Camden wrote:Layman has been playing better as of late, absolutely, but so was Culver before he got banged up. We need to remember that we have way more invested in Culver than we do Layman. Not to mention, Culver's ceiling is much higher than Layman's even with his wonky shot mechanics. Culver should be the player getting those wing minutes.
Cam - That's probably the better strategic approach. Culver's age, ceiling, salary and status as a 6th pick in the NBA draft all favor keeping him in the rotation over Layman if that's the choice. I'd feel better about Culver if his shot didn't continue to look broken. Would you put Culver in the starting lineup in place of Okogie when KAT returns?
Yes, absolutely. I wanted to see Culver in the starting lineup before the season tipped off. Part of that is because I think he's more of a two-way player than Okogie is and he keeps that lineup balanced offensively and defensively, but also because of the investment aspect I talked about previously.
If I had it my way using everything that we've seen this season so far, I'd start Russell, Beasley, Culver, McDaniels, and Towns when they're all healthy.
I prefer to see McLaughlin get the backup point guard minutes, but we know it'll be Rubio. So, the rest of the rotation should consist of Rubio, Nowell, Edwards, Vanderbilt, and Reid.
Layman would be my next man up should wing minutes become available again. Unfortunately, I think Okogie has played himself out of a rotation spot with his abysmal scoring/shooting ability. His defense hasn't been offsetting that either, in my opinion.
Yeah, I think the other point of fuzziness is the Layman vs. Culver minutes. Culver can definitely be useful against some of the elite lead guards that we simply have no one else on the roster to guard (including Okogie, who is better against bigger wings). But when Layman is cutting and running and hitting 3's, he's pretty damn effective out there.
Based on what we've seen from our players so far this season, but also factoring in what we've seen from them before, here are the guys I like and want to see playing for us the rest of the season:
1. KAT (obviously our best player and only allstar)
2. Nowell (I've been a Nowell guy from the time we drafted him in the second round two years ago. He's finally getting a chance to show why I loved the pick and was so unhappy with the team's failure to give him consistent minutes last season. I see a really talented two-way high IQ player in Nowell. He's a keeper and has to be part of our rotation going forward).
3. Reid (Terrific young talent on the offensive end who hustles and has lot of upside left)
4. Vando (Our best rebounder after KAT who brings Okogie's energy with more size)
5. Edwards (Had doubts on draft night and still do, but tremendous talent with better game feel and passing skills than I thought. He might not pan out, but he could become a star. He's definitely shown flashes)
6. Beasley (Has been our best player other than KAT. His defense is problematic as measured by defensive stats that FNG pointed out, but I love his offense as well as his toughness and competitiveness.
7. McDaniels (I now see why he entered college with many thinking he'd be a high lottery pick. Very talented and much better defender than I anticipated. Has all-star potential in my view. I have yet to see anything that would account for him falling out of favor and so far down in the first round).
8. JMac (My view of JMac is shaped mainly by what we saw from his last season since he hasn't had much of a chance yet this season. He's the sort of quick, penetrating PG that fits with this team and tends to make his teammates better around him).
I'm not suggesting that these 8 should be our rotation. I understand that DLO and/or Ricky will have to be part of the rotation with DLO starting and playing lots of minutes. I also see the argument for including Culver in the rotation. I think Cam made a good case for that. If nothing else, the Wolves need to give Culver the chance to enhance his trade value and that can't happen if he doesn't play. I also see the argument for including Layman in the rotation based on his recent play. He can light it up from 3 when he's on and he's probably our best cutter. He also plays really hard on both ends.
I'm just saying that the eight guys I listed are the ones I like watching and want to see get substantial playing time going forward. Whatever the rotation ends up being, I'll be really disappointed if at least the first 6 on my list aren't part of it. I get that it's not realistic to expect JMac to be part of the rotation unless the Wolves move either DLO or Ricky. The reason I'd include Vando over McDaniels in the rotation if forced to make a choice is simply strategic. That is, we only have Vando under contract until the end of this season while we have McDaniels locked up for a number of years. In other words, we have far less time to evaluate and develop Vando.
FNG wrote:If any of you have read my new thread re: offense vs. defense, you already know that I think the starting lineup Q lays out is a disaster on the defensive side of the court, and that is unacceptable to me. DLO/Malik/Ant each rank at the bottom of their position individually, and collectively they might rank as the worst defensive 1-3 in the history of the NBA! DLO is going to start...that's a given. But I continue to see Ant and Beasley as one-way players only, and big offense/poor defense players are tailor-made for a bench role. Not only do they provide instant offense off the bench, but ideally their defensive shortcomings are better hid if matched up with opponents' reserves.
PG, C and PF are fairly easy to predict, although J-Mac may be odd man out if Rubio and DLO are both available. While I love McDaniels' 2-way potential, he's only 19 and surprisingly doesn't grade out well in DRPM, especially compared to Vando. So my rotation at these three positions are the same as Q's (with Vando starting over McD)
KAT/Reid
Vando/McD
DLO/Rubio
The wing rotations are where I depart from the consensus here because of my distaste for very poor starting defense. We do have a wing who has the potential to be a true 2-way player, and that is Nowell...he actually grades out quite well both this year and last in DRPM, and we have also seen his ability to score, so he becomes my starter at the 2. Layman has played quite well on both sides of the court since his inauspicious start to the season, and as Cam says, Culver also was showing some signs of life before his injury. So I would like Ryan to start the one who is playing best, with the other relegated to 11th or 12th man. So at the wings:
Nowell/Beasley
Culver or Layman/Edwards
Out of the 10 man rotation are:
Okogie (we know his offense is horrible, but his defensive numbers are surprisingly subpar too...he needs some time in Iowa)
Juancho (time to give the young guys a chance at PF)
Davis (available if one of our centers is unavailable, and we know what he will bring)
J-Mac (just aren't enough minutes available yet assuming Rubio and DLO are healthy)
Layman or Culver (whoever is playing worse)
I like the defensive presence in the first unit paired with our two max scorers, and I love the firepower of the second unit.
Git 'er done!!!!
That starting lineup has been apart of the 6th best defensive team since Ant got put into the starting lineup.
Thanks for that information, kek...certainly some positive news during a season of futility. I'll add what others have said- our last 5 games have been against two of the worst offensive teams in the league (OkC and the Cavs) and the 17th ranked Spurs, and DLO's absence off and on, while hurting our offense, certainly helps our defensive rating. Still, 6th best is 6th best, and I'll take good news when it's out there. I'm still skeptical of a starting lineup that includes DLO, Beasley and Edwards (indisputably the worst defensive 1-3 in the league), so please continue to update our defensive stats when these three start.
