Q12543 wrote:Wiggins' has always been pretty good at those drives and kicks. I'm sure Khans remembers the play in Portland two seasons ago where Wiggins made a drive to the hoop then kicked it out to Rubio for the game-winning 3. Khans, you do remember that, don't you!?
Defensively, he's always been pretty solid when matched up one on one in isolation. I'm not sure how Wiggins makes this huge leap defensively people claim he made while adding Butler and Gibson and we are STILL near dead last in defensive FG% efficiency. We can't blame everything on KAT and Crawford.
I think folks are squinting REALLY hard to see improvement in Wiggins. The fact is by year 4 it needs to start showing up in pretty clear ways. I won't deny that there were some minor improvements along the margins for Wiggins, but he is still one of the most inefficient wings in the NBA and a mediocre rebounder and passer. None of those things have changed.
So a single drive and kick is your best example of him having that skill before? I'm talking about him actually utilizing 2 threats on drives to the hoop on every drive. He's now a legitimate threat to get to the bucket or make a really good pass to the perimeter on every drive to the rim. That just wasn't something he did before on a consistent basis. He would always attack the rim relentlessly and had complete tunnel vision. He's 2/3rds of the way to being a triple threat with the ball in his hands. If he can find a consistent shot it's game over. Also he had a few solid defensive possessions in previous years, but nothing compared to what he did in the Houston series at his peak. The play on Gordon where he stuck to him like glue for seemingly ever ending in the block at the rim was an elite defensive play. He had another where he used his length to guard the ball handler 25ft from the basket and get a steal like Kawhi does against poor ball handlers. Those are plays he hasn't made before. I don't have to squint to see these plays. They are blatantly obvious things that he did with more consistency down the final stretch of the season and into the playoffs.
He can only get to the bucket if he goes right. Nearly every team that does its scouting job on him knows this. He also gets stripped of the ball half the time, even if he does get a step. Then when he gets to the free throw line, he makes sub-70% of his shots. If I were an opposing defense, I would love nothing more than to end possessions with the ball in Wiggins' hands looking to drive from the perimeter. The math favors the defense...
Also, being able to kick the ball out isn't THAT great of a skill. He averaged 1.9 assists this season! Again, you are squinting too hard.....
Regardless I agree with Kahns Wiggins ability to drive and Kick to open shooters improved this season. How much does that matter? Idk but I'll say this on a team that honestly struggled at times to find the open man it was nice to see Wiggins do it especially to Belly. So yeah maybe the bar is low but I think we can give Wiggins game some credit for improvement without going overboard or being homers. Come on Q have a little more confidence in us. :)
I've posted exactly how low Wiggins ranks in assists among other starters and high-minute getters... and now we're blaming Belly and Tyus Jones for that?
It's 4 FULL years in. He's not going to be even a good passer for his position. There's very real reasons to think he won't ever even be average. The hope for many was always that he'd be such an elite scorer that the paltry assists + rebounds wouldn't matter as much... that he was just a slightly different superstar than those guys who fill several categories in the boxscore.
But that dream relies/relied on Wiggins improving his shooting and handle. There is tangible evidence to support a take that he regressed this season.
Cole Aldrich, 20th and 48th pick to Magic for Jonathan Simmons and 35th pick.
Gorgui Dieng, 20th and 48th pick to Nets for DeMarre Carroll, 29th and 45th pick.
Gorgui Dieng and 20th pick to Kings for Bogdan Bogdanovic and 36th pick.
Nice. I like the Nets trade the best. And this honestly looks reasonable and within the realm of possibility. I think we can trade Gorgui this summer and think you are positing some ways to get that done. Look at vets on rebuilding teams that can hang with Gorgui for a few years and not have it impact their trajectory.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Why would the Nets want Dieng?
My point is that there are teams out there that can tolerate taking on Dieng because they have a long window before being relevant. In Kiwi's trade the teams would covet the 20 pick and tolerate Dieng as part of a younger core.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Why would the Nets want Dieng?
My point is that there are teams out there that can tolerate taking on Dieng because they have a long window before being relevant. In Kiwi's trade the teams would covet the 20 pick and tolerate Dieng as part of a younger core.
Just not seeing nearly THAT much value between the #20 pick and the #29 pick.
Why not just ride out Carroll in his final year ($15.4M) instead of taking on Dieng for an additional two more years and an additional $33M...?
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Why would the Nets want Dieng?
My point is that there are teams out there that can tolerate taking on Dieng because they have a long window before being relevant. In Kiwi's trade the teams would covet the 20 pick and tolerate Dieng as part of a younger core.
Just not seeing nearly THAT much value between the #20 pick and the #29 pick.
Why not just ride out Carroll in his final year ($15.4M) instead of taking on Dieng for an additional two more years and an additional $33M...?
I thought there were 2 years on Carroll when I first responded to the post. Agreed with the one it is more challenging, they would probably just ride Carroll out then. I think the general philosophy of finding a rebuilding team with vets as a suitor for Gorgui is still a legit strategy, but you're right that Carroll may be a stretch for that deal.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Why would the Nets want Dieng?
My point is that there are teams out there that can tolerate taking on Dieng because they have a long window before being relevant. In Kiwi's trade the teams would covet the 20 pick and tolerate Dieng as part of a younger core.
Just not seeing nearly THAT much value between the #20 pick and the #29 pick.
Why not just ride out Carroll in his final year ($15.4M) instead of taking on Dieng for an additional two more years and an additional $33M...?
I thought there were 2 years on Carroll when I first responded to the post. Agreed with the one it is more challenging, they would probably just ride Carroll out then. I think the general philosophy of finding a rebuilding team with vets as a suitor for Gorgui is still a legit strategy, but you're right that Carroll may be a stretch for that deal.
These types of trade have some creativity and probably the sort of moves this team could make.
Carroll has value as a player teams basically would have to give up an asset to get him and the Nets probably value him for themselves. Remember he is playing for his old assistant coach in Atkinson.
The reality is probably the only realistic option is the Simmons trade and while it probably is a decent option he doesn't help much with the 3 point shooting and it feels like another trade where we trade assets for another team's role players they found/signed and we couldn't/didn't. Bogdonvich if I was the Kings you would have to give me a pretty good offer to get him. He can shoot, create for himself and others and doesn't suck on defense. How many NBA wings can you say that about?
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Why would the Nets want Dieng?
Teams like the Nets have to take on bad contracts to gain assets/picks. That's how it goes and this early into their rebuild I'm sure Dieng's contract would hardly hamstring them. Dieng would get plenty of minutes and certainly give them more production then who they currently have upfront.
Dieng and 20th pick for DeMarre Carroll, Isaiah Whitehead and 40th pick. Surely they'd take that. It would give them two 1st rounders in the 20's. They could package those two to move up in the draft.
