Game Report - Wolves v. Jazz

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Lipoli390
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Re: Game Report - Wolves v. Jazz

Post by Lipoli390 »

Duke13 wrote:Lip, I get that there is a lot of emotion involved with losing a player like Rubio. But man it's been two games. And to try and hammer that point after two games is a bit irrational. And we don't need to declare Wiggins a great player or not a great player after every game. Khans you continue to be the most rational and on point poster on the board.


It's not irrational or emotion-driven to say we would have been better off the past two games with Ricky based on what we've seen the past two games and what we know about both players. That's a very fair fact-based observation. I believe that's all Q and Bleed said and i know that's all i said. As i said, Teague played well defensively late in the 4th. I also noted that we'll have to see how this plays out over the season. By the end of the season, we may all look back and conclude that the swap was a net plus for us, especially when you factor in the 2018 1st round pick we received. But so far, some of us continue to believe we'd be better off with Ricky. That's not emotional or irrational. That's just a fact-based conclusion based on what we've seen so far. Others can reach a different conclusion and explain it. But that doesn't make the the contrary conclusion irrational or overly emotional.

As for Wiggins, who declared he's a great or not great player?? I simply said I liked the way he played last night and in the 1st game. I believe I said his play this two games is a reminder of how great he can be. Is that a declaration he's great? Or not great?

The irrational emotion I see is in those who seem offended by any assessment of a player's performance in particular games -- somehow seeing things in what others write that isn't there.
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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
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Re: Game Report - Wolves v. Jazz

Post by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728] »

lipoli390 wrote:
Duke13 wrote:Lip, I get that there is a lot of emotion involved with losing a player like Rubio. But man it's been two games. And to try and hammer that point after two games is a bit irrational. And we don't need to declare Wiggins a great player or not a great player after every game. Khans you continue to be the most rational and on point poster on the board.


It's not irrational or emotion-driven to say we would have been better off the past two games with Ricky based on what we've seen the past two games and what we know about both players. That's a very fair fact-based observation. I believe that's all Q and Bleed said and i know that's all i said. As i said, Teague played well defensively late in the 4th. I also noted that we'll have to see how this plays out over the season. By the end of the season, we may all look back and conclude that the swap was a net plus for us, especially when you factor in the 2018 1st round pick we received. But so far, some of us continue to believe we'd be better off with Ricky. That's not emotional or irrational. That's just a fact-based conclusion based on what we've seen so far. Others can reach a different conclusion and explain it. But that doesn't make the the contrary conclusion irrational or overly emotional.

As for Wiggins, who declared he's a great or not great player?? I simply said I liked the way he played last night and in the 1st game. I believe I said his play this two games is a reminder of how great he can be. Is that a declaration he's great? Or not great?

The irrational emotion I see is in those who seem offended by any assessment of a player's performance in particular games -- somehow seeing things in what others write that isn't there.


It's not a fact. It's a guess. You cannot factually know we would be better with Ricky because we don't have Ricky anymore to play with this team. You can guess we'd be better offensively just as I'd guess that we'd actually be worse with a starting 5 of Ricky, Butler, Wiggins, Gibson and Towns because of the shooting deficiencies and the clogged up lanes not only closing passing lanes for Ricky, but would also give us no room to score around the bucket for Towns, Butler or Wiggins. Oh and now you've taken the ball out of Butler and Wiggins hands to make Ricky valuable at all thus lowering their value on the court. As mediocre as Teague has been, he hasn't dominated the ball either. Ricky has a 25.8 usage rate with Utah. Given the talent on our roster, having a player of Ricky's caliber ending 26% of positions either positively or negatively is a downgrade in quality we could get from our big 3 getting those possessions. The irrational emotion here is we have this new team with several good players that will take time to gel and all people can do here is bitch that we don't have Ricky anymore after we just beat him. Ricky getting praised in a game he lost. It's a familiar feeling on here. Hopefully the winning will finally drown out the praise for the losers.
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bleedspeed
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Re: Game Report - Wolves v. Jazz

Post by bleedspeed »

I just go to the moment Bulter and Rubio were going at each other and thought. Man it would have been great to see those two guys playing together. If you have both of them as leaders on a team it would have been something. Teague will never be a leader. He has not been in the past and won't be in the future. Everyone says give Teague time to figure it out. That makes me wonder why it Rubio seems to be clicking from the start with the Jazz. That team just lost its best player on a borderline playoff team and we gained a 3rd team all-NBA player and barely beat them after they lost Hood. I slowly have been stepping off the Thibs bandwagon after the drafting of Dunn. Now I am fully off after the trade of Rubio.

We have to be honest about honest here. Teague was traded from the Hawks for a reason and there is a reason the Pacers didn't want him back. Maybe I will be proven wrong in the long haul, but the early going it doesn't look good and in the NBA most teams know by December if they are going to the playoffs or not. Slow starts are very telling.
mjs34
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Re: Game Report - Wolves v. Jazz

Post by mjs34 »

bleedspeed177 wrote:I just go to the moment Bulter and Rubio were going at each other and thought. Man it would have been great to see those two guys playing together. If you have both of them as leaders on a team it would have been something. Teague will never be a leader. He has not been in the past and won't be in the future. Everyone says give Teague time to figure it out. That makes me wonder why it Rubio seems to be clicking from the start with the Jazz. That team just lost its best player on a borderline playoff team and we gained a 3rd team all-NBA player and barely beat them after they lost Hood. I slowly have been stepping off the Thibs bandwagon after the drafting of Dunn. Now I am fully off after the trade of Rubio.

We have to be honest about honest here. Teague was traded from the Hawks for a reason and there is a reason the Pacers didn't want him back. Maybe I will be proven wrong in the long haul, but the early going it doesn't look good and in the NBA most teams know by December if they are going to the playoffs or not. Slow starts are very telling.


Bleed, I was thinking the same thing last night. Why was Snyder able to get his team on the same page so fast but Thibs needs more time, particularly when Thibs is supposed to be this defensive Guru. I thought getting Butler and Gibson would have expedited the process. Someone else pointed out or asked the question, why were we guarding inside the 3 pt line at the end of the game. Why was Belly pulled when he and JC were responsible for keeping us in the game. Is Belly on a minutes restriction?

I was not a fan of the Thibs hiring (definitely not the dual role), but I figured I would give him some time. I was unsure about the Butler deal, mainly because I asked why Chicago was willing to move him. You don't see teams trade their star players unless they want out, or are past their prime. I was also nervous about the the Ricky trade, and then shelling out more dollars for Teague. The first round pick isn't in the top half so it doesn't really carry that much value.

I think Thibs has tried to do too much at once, and I hope it doesn't cost this team in the end.
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BloopOracle
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Re: Game Report - Wolves v. Jazz

Post by BloopOracle »

BizarroJerry wrote:I see some of us are already in midseason form of complaining about our wins if it doesn't fit their narrative. I'm happy our bench guys got us the win, it's a team effort.


no kidding lol, you would think we lost the game reading this thread if you didn't get to see it last night
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Duke13
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Re: Game Report - Wolves v. Jazz

Post by Duke13 »

Bleed I see what you're saying but I just don't think it's that black and white. Like saying we added player A, B and C, they added H and F, they is how it should play out after two games.

Me being a Rubio detractor, I did miss his competitiveness last night, or leadership. Not sure that's in Teague's personality. And who's to say we need him to be. It's obviously he's playing a bit tentative. I would expect that to change. As Barrerio likes to say, let's let things marinate for a bit.
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60WinTim
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Re: Game Report - Wolves v. Jazz

Post by 60WinTim »

FACT: Wolves had a double digit lead about the time Wiggins entered the game for Belly in the 4th. Wiggins proceeded to have about the worst stretch of minutes a player could have: stupid turnover dribbling off his leg, getting blocked in traffic, guarding the wrong guy that led to a 3 (did you see Thibs giving him a tongue lashing with the timeout that immediately followed?), lack of hustle that allowed for that "clear path call", and the stupid foul with 5 seconds left. That is the ONLY reason this game was close at the end. We needed Crawford's heroics just to overcome Wiggins horrific play.

Yet Wiggins atrocious minutes are completely ignored and we are bickering about Rubio and Teague?!?

Give me a break. Wiggins needs to pull his head out of his ass.

Oh, and I guess I never realized how much Rubio flopped when he was on our team! :)
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Game Report - Wolves v. Jazz

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

60WinTim wrote:FACT: Wolves had a double digit lead about the time Wiggins entered the game for Belly in the 4th. Wiggins proceeded to have about the worst stretch of minutes a player could have: stupid turnover dribbling off his leg, getting blocked in traffic, guarding the wrong guy that led to a 3 (did you see Thibs giving him a tongue lashing with the timeout that immediately followed?), lack of hustle that allowed for that "clear path call", and the stupid foul with 5 seconds left. That is the ONLY reason this game was close at the end. We needed Crawford's heroics just to overcome Wiggins horrific play.

Yet Wiggins atrocious minutes are completely ignored and we are bickering about Rubio and Teague?!?

Give me a break. Wiggins needs to pull his head out of his ass.

Oh, and I guess I never realized how much Rubio flopped when he was on our team! :)


Agree on Wig...terrific scorer, not a great basketball player yet.

Agree that Ricky was and is a professional flopper!

Disagree about the lack of importance of comparing the PGs...hence the new thread, to isolate the discussion in one place.
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TAFKASP
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Re: Game Report - Wolves v. Jazz

Post by TAFKASP »

longstrangetrip wrote:Disagree about the lack of importance of comparing the PGs...hence the new thread, to isolate the discussion in one place.


While applaud your intent with that thread I have to point out that if you believe the Rubio/Teague debate will not infect every single thread on this forum for the next year or more you're not giving your fellow board members enough credit! :)
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TAFKASP
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Re: Game Report - Wolves v. Jazz

Post by TAFKASP »

bleedspeed177 wrote:Teague was traded from the Hawks for a reason and there is a reason the Pacers didn't want him back.


I'm not saying you're wrong, but the Pacers are going into full fledged rebuild mode and spending on an older guy like Teague is not going to help with that. The Hawks were also heading down that road, thus getting value in return for Teague makes sense.

I think it's fair to point out that Teague apparently did little to prevent either team from choosing the rebuild route. But I don't think the guy sucks because two teams that were at the end of their runs decided to cut bait.
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