KG4Ever wrote:Butler for Korkmaz, Luwawu, Holmes, Chandler (salary filler) and two firsts (which includes Kings pick). http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybnhur9u
This would be atrocious.
Relax, dude, it won't happen but you aren't realistic if you think we could do much better. The reason it won't happen is that the 76ers gave the right to Boston in the Fulz trade to take either the 76ers pick or Sac pick (Boston is amazing) which I found out after posting this idea and also, Luwawu was just traded to OKC today (good move for OKC). Sac will be horrible and so that pick itself is probably worth more than one more year of Butler. Plus, Korkmaz could be a very good player and he's stuck on a very deep team. Luwawu is a nice project who was also stuck on a deep roster. Holmes played well when he got playing time and Chandler is an expiring contract. But getting rid of Butler may also help us get rid of Thibs and helps our draft position as we need to rebuild around KAT.
Thibs is not going to trade Butler for 3 guys who can't even get off the bench for the Sixers. Even if the pick is going to be good (it is top 1 protected) the 2019 draft is considered to be a weak draft.
Don't think Butler gets traded because Thibs would be firing himself making a trade. Also so much more value to be had out of Butler. Realistic Butler Trade would be Covington, Smith and the Miami pick for Butler.
Other trades that could be out there, Butler for OG/Miles/Siakam and a future pick. Butler for Knox and Hardaway JR and possibly a future pick.
Once again Thibs is not going fire himself trading Butler. I also don't know what is wrong with hoping this team can grow into something.
Well, if we rid ourselves of the stank that is Thibs or Glen forces a deal, it can be done. I prefer the former.
KG4Ever wrote:Butler for Korkmaz, Luwawu, Holmes, Chandler (salary filler) and two firsts (which includes Kings pick). http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybnhur9u
This would be atrocious.
Relax, dude, it won't happen but you aren't realistic if you think we could do much better. The reason it won't happen is that the 76ers gave the right to Boston in the Fulz trade to take either the 76ers pick or Sac pick (Boston is amazing) which I found out after posting this idea and also, Luwawu was just traded to OKC today (good move for OKC). Sac will be horrible and so that pick itself is probably worth more than one more year of Butler. Plus, Korkmaz could be a very good player and he's stuck on a very deep team. Luwawu is a nice project who was also stuck on a deep roster. Holmes played well when he got playing time and Chandler is an expiring contract. But getting rid of Butler may also help us get rid of Thibs and helps our draft position as we need to rebuild around KAT.
Thibs is not going to trade Butler for 3 guys who can't even get off the bench for the Sixers. Even if the pick is going to be good (it is top 1 protected) the 2019 draft is considered to be a weak draft.
Don't think Butler gets traded because Thibs would be firing himself making a trade. Also so much more value to be had out of Butler. Realistic Butler Trade would be Covington, Smith and the Miami pick for Butler.
Other trades that could be out there, Butler for OG/Miles/Siakam and a future pick. Butler for Knox and Hardaway JR and possibly a future pick.
Once again Thibs is not going fire himself trading Butler. I also don't know what is wrong with hoping this team can grow into something.
Well, if we rid ourselves of the stank that is Thibs or Glen forces a deal, it can be done. I prefer the former.
I would hate if Glen forces a deal, he hired Thibs to run the basketball operations let him run the basketball operations. Also it would be a terrible look for a owner to show no confidence in his GM and Head Coach. Who would want to be employed under that.
I defend Thibs a decent amount on this board mostly because I think it is so skewed one way on him. I just think it is a terrible look for the Wolves franchise to fire the coach after we had a 16 win improvement 2nd best in the NBA, got out of a 14 year playoff drought and that is with our best player missing a 1/4 of the season. The goal is to win games and Thibs did that better than anyone the last 14 years, love him or hate him not a good look to fire the 1st coach that had any type of success the Wolves have seen in a long time. Now if we are in the exact same spot this time next year. Fire Thibs but in my opinion way to soon to do that.
KG4Ever wrote:Butler for Korkmaz, Luwawu, Holmes, Chandler (salary filler) and two firsts (which includes Kings pick). http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybnhur9u
This would be atrocious.
Relax, dude, it won't happen but you aren't realistic if you think we could do much better. The reason it won't happen is that the 76ers gave the right to Boston in the Fulz trade to take either the 76ers pick or Sac pick (Boston is amazing) which I found out after posting this idea and also, Luwawu was just traded to OKC today (good move for OKC). Sac will be horrible and so that pick itself is probably worth more than one more year of Butler. Plus, Korkmaz could be a very good player and he's stuck on a very deep team. Luwawu is a nice project who was also stuck on a deep roster. Holmes played well when he got playing time and Chandler is an expiring contract. But getting rid of Butler may also help us get rid of Thibs and helps our draft position as we need to rebuild around KAT.
Thibs is not going to trade Butler for 3 guys who can't even get off the bench for the Sixers. Even if the pick is going to be good (it is top 1 protected) the 2019 draft is considered to be a weak draft.
Don't think Butler gets traded because Thibs would be firing himself making a trade. Also so much more value to be had out of Butler. Realistic Butler Trade would be Covington, Smith and the Miami pick for Butler.
Other trades that could be out there, Butler for OG/Miles/Siakam and a future pick. Butler for Knox and Hardaway JR and possibly a future pick.
Once again Thibs is not going fire himself trading Butler. I also don't know what is wrong with hoping this team can grow into something.
Well, if we rid ourselves of the stank that is Thibs or Glen forces a deal, it can be done. I prefer the former.
I would hate if Glen forces a deal, he hired Thibs to run the basketball operations let him run the basketball operations. Also it would be a terrible look for a owner to show no confidence in his GM and Head Coach. Who would want to be employed under that.
I defend Thibs a decent amount on this board mostly because I think it is so skewed one way on him. I just think it is a terrible look for the Wolves franchise to fire the coach after we had a 16 win improvement 2nd best in the NBA, got out of a 14 year playoff drought and that is with our best player missing a 1/4 of the season. The goal is to win games and Thibs did that better than anyone the last 14 years, love him or hate him not a good look to fire the 1st coach that had any type of success the Wolves have seen in a long time. Now if we are in the exact same spot this time next year. Fire Thibs but in my opinion way to soon to do that.
Geek - I think you nailed the reason Glen did not fire Thibs after last season. After his first season coaching the Wolves, there was absolutely not evidence that Thibodeau made a positive difference as head coach. We finished with essentially the same record we had the year before under Sam Mitchell with the same players even though those players had a whole year of additional NBA experience when Thibs coached them. But Glen understandably declined to fire This after only one season. Instead, Glen gave Thibodeau the PBO crate balance to remake the roster as he saw fit. Those roster changes, along with the development of KAT and Wiggins, lead to a big jump in in wins and an 8th playoff seed. Although I disliked the Thibodeau hire in the first place and would have liked to move on from him after last season, Glen understandably kept him.
This next season will appropriately be Thibodeau's season of reckoning. As PBO, he's signed the players he wanted and has capped out the team in the process. He's had a full season with nearly all the players on the roster and 2 seasons with several of our core players. Great coaches get the most out of their players. We should expect a great head coach if we want the Wolves to have a chance at contending. Why should we expect less? Looking at the talent on the Wolves roster relative to the rest of the West, the Wolves should finish in the top 4 in the West and could finish as high as 2nd. Anything short of a top 4 finish should send Thibodeau out the door next Spring. But we'll see.
. But his vintage doesn't match up well with KAT and Wiggins and the window for championship contention is 4 years down the road when the Warriors and Lakers begin to slide. The Celtics and Sixers will be ready to capitalize. The Wolves won't.
lipoli390 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
BizarroJerry wrote:Boston shouldn't do anything. They'll be in the ECF against Toronto and will probably beat them.
Truth, unless Philly knocks off Toronto in the semis
I think the Celtics would trade Hayward and their Kings first round pick for Butler and Taj. The question is whether the Wolves should do that deal. Of course, as Kahns has made clear, Thibodeau isn't going to trade Butler. He probably has his eye on adding another ex-Bull if Noah or Deng gets bought out. :)
Why would Boston do that deal?
Several reason:
1. Because Hayward is a significant question mark coming back from his very serious injury. And he's a very expensive question mark at $32 million per year for 3 more years. Butler misses games, but he's not coming off a potentially career ending or career-altering injury like Hayward. And Butler is a better defender than Hayward.
2. Because it would enhance the Celtics' chances of re-signing Kyrie next summers given that Butler and Kyrie want to play together.
3. Adding Butler and Taj to Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Horford and Smart under a top flight head coach ensures that the Celtics have the edge over the recently upgraded Raptors and would actually give the Celtics a shot at knocking off the Warriors in the finals.
The real question is why wouldn't they?
Gibson offers only middling value for that team. And Sacramento very well might be the worst team in basketball. That pick has A LOT of value.
Even though there are questions surrounding Hayward for obvious reasons, I don't think the injury is nearly as alarming as it was with Isaiah Thomas just last season. Before that, Hayward was pretty durable in his career.
So in summary... Because they could land better deals elsewhere.
. But his vintage doesn't match up well with KAT and Wiggins and the window for championship contention is 4 years down the road when the Warriors and Lakers begin to slide. The Celtics and Sixers will be ready to capitalize. The Wolves won't.
lipoli390 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
BizarroJerry wrote:Boston shouldn't do anything. They'll be in the ECF against Toronto and will probably beat them.
Truth, unless Philly knocks off Toronto in the semis
I think the Celtics would trade Hayward and their Kings first round pick for Butler and Taj. The question is whether the Wolves should do that deal. Of course, as Kahns has made clear, Thibodeau isn't going to trade Butler. He probably has his eye on adding another ex-Bull if Noah or Deng gets bought out. :)
Why would Boston do that deal?
Several reason:
1. Because Hayward is a significant question mark coming back from his very serious injury. And he's a very expensive question mark at $32 million per year for 3 more years. Butler misses games, but he's not coming off a potentially career ending or career-altering injury like Hayward. And Butler is a better defender than Hayward.
2. Because it would enhance the Celtics' chances of re-signing Kyrie next summers given that Butler and Kyrie want to play together.
3. Adding Butler and Taj to Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Horford and Smart under a top flight head coach ensures that the Celtics have the edge over the recently upgraded Raptors and would actually give the Celtics a shot at knocking off the Warriors in the finals.
The real question is why wouldn't they?
Gibson offers only middling value for that team. And Sacramento very well might be the worst team in basketball. That pick has A LOT of value.
Even though there are questions surrounding Hayward for obvious reasons, I don't think the injury is nearly as alarming as it was with Isaiah Thomas just last season. Before that, Hayward was pretty durable in his career.
So in summary... Because they could land better deals elsewhere.
I disagree that the Celtics can get better a better return than Butler and Gibson for Hayward and that pick. Gibson has dual value as a very solid PF on an expiring deal. And Butler is a guy who can help the Celtics win now as well as ensuing years while also helping them retain Kyrie based on the relationship between the two. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. For me, the question is whether the Wolves should do that deal because I'm convinced the Celtics would do it in a heartbeat. But of course, Thibodeau would never trade one of his beloved ex-Bull players.
crazy-canuck wrote:Dudley just got traded to ther nets. They have talked about a buyout.
Id take him for the vet minimum.
If he's fine potentially riding the bench for most of the year I'd go for it. I know people want a more consistent bench wing to be added to the team, but the fact is that guy either takes all of Okogie's minutes or he just doesn't play except in the games Rose and Butler are injured. That's a tough balancing act. You either stifle Okogie's development or you piss off the vet who wants to play unless they come in knowing they ride the bench until an injury or as a backup if Okogie is just trash.
And when's the last time Thibs played a 10 man rotation consistently let alone adding an 11th guy to play on the wing? Whoever comes in needs to be ready to ride the pine most of the year.
crazy-canuck wrote:Dudley just got traded to ther nets. They have talked about a buyout.
Id take him for the vet minimum.
If he's fine potentially riding the bench for most of the year I'd go for it. I know people want a more consistent bench wing to be added to the team, but the fact is that guy either takes all of Okogie's minutes or he just doesn't play except in the games Rose and Butler are injured. That's a tough balancing act. You either stifle Okogie's development or you piss off the vet who wants to play unless they come in knowing they ride the bench until an injury or as a backup if Okogie is just trash.
And when's the last time Thibs played a 10 man rotation consistently let alone adding an 11th guy to play on the wing? Whoever comes in needs to be ready to ride the pine most of the year.
He was glued to the bench in Phoenix and as far as i know was still a good teammate. He isn't as good a on the ball defender tucker was, but he's been a good team defender and is a much better 3 ball spot up shooter.
crazy-canuck wrote:Dudley just got traded to ther nets. They have talked about a buyout.
Id take him for the vet minimum.
If he's fine potentially riding the bench for most of the year I'd go for it. I know people want a more consistent bench wing to be added to the team, but the fact is that guy either takes all of Okogie's minutes or he just doesn't play except in the games Rose and Butler are injured. That's a tough balancing act. You either stifle Okogie's development or you piss off the vet who wants to play unless they come in knowing they ride the bench until an injury or as a backup if Okogie is just trash.
And when's the last time Thibs played a 10 man rotation consistently let alone adding an 11th guy to play on the wing? Whoever comes in needs to be ready to ride the pine most of the year.
He was glued to the bench in Phoenix and as far as i know was still a good teammate. He isn't as good a on the ball defender tucker was, but he's been a good team defender and is a much better 3 ball spot up shooter.
Just a quick chime in on Dudley. I believe the numbers said the suns were a better team whe he was on the floor so...yeah there was a good reason for him to be glued on the bench...
We're deep in to free agency and the Wolves still have 3 open roster slots of which they are likely to fill 2. Thibodeau has to know by now who he'd prefer among the available free agents. So what gives? Why the delay? Money can't be the issue because none of the remaining unrestricted free agents are going to get offers from any team above the vet minimum and the Wolves can't pay more than the minimum without hitting the luxury tax threshold. So the delay has to be attributable to one or more of the following three things:
1. The free agents Thibodeau wants are holding out for vet minimum offers from other teams they'd prefer to play for. This is probably the most likely reason. If you're a free agent right now and you're sorting out non-monetary factors, you're weighing playing time and work environement. Everyone knows that Thibodeau plays his bench sparingly compared to most other teams so the playing time factor weights heavily against getting free agents to play for the Wolves at this point. And as Thorpe said, players around the League don't view Thibodeau as fun to play for. Duh.
2. Thibodeau is holding out for the possibility that some players he prefers get released or bought out. I'd consider this the second most likely factor after the first one I mentioned above. If so, it would be interesting to see Thibodeau's list of players he wants who might reasonably be expected to get bought out or released yet this summer. I'm still thinking Noah or Luel Deng - although I read recently that GMs around the League consider Deng semi-retired. I think it's clear Deng has no game left, but since Thibodeau seem caught in a time warp in relation to his former Bulls players, I'm not sure he knows that.
3. The Wolves are holding off to retain flexibility for a possible trade -- giving the team roster spots and some room under the luxury tax threshold to widen the trade possibilities. This could be one of the reasons, but I doubt it. That's not how Thibodeau operates. He rarely makes significant deals and if he does, as he did with Butler, he doesn't early and only once in a year.
The delay has to be for one of these three reasons, more likely the first two and possibly a combination of those two. It can't be because the Wolves front office hasn't made up it's mind yet on who they'd prefer. If at this late date, they still haven't decided who they'd prefer and pursued signing them, then our front office is even less competent than I thought.
