monsterpile wrote:
I don't know what else there is really to discuss here. Personally I just can't agree that Dieng isn't much that much different than Favors or Horford. Agree to disagree.
I cannot locate the post where someone wrote there isn't much difference between Dieng and Favors/Horford. Everything I've found acknowledges Horford/Favors as better players - at a higher price. What you are quoting is me attempting to provide perspective of the gap between those players. Since the entire thread is about attempting to establish Dieng's value, I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with trying to define the gap between levels. For what it's worth, there are multiple sites/formulas that attempt to provide an all inclusive player value. Here are the four different sites using players being tossed around:
If someone is going to compare Dieng to John Henson, I certainly can compare Dieng to Horford/Favors.
I'm sticking with my position to agree to disagree you value Dieng much higher than I do and that's cool. If you are serious about "I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with trying to define the gap between levels." then IMO take the high road next time and be respectful of others perspective.
Danger is almost always respective on this board. I don't think it's fair to take this shot at him.
You are right he is generally respectful and I have appreciated his defending Dieng for all these months who deserved to have someone in his corner. The post I alluded to wasn't respectful though we are all better than that so I really wasn't just singling him out.
Wait a minute. Let's not turn this place into the Vagina Monologues. It's okay for guys to bicker a little bit. It's gonna happen on boards like these. I re-read what I wrote and IMO there is nothing over the top. I've certainly read far worse from other posters and never seen you attempt to reprimand them. The thing I like most about this board is that there isn't a moderator. Yet things seem to run better here than other boards with a moderator. Funny how that works. Sometimes it's best to just let guys fight and get it all out. As far as I'm concerned this one is done. Next.
lipoli390 wrote:I think Gorgui is a starting caliber PF playing alongside a star center and Allstar caliber SF. Gorgui rebounds, blocks shots and passes. He has a very accurate short to mid-range jumper and has shown 3/point range. He is also highly competitive.
He's no Millsap or Horford but he doesn't have to be because we wouldn't need him to be one of top 2 players - or even our top 3 or 4 guy.
I'd definitely wait until after the draft and free agency before doing anything with Gorgui. But unless we sign a free agent PF in his mid to late 20s who is better than Gorgui, I'd offer offer the 4-year $48 million.
Agreed. And I'll add he's an excellent free throw shooter for a big, has good chemistry with KAT, seems to be pretty healthy, tries to improve his game each year and is a good teammate. I'd offer him a contract between $14 and $15 Mill a year frontloaded as much as possible. If Thibs can elevate his game, it will end up being a bargain.
monsterpile wrote:
I don't know what else there is really to discuss here. Personally I just can't agree that Dieng isn't much that much different than Favors or Horford. Agree to disagree.
I cannot locate the post where someone wrote there isn't much difference between Dieng and Favors/Horford. Everything I've found acknowledges Horford/Favors as better players - at a higher price. What you are quoting is me attempting to provide perspective of the gap between those players. Since the entire thread is about attempting to establish Dieng's value, I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with trying to define the gap between levels. For what it's worth, there are multiple sites/formulas that attempt to provide an all inclusive player value. Here are the four different sites using players being tossed around:
If someone is going to compare Dieng to John Henson, I certainly can compare Dieng to Horford/Favors.
I'm sticking with my position to agree to disagree you value Dieng much higher than I do and that's cool. If you are serious about "I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with trying to define the gap between levels." then IMO take the high road next time and be respectful of others perspective.
Danger is almost always respective on this board. I don't think it's fair to take this shot at him.
You are right he is generally respectful and I have appreciated his defending Dieng for all these months who deserved to have someone in his corner. The post I alluded to wasn't respectful though we are all better than that so I really wasn't just singling him out.
Wait a minute. Let's not turn this place into the Vagina Monologues. It's okay for guys to bicker a little bit. It's gonna happen on boards like these. I re-read what I wrote and IMO there is nothing over the top. I've certainly read far worse from other posters and never seen you attempt to reprimand them. The thing I like most about this board is that there isn't a moderator. Yet things seem to run better here than other boards with a moderator. Funny how that works. Sometimes it's best to just let guys fight and get it all out. As far as I'm concerned this one is done. Next.
Camden wrote:Dieng as a starter this year vs. Horford and Favors (all numbers PER 36):
[table]
[tr]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]Points[/th]
[th]Rebounds[/th]
[th]Blocks[/th]
[th]PER[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Dieng[/td]
[td]14.5[/td]
[td]9.1[/td]
[td]1.6[/td]
[td]19.1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Horford[/td]
[td]17.1[/td]
[td]8.2[/td]
[td]1.7[/td]
[td]19.4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Favors[/td]
[td]18.4[/td]
[td]9.1[/td]
[td]1.7[/td]
[td]21.6[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
So, not only are Horford and Favors better offensively and defensively (while winning basketball games in the process), but they've been doing it for hundreds of games whereas we're using Dieng's 39 game sample where the team went 15-24 and trying to get something definitive from it? What are we even talking about? Why are we comparing Dieng to two hands down better players in Horford and Favors? I assume it's because those are two guys that I've personally named that would be perfect fits here and I've went to bat for both of them, but this comparison is a disservice to Dieng. More appropriate comparisons would be to John Henson or even Kenneth Faried because that's the type of player we're discussing. Not an All-Star or an All-Star caliber player.
I don't think Dieng is as good as Horford and Favors, but he's much closer to their level than that that of the other guys you compared him to. Henson (who is a pretty limited player) and Faried (who is not a good defender) are not even close to Dieng's value.
I get the point that is trying to be made comparing Dieng to Favors and Horford but honestly IMO it's going too far to try and prove a point on guys that Cam has shown affinity for. Both Favors and Horford are pretty good players. Dieng had t even arrived at being a good player...yet and that's coming from one of Dieng's biggest fans.
Good stuff, monster. It's gotten lost throughout the discussions about Dieng, but I was actually really pleased with his play this year as a whole. He was one of the few guys that you kinda knew what they were going to give you nightly, and I do value that. Now, clearly I'm not as high on him at the moment as others here, and I think his role is that of a great big off the bench, but that doesn't mean I'm kicking him out the door or a Gorgui hater. That's just not true. I liked the growth from his second year to his third, and if he were to take up another notch under Thibs, that'd be gravy.
PS: I can still remember pre-draft 2013 on the old ESPN board where Lipoli and I were big fans of Dieng, and I believe we both said we would have considered him as high as No. 9 given the other options in a weak draft. Lip can confirm or deny that if he remembers what I'm talking about. So, to those that think I'm not a fan of the guy, just know you're wrong.
I wanted Dieng in that draft I didn't really care where we took him as long as we got him so yeah I was very high on him as well.
