Article: Should the Wolves Try to Extend Gorgui Dieng

[mjs34]

I wouldn't give Dieng even 10 mil. He is always going to struggle with holding position, and he is knocked to the ground by 190lb guards. Why do we always look at the best case scenarios. His D is atrocious, and I don't think it is anything that Thibs can fix. Mitchell worked with him from the first day of training camp, and he still doesn't understand how to guard a PnR, or cut off a driving lane. He simply can't process what is happening around him fast enough.

Someone mentioned his upside, but there isn't any. This is who he is. I would rather save the money and sign a guy more along the lines of a Kosta Koufus (7 mil per). We need defensive talent on this team.

[thedoper]

I wouldn't give Dieng even 10 mil. He is always going to struggle with holding position, and he is knocked to the ground by 190lb guards. Why do we always look at the best case scenarios. His D is atrocious, and I don't think it is anything that Thibs can fix. Mitchell worked with him from the first day of training camp, and he still doesn't understand how to guard a PnR, or cut off a driving lane. He simply can't process what is happening around him fast enough.

Someone mentioned his upside, but there isn't any. This is who he is. I would rather save the money and sign a guy more along the lines of a Kosta Koufus (7 mil per). We need defensive talent on this team.

Good post. My gut says he's a decent back up big, occasional game changer, nothing more. I think he can be replaced. But if they can get him at a reasonable deal, I don't see why not.

[kekgeek]

I wouldn't give Dieng even 10 mil. He is always going to struggle with holding position, and he is knocked to the ground by 190lb guards. Why do we always look at the best case scenarios. His D is atrocious, and I don't think it is anything that Thibs can fix. Mitchell worked with him from the first day of training camp, and he still doesn't understand how to guard a PnR, or cut off a driving lane. He simply can't process what is happening around him fast enough.

Someone mentioned his upside, but there isn't any. This is who he is. I would rather save the money and sign a guy more along the lines of a Kosta Koufus (7 mil per). We need defensive talent on this team.

Good post. My gut says he's a decent back up big, occasional game changer, nothing more. I think he can be replaced. But if they can get him at a reasonable deal, I don't see why not.

Gorgui got so much better at PnR defense last year. He did not get killed as much in the post because he played pf

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I wouldn't give Dieng even 10 mil. He is always going to struggle with holding position, and he is knocked to the ground by 190lb guards. Why do we always look at the best case scenarios. His D is atrocious, and I don't think it is anything that Thibs can fix. Mitchell worked with him from the first day of training camp, and he still doesn't understand how to guard a PnR, or cut off a driving lane. He simply can't process what is happening around him fast enough.

Someone mentioned his upside, but there isn't any. This is who he is. I would rather save the money and sign a guy more along the lines of a Kosta Koufus (7 mil per). We need defensive talent on this team.

Good post. My gut says he's a decent back up big, occasional game changer, nothing more. I think he can be replaced. But if they can get him at a reasonable deal, I don't see why not.

But therein lies the rub. What do you define as reasonable? You have an extremist like SJM claiming he isn't worth a lump of coal and Khans on the opposite end saying he'd pay him $16M per year. Cam may actually fall in the middle on that spectrum!

I start getting queezy at around the $14M mark, but I'm no capologist. All I know is that the man is going to get paid eventually.....by someone.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Dieng as a starter this year vs. Horford and Favors (all numbers PER 36):
[table]
[tr]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]Points[/th]
[th]Rebounds[/th]
[th]Blocks[/th]
[th]PER[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Dieng[/td]
[td]14.5[/td]
[td]9.1[/td]
[td]1.6[/td]
[td]19.1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Horford[/td]
[td]17.1[/td]
[td]8.2[/td]
[td]1.7[/td]
[td]19.4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Favors[/td]
[td]18.4[/td]
[td]9.1[/td]
[td]1.7[/td]
[td]21.6[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

So, not only are Horford and Favors better offensively and defensively (while winning basketball games in the process), but they've been doing it for hundreds of games whereas we're using Dieng's 39 game sample where the team went 15-24 and trying to get something definitive from it? What are we even talking about? Why are we comparing Dieng to two hands down better players in Horford and Favors? I assume it's because those are two guys that I've personally named that would be perfect fits here and I've went to bat for both of them, but this comparison is a disservice to Dieng. More appropriate comparisons would be to John Henson or even Kenneth Faried because that's the type of player we're discussing. Not an All-Star or an All-Star caliber player.

Get the F out of here. The comparison is what it is. Cool noted the gap between Dieng and some of the other names floated out there isn't as far as some are pretending it to be. And others have made the point that we don't need another star as they believe Towns/Wiggins/LaVine can be our star power going forward. Dieng has over 100 NBA starts - so you can stop with the "39 game sample" bullshit. We know what Dieng is - a very efficient, complimentary player. The question is whether it's better to add a couple good complimentary players vs. one, high priced star. We all have opinions on that. Just because you post more than anyone else on here - doesn't mean your opinion carries anymore weight - sorry pal.

Goodness.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Dieng as a starter this year vs. Horford and Favors (all numbers PER 36):
[table]
[tr]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]Points[/th]
[th]Rebounds[/th]
[th]Blocks[/th]
[th]PER[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Dieng[/td]
[td]14.5[/td]
[td]9.1[/td]
[td]1.6[/td]
[td]19.1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Horford[/td]
[td]17.1[/td]
[td]8.2[/td]
[td]1.7[/td]
[td]19.4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Favors[/td]
[td]18.4[/td]
[td]9.1[/td]
[td]1.7[/td]
[td]21.6[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

So, not only are Horford and Favors better offensively and defensively (while winning basketball games in the process), but they've been doing it for hundreds of games whereas we're using Dieng's 39 game sample where the team went 15-24 and trying to get something definitive from it? What are we even talking about? Why are we comparing Dieng to two hands down better players in Horford and Favors? I assume it's because those are two guys that I've personally named that would be perfect fits here and I've went to bat for both of them, but this comparison is a disservice to Dieng. More appropriate comparisons would be to John Henson or even Kenneth Faried because that's the type of player we're discussing. Not an All-Star or an All-Star caliber player.

I don't think Dieng is as good as Horford and Favors, but he's much closer to their level than that that of the other guys you compared him to. Henson (who is a pretty limited player) and Faried (who is not a good defender) are not even close to Dieng's value.

I get the point that is trying to be made comparing Dieng to Favors and Horford but honestly IMO it's going too far to try and prove a point on guys that Cam has shown affinity for. Both Favors and Horford are pretty good players. Dieng had t even arrived at being a good player...yet and that's coming from one of Dieng's biggest fans.

Good stuff, monster. It's gotten lost throughout the discussions about Dieng, but I was actually really pleased with his play this year as a whole. He was one of the few guys that you kinda knew what they were going to give you nightly, and I do value that. Now, clearly I'm not as high on him at the moment as others here, and I think his role is that of a great big off the bench, but that doesn't mean I'm kicking him out the door or a Gorgui hater. That's just not true. I liked the growth from his second year to his third, and if he were to take up another notch under Thibs, that'd be gravy.

PS: I can still remember pre-draft 2013 on the old ESPN board where Lipoli and I were big fans of Dieng, and I believe we both said we would have considered him as high as No. 9 given the other options in a weak draft. Lip can confirm or deny that if he remembers what I'm talking about. So, to those that think I'm not a fan of the guy, just know you're wrong.

[Monster]

Dieng as a starter this year vs. Horford and Favors (all numbers PER 36):
[table]
[tr]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]Points[/th]
[th]Rebounds[/th]
[th]Blocks[/th]
[th]PER[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Dieng[/td]
[td]14.5[/td]
[td]9.1[/td]
[td]1.6[/td]
[td]19.1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Horford[/td]
[td]17.1[/td]
[td]8.2[/td]
[td]1.7[/td]
[td]19.4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Favors[/td]
[td]18.4[/td]
[td]9.1[/td]
[td]1.7[/td]
[td]21.6[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

So, not only are Horford and Favors better offensively and defensively (while winning basketball games in the process), but they've been doing it for hundreds of games whereas we're using Dieng's 39 game sample where the team went 15-24 and trying to get something definitive from it? What are we even talking about? Why are we comparing Dieng to two hands down better players in Horford and Favors? I assume it's because those are two guys that I've personally named that would be perfect fits here and I've went to bat for both of them, but this comparison is a disservice to Dieng. More appropriate comparisons would be to John Henson or even Kenneth Faried because that's the type of player we're discussing. Not an All-Star or an All-Star caliber player.

Get the F out of here. The comparison is what it is. Cool noted the gap between Dieng and some of the other names floated out there isn't as far as some are pretending it to be. And others have made the point that we don't need another star as they believe Towns/Wiggins/LaVine can be our star power going forward. Dieng has over 100 NBA starts - so you can stop with the "39 game sample" bullshit. We know what Dieng is - a very efficient, complimentary player. The question is whether it's better to add a couple good complimentary players vs. one, high priced star. We all have opinions on that. Just because you post more than anyone else on here - doesn't mean your opinion carries anymore weight - sorry pal.

Goodness.

I don't know what else there is really to discuss here. Personally I just can't agree that Dieng isn't much that much different than Favors or Horford. Agree to disagree.

[thedoper]

I wouldn't give Dieng even 10 mil. He is always going to struggle with holding position, and he is knocked to the ground by 190lb guards. Why do we always look at the best case scenarios. His D is atrocious, and I don't think it is anything that Thibs can fix. Mitchell worked with him from the first day of training camp, and he still doesn't understand how to guard a PnR, or cut off a driving lane. He simply can't process what is happening around him fast enough.

Someone mentioned his upside, but there isn't any. This is who he is. I would rather save the money and sign a guy more along the lines of a Kosta Koufus (7 mil per). We need defensive talent on this team.

Good post. My gut says he's a decent back up big, occasional game changer, nothing more. I think he can be replaced. But if they can get him at a reasonable deal, I don't see why not.

But therein lies the rub. What do you define as reasonable? You have an extremist like SJM claiming he isn't worth a lump of coal and Khans on the opposite end saying he'd pay him $16M per year. Cam may actually fall in the middle on that spectrum!

I start getting queezy at around the $14M mark, but I'm no capologist. All I know is that the man is going to get paid eventually.....by someone.

12 is the highest I would if I were them. I honestly think 8 for 3 is fair.

[Carlos Danger]

I don't know what else there is really to discuss here. Personally I just can't agree that Dieng isn't much that much different than Favors or Horford. Agree to disagree.

I cannot locate the post where someone wrote there isn't much difference between Dieng and Favors/Horford. Everything I've found acknowledges Horford/Favors as better players - at a higher price. What you are quoting is me attempting to provide perspective of the gap between those players. Since the entire thread is about attempting to establish Dieng's value, I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with trying to define the gap between levels. For what it's worth, there are multiple sites/formulas that attempt to provide an all inclusive player value. Here are the four different sites using players being tossed around:

Basketball Reference (VORP)
Horford (4.1), Dieng (2.5), Favors (2.3), Henson (0.9)

ESPN (RPM Wins)
Horford (10.70), Dieng (8.11), Favors (5.52), Henson (.80)

NBA.com (PIE)
Favors (14.0), Horford (13.7), Dieng (11.5), Henson (10.3)

CBS.com Player Ratings
Horford (70.09), Favors (68.10), Dieng (64.84), Henson (35.84)

If someone is going to compare Dieng to John Henson, I certainly can compare Dieng to Horford/Favors.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Once again... I'm even more disappointed in the Wolves last season. Why did I follow that team for so long?

Dieng is a poor man's Horford/Favors... and then there's Wiggins, Towns, Rubio and LaVine. 4 of those guys are even good to great to OMG defensively!

And the team still lost 53 games and finished 28th on defense. What a disappointment.

[Note: I don't mind Dieng. He's fine as a 4th or 5th option. He's improved... that's huge. And the cap situation is fine for now. I don't know how that translates down the line though. We know Towns and Dieng can lock down the frontcourt on a 53-loss team. And probably even a .500 type team. The question is whether he's good enough to be a starting PF worth $50+M on a 50+ win team? The difference can be huge. I don't know the answer to that. But I do know I give a lot more weight when comparing stats to guys on winning teams vs. guys on 66- and 53-loss teams. Damn you Shareef Abdur Rahim... you did this to me!]