TheFuture wrote:I also voted Deng, and would be very happy if we could get zaza and Deng instead of one player.
LST has stated all the arguments perfectly for Deng so I won't waste any time on those.
This was the point I was making. Instead of getting one Max or near max guy, we are much better off getting two very good role player types. Allow Towns and Wiggins to be the guys. The team needs more quality depth. We have the marquee players already.
longstrangetrip wrote:Let me throw out a weird question. If you were Kevin Durant, and your only two criteria for choosing your next team were:
1) the team needs to have the cap space to pay you a max contract, without doing any restructuring that involved giving up key pieces.
2) the chance to win the most possible championships over the next 9 years (4 years on his first max assuming he leaves Atlanta, plus another max contract).
What team would be your first choice?
Great question. Honestly, if I were Durant, I'd check out Boston.
They're young and selfless, they play intense defense and move the ball well, and even without a star they are already one of the top tier teams in the East--which is where Durant will be more likely to crack into the finals as LeBron ages and the top of the West continues to look very strong. Durant and the current Boston roster would fit each other perfectly, with Durant serving as the #1 scoring option on ball-hawking defensive squad that generally scores efficiently. Isaiah Thomas guarantees he won't be the only guy who can score when needed, and if Marcus Smart develops a jump shot, he'll be a star.
But the most important reasons Boston makes sense? 1) Boston is set to receive a bunch of future first round picks in the next four drafts, including 2 likely high picks from from the Nets, plus the right to swap first rounders in another draft from the abysmal Brooklyn squad, and 1 each from the Mavs and Grizz as both teams look on the decline. This will guarantee fresh young affordable talent or valuable trade bait to bring in another star if needed. And most importantly, 2) Brad Stevens is a great coach and looks like he's beginning one of those rare long coaching tenures where he will get to establish a dominant winning culture.
This sounds crazy, because nobody really talks about Boston, but I think that would be a very good landing spot for Durant if he'd like to win it all in the second-half of his career.
Wow great call with Boston. An already good playoff team that needs that star piece. Plus Boston has a great coach. Great call.
Yeah, I agree Boston is an intriguing call...not to mention the great basketball history they have there. Wolves and Celtics might be the two best choices.
Boston plays in the East where there is only one super team and they aren't as good as the two dominant west teams. All being said I hope Durant stays at OKC. I hate when stars don't stick it out.
TheFuture wrote:I also voted Deng, and would be very happy if we could get zaza and Deng instead of one player.
LST has stated all the arguments perfectly for Deng so I won't waste any time on those.
This was the point I was making. Instead of getting one Max or near max guy, we are much better off getting two very good role player types. Allow Towns and Wiggins to be the guys. The team needs more quality depth. We have the marquee players already.
Yeah, I voted for Horford, but a Deng/Zaza combo at the same price would be a really nice move too. I like both ideas equally.
If we were to add Durant, I think we'd have to trade Wiggins or LaVine. Both those guys are tracking toward 20-25 PPG scores along with KAT and it would be simply too much of a good thing to have that many scorers on the team. You need elite dirty work guys and it would be a waste of Wiggins' talent to try to make him into a 3 & D third fiddle to Durant and KAT.
I agree with Drew that Boston is the PERFECT fit for Durant. Unlike Minnesota, they could use a clear cut #1 guy (although Isiah Thomas is doing his damn best). And they already have all the dirty work guys they need.
It's been said already but I don't buy that Glen or of Kaplan (he already is part of an ownership of 2 pro franchises) ends up taking over that the Lux tax is gonna be something that is a problem in resigning not the top guys on this team. People say Glen is cheap. Basically every owner will try and save some money of its moving a player that's non-essential. Miami GS were 2 teams that made money saving moves this last year. Convince me that if TOwns Wiggins and Lavine are all terrific players Glen as an old dude who wants to win and these guys were brought in by the late Flip Saunders he won't go into the Lux tax range for them and for a guy like Dieng too? I'm not buying it. This guy paid KG a boatload of money changing the league and ending up screwing the franchise over by doing it. He has paid up for 2 terrific coaches in Adelman and Thibs. I think Glen is wiling to pay money of its actually gonna be worth it. People on this board have disagreed with me for years on this and no reason to rehash that because it's up to Glen or whoever owns this team when it comes time to put their money where their mouth is and pay up if needed. The bottom line is being too concerned about the lux tax shouldn't keep from upgrading your roster now AND for the future.
I think Jon K made an interesting parallel between Zimmer and Thibs. I wonder if Layden and Thibs take more of the approach to FA that the Vikings have. Value guys and guys they think will fit in their culture and team not just adding talent. The NFL is a different animal but the Wolves already have the top dogs in place. Nobody will complain about adding more high level talent but there might only be certain guys that make sense for various reasons.
One last thought on Deng. I haven't seen Miami play for a while but he is the starting PF there right now. Why couldn't he be at least a part time starter here with Dieng maybe getting the nod in certain matchups? I think it's going to take a pretty good chunk of money to get him here but he probably won't be a max guy. He could end up being a great fit and allow them a little more room to add another player this season and beyond.
LST, you said you think the expectation for this team next year should be around 55 wins. If you really believe that we'll be among the best teams in basketball, then going for a huge splash in free agency (Horford) would certainly make sense right now. Our window is opening. You don't keep playing for the future if you're ready to start winning now. That's just silliness in my opinion and it might just be because the Wolves have always been playing for the future. This is our best opportunity to add someone worthwhile in free agency. We need to take advantage of it. When our young guys are on their second contracts, signing a max player in free agency will be damn near impossible. So, you either make a move like this now, or you make it never. And keep in mind, if we do win 50+ games, we'll be expected to make noise in the playoffs. The group of guys we have now have not been through that and you need a player (players) that has gone through playoff series and is good enough to really make a difference there. Horford's more of a steadying force in that type of atmosphere than Deng is. I don't see how you don't go get Horford if you can.
As for worrying about contracts, that's years away and the Wolves will hold all the power in that situation anyway (RFA, Bird Rights). And as someone has already said, if you have Towns, Wiggins, and LaVine all deserving of a max deal, that's a good problem to have. At worst, Taylor's in the luxury tax for a year or two. That's not a terrible price to pay for an owner that's shown he'll put up the money if it means winning. It's also his last shot at doing something special with this franchise after wasting away the last 12 years. We all want to see results, but I have to think the guy signing everyone's checks wants to see results even more than we do.
Camden0916 wrote:LST, you said you think the expectation for this team next year should be around 55 wins. If you really believe that we'll be among the best teams in basketball, then going for a huge splash in free agency (Horford) would certainly make sense right now. Our window is opening. You don't keep playing for the future if you're ready to start winning now. That's just silliness in my opinion and it might just be because the Wolves have always been playing for the future. This is our best opportunity to add someone worthwhile in free agency. We need to take advantage of it. When our young guys are on their second contracts, signing a max player in free agency will be damn near impossible. So, you either make a move like this now, or you make it never. And keep in mind, if we do win 50+ games, we'll be expected to make noise in the playoffs. The group of guys we have now have not been through that and you need a player (players) that has gone through playoff series and is good enough to really make a difference there. Horford's more of a steadying force in that type of atmosphere than Deng is. I don't see how you don't go get Horford if you can.
As for worrying about contracts, that's years away and the Wolves will hold all the power in that situation anyway (RFA, Bird Rights). And as someone has already said, if you have Towns, Wiggins, and LaVine all deserving of a max deal, that's a good problem to have. At worst, Taylor's in the luxury tax for a year or two. That's not a terrible price to pay for an owner that's shown he'll put up the money if it means winning. It's also his last shot at doing something special with this franchise after wasting away the last 12 years. We all want to see results, but I have to think the guy signing everyone's checks wants to see results even more than we do.
I'm of a differing opinion on how to win the most amount of games next year. You and the majority of others feel going big with Horford, who is a very very good player, is the best way forward. I feel that getting 2 guys for the same amount of salary you are paying Horford is the better way to go. The reason I believe that is because I feel Towns, Wiggins, and LaVine are going to get even better, especially with the caliber coaching they will be getting. To me brining in a big time max guy would take away from them a bit. To me getting top notch role players and depth is the way to go. Matchup flexibility to be able to match the small ball teams along with go up against bigger physical teams is ideal. I think a guy like Deng would be awesome because he can play the 3 or the 4 and won't cost near as much allowing you to get another player alongside. I look at Golden State and the Spurs and the thing that sticks out to me the most is the depth and variety of ways they can beat you. I think adding two solid players is better for this team than adding that one all star talent. I could be wrong, I often am.
I choose other (DeJuan Blair or similar). The Duke and I are in the minority here with a couple others, don't think we should be fools and rush in here by offering a max deal to Horford or Barnes. We can let our cripples fill out the big back up roles next year and then see if Dieng has the chops to be the starter.
So, let's once again void our team of getting the best help possible for them? We've done that, though different circumstances, and it doesn't end up like we'd hoped. What you anti-signing Horford posters aren't even thinking about is how much better the young guys would be next to him, and how much easier the game would be for them on both ends of the floor. You're asking second and third year players to be "the guys" without any other All-Star talent to lead them to where they want to go. That's putting an awful lot of stress on players that should still be in college if this were the 90s.
The funny thing is that some of the people who wouldn't go get Horford are the same people that preach about Garnett's effect as a teacher/mentor/veteran presence that's good for the young guys. This isn't too far from that idea, except the most important aspect is that Horford produces on the court at a high level to go with it.
Camden wrote:LST, you said you think the expectation for this team next year should be around 55 wins. If you really believe that we'll be among the best teams in basketball, then going for a huge splash in free agency (Horford) would certainly make sense right now. Our window is opening. You don't keep playing for the future if you're ready to start winning now. That's just silliness in my opinion and it might just be because the Wolves have always been playing for the future. This is our best opportunity to add someone worthwhile in free agency. We need to take advantage of it. When our young guys are on their second contracts, signing a max player in free agency will be damn near impossible. So, you either make a move like this now, or you make it never. And keep in mind, if we do win 50+ games, we'll be expected to make noise in the playoffs. The group of guys we have now have not been through that and you need a player (players) that has gone through playoff series and is good enough to really make a difference there. Horford's more of a steadying force in that type of atmosphere than Deng is. I don't see how you don't go get Horford if you can.
As for worrying about contracts, that's years away and the Wolves will hold all the power in that situation anyway (RFA, Bird Rights). And as someone has already said, if you have Towns, Wiggins, and LaVine all deserving of a max deal, that's a good problem to have. At worst, Taylor's in the luxury tax for a year or two. That's not a terrible price to pay for an owner that's shown he'll put up the money if it means winning. It's also his last shot at doing something special with this franchise after wasting away the last 12 years. We all want to see results, but I have to think the guy signing everyone's checks wants to see results even more than we do.
I pretty much agree with this take. Let's stop always hoping and prepping for a future that never pans out. The future is now. We have the foundation, the coach, the draft pick, the cap space - go out and put a contending team on the floor as soon as possible. We are still going to grow with our young players, but no reason not to go for it starting right now.
