is better:
1) End of game management. It's odd that a 32 year old rookie coach is so much better than a veteran at crunch time, but he clearly is...and that is the main reason we have won 3 out of 5 nail biters under Ryan. Offense/defense substitutions are common with most NBA coaches, but Thibs seldom adopted this strategy late in games...Ryan OTOH uses it regularly and effectively. Secondly, many of us were frustrated by the MicroManager using his time outs too early so he seldom had any available when he really needed them. Ryan understands the value of a late game time out, and uses them much more judiciously. I can't overemphasize the importance of these two changes.

2) Our record. Despite the Philly debacle, the Wolves are 3-3 under Ryan...with all of his wins (and two of his losses) against Western teams. Thibs was 6-9 in his final 15 games, with half of those wins against the weak East (I cherry picked 15 games because it's the time period Jim Pete cited last night...I will be sure to update this with Ryan's record in his first 15 games). It's also notable that Thibs had our best defensive player RoCo available for 11 of those 15 games, while Ryan hasn't had him on the court yet. Even though Ryan faces a tougher schedule than Thibs did the rest of the way, early returns are that we should be more successful under Ryan...especially if we get RoCo back soon.

3)Rotations: While I'm not happy with the number of minutes Ryan is giving Wig, he clearly is using his roster in a more robust and creative way. He's not tied to a stubborn 9-man rotation like Thibs was, and sometimes even uses 11 players like last night despite coming into the game short-handed. Thibs generally used injuries as a reason to shorten his bench and wear out his starters. I expect that Ryan's rotations will be even more effective when we get RoCo and Tyus back.


4) Deng. Thibs only used Deng 3 times in a mop up role. In his first 6 games, Ryan has turned to Deng twice in critical moments of the game...both times very successfully. Luol is not a guy who deserves to take big minutes away from the talented young roster, but he is a proven winner, and Ryan has found a way to effectively use him that the unflexible Thibs just couldn't see.

5) Collaboration with coaches and control of the team. I have always admired how Pop would start his timeout breaks by listening to his 3 assistant coaches...the four of them always standing in the same formation. Ryan models his time out behavior after Pop, not Thibs...an excellent choice. And all player eyes continue to be focused on him when he finally addresses them.

6) Sideline demeanor. It is so pleasant to have an adult on the sidelines rather than a red-faced whining baboon...both visually and audibly.

7) Player interaction. I watched and watch Thibs and Ryan closely, and their interaction with players is remarkably different. He's not afraid to praise a player when he does something good, and never scowls visibly on the sidelines when a player screws up...I know several posters here see this as not meaningful, but I have to respectfully disagree. That said, I have seem Ryan pull players aside on several occasions (most often Okogie) when they do something he think needs correcting. And while I didn't observe it, KAT said in today's Strib that Ryan is working with him on his whining, and trying to convince him he will get more calls if he gets the refs on his side.

I noticed several posters seeming to be critical of Ryan compared to Thibs in last night's GDT, so I expect this post to generate some interesting discussion. Be specific, and tell me where I am wrong...critique my "what is better" list with specifics, and add some items to my empty "what is worse" list. Ready, go!

I take some problems on saying we are defiantly better with Saunders and nothing bad has happened.

Def Rating
With Thibs
109.1 (16th in the NBA)

With Saunders
116.9 (27th in the NBA)

Difference
7.8 pts per 100 worse and dropped 11 positions in the NBA.

Off Rating
With Thibs
109.4 (15th in the NBA)

With Saunders
110.6 (13th in the NBA)

Difference
1.2 pts per 100 better moved up 2 spots

Pace
With Thibs
101.12 (12th in the NBA)

With Saunders
102.67 (7th in the NBA)

Difference
1 possession more a game moved up 5 teams

EFG%
With Thibs
50.8% (23rd in the NBA)

With Saunders
47.7% (last in the NBA)

Difference
3.1 % worse and moved to the worst team in the NBA

Net Rating
With Thibs
+0.3 (18th in the NBA)

With Saunders
-6.3 (25th in the NBA)

Difference
6.6 pts worse and dropped 7 spots

3PT Attempts
With Thibs
28.5 attempts per game (23rd in the NBA)

With Saunders
27.8 attempts per game (24th in the NBA)

Difference
0.7 attempts more with Thibs no real difference

% of pts from 3 pts and mid range 2pt attempts
Are legit identical, its non significant difference but we score 0.3% of our pts come from mid range jumpers under Saunders

Defending 3 pt Attempts and %
With Thibs
12.3 made 3 against (28th in the NBA) 37.3 % (last in the NBA)

With Saunders
12.3 made 3 against (23rd in the NBA) 37.4% (16th in the NBA)

Difference
Identical on both cases

Players minutes
Wiggins minutes increased by 2.5 minutes per game
Towns minutes down 3.7 minutes pr game (foul trouble)
Okogie up 6.2 minute per game (different role)
Teauge down 5.1 minutes per game
Rose up 1.4 minutes per game
Tyus in identical
Taj up 0.3 minutes per game
Saric down 2.4 minutes per game

The Wolves are 3-3 under Saunders and 1-5 against the spread. Don't get me wrong Thibs should of gotten fired. But lets not act like we are better now with him fired. We are worse or the same in almost every category, from defense to offense. We are not playing a significant faster pace and we are shooting a little less 3s under Saunders. The % of our pts from mid range 2s are the same and the % of our pts that come from 3s are the same. The only big difference in minutes under Saunders is he is playing more guys but besides Teauge their is no drop off in players minutes and in many cases he is playing guys more than Thibs did.

In the Clutch we are 3-2, in 2 of those wins (Suns and Thunder) we ran the things we all hate, we ran iso mid range 2 for Rose and iso mid range 2 for Wiggins the only difference is the ball went in the hoop on those bad shots.

Don't get me wrong I don't miss Thibs yelling every possession but to say we are better off isn't true. Maybe we are a little bit more fun to watch because of it but stats are showing early that we have been worse since Saunders took over or the same (I understand small sample size and the sixers game could skew data).

Sorry for the long ass post

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

We're six games into the Saunders era, and here are my thoughts on what is worse, what is the same, and what is better than the Dark Ages. Except for the W-L record, everything is my opinion or observation.

What is worse: I honestly can't think of anything that is worse under Saunders

What is the same:
1) Our hopes for a "new Wig" are dashed...he is the same heartless piece of crap under Ryan that he was under Thibs. Some pointed out the heart he showed in the first two Saunders games, but I pointed out that a "new Wig" teased us in the final two Thibs games too. Last night's debacle has me convinced that Wig will be no better under Ryan than Thibs.
2) Further, Ryan continues to give Wig too many undeserved minutes, just like Thibs did. I recognize we were short-handed last night with Rob and Tyus out, Teague ill, and Josh not quite ready for big minutes in close games But still it was a travesty to give a guy who wasn't showing a pulse last night 40 minutes. And Ryan continues to give Wig too many minutes at the start of games, even on the rare nights he is playing well. Ryan needs to recognize the nights when Wig doesn't care, and reduce his minutes.
3) Our poor defense. I said many times that Thibs proved he couldn't coach a Wolves defense without Butler or RoCo, and it looks like Ryan is not going to be much different. Our perimeter defense is as awful now as it was during the Dark Ages, and is especially bad with Rob and Tyus out.

What is better:
1) End of game management. It's odd that a 32 year old rookie coach is so much better than a veteran at crunch time, but he clearly is...and that is the main reason we have won 3 out of 5 nail biters under Ryan. Offense/defense substitutions are common with most NBA coaches, but Thibs seldom adopted this strategy late in games...Ryan OTOH uses it regularly and effectively. Secondly, many of us were frustrated by the MicroManager using his time outs too early so he seldom had any available when he really needed them. Ryan understands the value of a late game time out, and uses them much more judiciously. I can't overemphasize the importance of these two changes.

2) Our record. Despite the Philly debacle, the Wolves are 3-3 under Ryan...with all of his wins (and two of his losses) against Western teams. Thibs was 6-9 in his final 15 games, with half of those wins against the weak East (I cherry picked 15 games because it's the time period Jim Pete cited last night...I will be sure to update this with Ryan's record in his first 15 games). It's also notable that Thibs had our best defensive player RoCo available for 11 of those 15 games, while Ryan hasn't had him on the court yet. Even though Ryan faces a tougher schedule than Thibs did the rest of the way, early returns are that we should be more successful under Ryan...especially if we get RoCo back soon.

3)Rotations: While I'm not happy with the number of minutes Ryan is giving Wig, he clearly is using his roster in a more robust and creative way. He's not tied to a stubborn 9-man rotation like Thibs was, and sometimes even uses 11 players like last night despite coming into the game short-handed. Thibs generally used injuries as a reason to shorten his bench and wear out his starters. I expect that Ryan's rotations will be even more effective when we get RoCo and Tyus back.


4) Deng. Thibs only used Deng 3 times in a mop up role. In his first 6 games, Ryan has turned to Deng twice in critical moments of the game...both times very successfully. Luol is not a guy who deserves to take big minutes away from the talented young roster, but he is a proven winner, and Ryan has found a way to effectively use him that the unflexible Thibs just couldn't see.

5) Collaboration with coaches and control of the team. I have always admired how Pop would start his timeout breaks by listening to his 3 assistant coaches...the four of them always standing in the same formation. Ryan models his time out behavior after Pop, not Thibs...an excellent choice. And all player eyes continue to be focused on him when he finally addresses them.

6) Sideline demeanor. It is so pleasant to have an adult on the sidelines rather than a red-faced whining baboon...both visually and audibly.

7) Player interaction. I watched and watch Thibs and Ryan closely, and their interaction with players is remarkably different. He's not afraid to praise a player when he does something good, and never scowls visibly on the sidelines when a player screws up...I know several posters here see this as not meaningful, but I have to respectfully disagree. That said, I have seem Ryan pull players aside on several occasions (most often Okogie) when they do something he think needs correcting. And while I didn't observe it, KAT said in today's Strib that Ryan is working with him on his whining, and trying to convince him he will get more calls if he gets the refs on his side.

I noticed several posters seeming to be critical of Ryan compared to Thibs in last night's GDT, so I expect this post to generate some interesting discussion. Be specific, and tell me where I am wrong...critique my "what is better" list with specifics, and add some items to my empty "what is worse" list. Ready, go!

Nice analysis LST.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

We're six games into the Saunders era, and here are my thoughts on what is worse, what is the same, and what is better than the Dark Ages. Except for the W-L record, everything is my opinion or observation.

What is worse: I honestly can't think of anything that is worse under Saunders

What is the same:
1) Our hopes for a "new Wig" are dashed...he is the same heartless piece of crap under Ryan that he was under Thibs. Some pointed out the heart he showed in the first two Saunders games, but I pointed out that a "new Wig" teased us in the final two Thibs games too. Last night's debacle has me convinced that Wig will be no better under Ryan than Thibs.
2) Further, Ryan continues to give Wig too many undeserved minutes, just like Thibs did. I recognize we were short-handed last night with Rob and Tyus out, Teague ill, and Josh not quite ready for big minutes in close games But still it was a travesty to give a guy who wasn't showing a pulse last night 40 minutes. And Ryan continues to give Wig too many minutes at the start of games, even on the rare nights he is playing well. Ryan needs to recognize the nights when Wig doesn't care, and reduce his minutes.
3) Our poor defense. I said many times that Thibs proved he couldn't coach a Wolves defense without Butler or RoCo, and it looks like Ryan is not going to be much different. Our perimeter defense is as awful now as it was during the Dark Ages, and is especially bad with Rob and Tyus out.

What is better:
1) End of game management. It's odd that a 32 year old rookie coach is so much better than a veteran at crunch time, but he clearly is...and that is the main reason we have won 3 out of 5 nail biters under Ryan. Offense/defense substitutions are common with most NBA coaches, but Thibs seldom adopted this strategy late in games...Ryan OTOH uses it regularly and effectively. Secondly, many of us were frustrated by the MicroManager using his time outs too early so he seldom had any available when he really needed them. Ryan understands the value of a late game time out, and uses them much more judiciously. I can't overemphasize the importance of these two changes.

2) Our record. Despite the Philly debacle, the Wolves are 3-3 under Ryan...with all of his wins (and two of his losses) against Western teams. Thibs was 6-9 in his final 15 games, with half of those wins against the weak East (I cherry picked 15 games because it's the time period Jim Pete cited last night...I will be sure to update this with Ryan's record in his first 15 games). It's also notable that Thibs had our best defensive player RoCo available for 11 of those 15 games, while Ryan hasn't had him on the court yet. Even though Ryan faces a tougher schedule than Thibs did the rest of the way, early returns are that we should be more successful under Ryan...especially if we get RoCo back soon.

3)Rotations: While I'm not happy with the number of minutes Ryan is giving Wig, he clearly is using his roster in a more robust and creative way. He's not tied to a stubborn 9-man rotation like Thibs was, and sometimes even uses 11 players like last night despite coming into the game short-handed. Thibs generally used injuries as a reason to shorten his bench and wear out his starters. I expect that Ryan's rotations will be even more effective when we get RoCo and Tyus back.


4) Deng. Thibs only used Deng 3 times in a mop up role. In his first 6 games, Ryan has turned to Deng twice in critical moments of the game...both times very successfully. Luol is not a guy who deserves to take big minutes away from the talented young roster, but he is a proven winner, and Ryan has found a way to effectively use him that the unflexible Thibs just couldn't see.

5) Collaboration with coaches and control of the team. I have always admired how Pop would start his timeout breaks by listening to his 3 assistant coaches...the four of them always standing in the same formation. Ryan models his time out behavior after Pop, not Thibs...an excellent choice. And all player eyes continue to be focused on him when he finally addresses them.

6) Sideline demeanor. It is so pleasant to have an adult on the sidelines rather than a red-faced whining baboon...both visually and audibly.

7) Player interaction. I watched and watch Thibs and Ryan closely, and their interaction with players is remarkably different. He's not afraid to praise a player when he does something good, and never scowls visibly on the sidelines when a player screws up...I know several posters here see this as not meaningful, but I have to respectfully disagree. That said, I have seem Ryan pull players aside on several occasions (most often Okogie) when they do something he think needs correcting. And while I didn't observe it, KAT said in today's Strib that Ryan is working with him on his whining, and trying to convince him he will get more calls if he gets the refs on his side.

I noticed several posters seeming to be critical of Ryan compared to Thibs in last night's GDT, so I expect this post to generate some interesting discussion. Be specific, and tell me where I am wrong...critique my "what is better" list with specifics, and add some items to my empty "what is worse" list. Ready, go!

I take some problems on saying we are defiantly better with Saunders and nothing bad has happened.

Def Rating
With Thibs
109.1 (16th in the NBA)

With Saunders
116.9 (27th in the NBA)

Difference
7.8 pts per 100 worse and dropped 11 positions in the NBA.

Off Rating
With Thibs
109.4 (15th in the NBA)

With Saunders
110.6 (13th in the NBA)

Difference
1.2 pts per 100 better moved up 2 spots

Pace
With Thibs
101.12 (12th in the NBA)

With Saunders
102.67 (7th in the NBA)

Difference
1 possession more a game moved up 5 teams

EFG%
With Thibs
50.8% (23rd in the NBA)

With Saunders
47.7% (last in the NBA)

Difference
3.1 % worse and moved to the worst team in the NBA

Net Rating
With Thibs
+0.3 (18th in the NBA)

With Saunders
-6.3 (25th in the NBA)

Difference
6.6 pts worse and dropped 7 spots

3PT Attempts
With Thibs
28.5 attempts per game (23rd in the NBA)

With Saunders
27.8 attempts per game (24th in the NBA)

Difference
0.7 attempts more with Thibs no real difference

% of pts from 3 pts and mid range 2pt attempts
Are legit identical, its non significant difference but we score 0.3% of our pts come from mid range jumpers under Saunders

Defending 3 pt Attempts and %
With Thibs
12.3 made 3 against (28th in the NBA) 37.3 % (last in the NBA)

With Saunders
12.3 made 3 against (23rd in the NBA) 37.4% (16th in the NBA)

Difference
Identical on both cases

Players minutes
Wiggins minutes increased by 2.5 minutes per game
Towns minutes down 3.7 minutes pr game (foul trouble)
Okogie up 6.2 minute per game (different role)
Teauge down 5.1 minutes per game
Rose up 1.4 minutes per game
Tyus in identical
Taj up 0.3 minutes per game
Saric down 2.4 minutes per game

The Wolves are 3-3 under Saunders and 1-5 against the spread. Don't get me wrong Thibs should of gotten fired. But lets not act like we are better now with him fired. We are worse or the same in almost every category, from defense to offense. We are not playing a significant faster pace and we are shooting a little less 3s under Saunders. The % of our pts from mid range 2s are the same and the % of our pts that come from 3s are the same. The only big difference in minutes under Saunders is he is playing more guys but besides Teauge their is no drop off in players minutes and in many cases he is playing guys more than Thibs did.

In the Clutch we are 3-2, in 2 of those wins (Suns and Thunder) we ran the things we all hate, we ran iso mid range 2 for Rose and iso mid range 2 for Wiggins the only difference is the ball went in the hoop on those bad shots.

Don't get me wrong I don't miss Thibs yelling every possession but to say we are better off isn't true. Maybe we are a little bit more fun to watch because of it but stats are showing early that we have been worse since Saunders took over or the same (I understand small sample size and the sixers game could skew data).

Sorry for the long ass post

Good data, kek. But I would argue that Thibs having RoCo for most of his games and Saunders not having him on the court yet has a lot to do with the granular stats. You're not going to measure as well when you lose a guy who is a DPOY candidate and your highest volume 3-point shooter. And yet, despite not having Covington, Ryan is still 3-3 in his first 6 games compared to Thibs' 6-9 in his last 15. Essentially replacing Covington with a very raw Josh Okogie is a big drop off...Ryan is doing a lot right to stay at .500 despite that drop off. As I said, it's a small sample size, and I'll update the w/l record after Ryan finishes his 15 games. But personally I'll be surprised if Ryan doesn't beat Thibs' 6-9...with or without RoCo.