lipoli390 wrote:Well, does anyone really need to believe that Thibs was the source of Robinson's mental health issues to conclude that Thibodeau isn't somone you'd want as your boss? Does anyone really believe that Thibodeau is a net plus attracting free agents? Watching and listening to his constant bellowing from the bench and feeling the oppressive negativity that emanates from him is enough for me to know I wouldn't want to work of play for him. Add in his reputation for not using his bench, and guess what -- the Wolves will be well down the list of nearly every free agent.
Our Commander in Chief said last year that he could shoot somebody in the middle of 5th avenue and not lose any voters. I wonder what Thibs could do and not lose the support of his base here :)! My god, a popular player in the NBA who has played for a dozen coaches specifically mentions Larry Brown (a well-known dick) and Thibs as the reasons for his depression and mental health issues, and several here don't see this as an issue for the Wolves. (Monster-I didn't think I had to link the article...it's right on the front page for ESPN). This is the impact he has on his players...not all of them, but some. And that is not what I want for my team, or what is going to lead to success for this franchise. I linked the video of Thibs' rolling his eyes when the sideline reporter asked him if he noticed Robinson vomiting on the bench, because it is so indicative of what those of us who actually go to games and watch Thibs see every night. Glen sees it every night too, and also is privy to behind the scenes issues that the season ticket holders don't see. But still he elected not to remove Thibs at the end of the season...very disappointing. The Thibs situation feels a lot like it did in Chicago...unhappy fan base and clashes with the management team despite a positive win/loss record, and it took the Bulls a while to make the move too. I think it is better than even money the Thibs is gone by mid-season, and that will be disruptive and likely lead to a lost season. How much better off this franchise would have been if Glen had done the right thing in early May.
Well your mind is made up on Thibs (honestly feels like you have a blind hate for the guy) and there is no reason for me to engage in this topic for me anymore.
Monster -- I guess I'll engage with you a bit on this. I can tell you that I don't have hate, blind of otherwise, for Thibodeau. And I'm guessing LST doesn't either. If he does, it's certainly not blind. It's based on watching Thibodeau in action live in the arena dozens and dozens of times. It's based on what has been well chronicled in Chicago as Thibodeau alienating both management and a number of players. It's based on what both Doogie and Jon K have reported recently. It's based on multiple free agents like Belinelli, Ilyasova and others having no interest in coming here. It's based on public comments from Teague and Gibson criticizing Thibs for failing to make more and better use of the bench. It's based on Thibodeau what he said was the most talented young roster in the NBA and coaching them to essentially the record as Sam Mitchell even though they were more experienced and had finished really strong the season before. It's based on capping out the team with all the players he wanted and still barely landing the 8th seed in the West. And finally, it's based on what LST has heard behind the scenes from his connections.
So I don't LST hates Thibodeau personally. I know I don't. Heck I don't even know him personally. I think LST hates the fact that Thibodeau is both head coach and PBO of the team he loves. There's certainly strong grounds for his hatred in that sense. And I feel the same way.
lipoli390 wrote:Well, does anyone really need to believe that Thibs was the source of Robinson's mental health issues to conclude that Thibodeau isn't somone you'd want as your boss? Does anyone really believe that Thibodeau is a net plus attracting free agents? Watching and listening to his constant bellowing from the bench and feeling the oppressive negativity that emanates from him is enough for me to know I wouldn't want to work of play for him. Add in his reputation for not using his bench, and guess what -- the Wolves will be well down the list of nearly every free agent.
Our Commander in Chief said last year that he could shoot somebody in the middle of 5th avenue and not lose any voters. I wonder what Thibs could do and not lose the support of his base here :)! My god, a popular player in the NBA who has played for a dozen coaches specifically mentions Larry Brown (a well-known dick) and Thibs as the reasons for his depression and mental health issues, and several here don't see this as an issue for the Wolves. (Monster-I didn't think I had to link the article...it's right on the front page for ESPN). This is the impact he has on his players...not all of them, but some. And that is not what I want for my team, or what is going to lead to success for this franchise. I linked the video of Thibs' rolling his eyes when the sideline reporter asked him if he noticed Robinson vomiting on the bench, because it is so indicative of what those of us who actually go to games and watch Thibs see every night. Glen sees it every night too, and also is privy to behind the scenes issues that the season ticket holders don't see. But still he elected not to remove Thibs at the end of the season...very disappointing. The Thibs situation feels a lot like it did in Chicago...unhappy fan base and clashes with the management team despite a positive win/loss record, and it took the Bulls a while to make the move too. I think it is better than even money the Thibs is gone by mid-season, and that will be disruptive and likely lead to a lost season. How much better off this franchise would have been if Glen had done the right thing in early May.
Well your mind is made up on Thibs (honestly feels like you have a blind hate for the guy) and there is no reason for me to engage in this topic for me anymore.
Monster -- I guess I'll engage with you a bit on this. I can tell you that I don't have hate, blind of otherwise, for Thibodeau. And I'm guessing LST doesn't either. If he does, it's certainly not blind. It's based on watching Thibodeau in action live in the arena dozens and dozens of times. It's based on what has been well chronicled in Chicago as Thibodeau alienating both management and a number of players. It's based on what both Doogie and Jon K have reported recently. It's based on multiple free agents like Belinelli, Ilyasova and others having no interest in coming here. It's based on public comments from Teague and Gibson criticizing Thibs for failing to make more and better use of the bench. It's based on Thibodeau what he said was the most talented young roster in the NBA and coaching them to essentially the record as Sam Mitchell even though they were more experienced and had finished really strong the season before. It's based on capping out the team with all the players he wanted and still barely landing the 8th seed in the West. And finally, it's based on what LST has heard behind the scenes from his connections.
So I don't LST hates Thibodeau personally. I know I don't. Heck I don't even know him personally. I think LST hates the fact that Thibodeau is both head coach and PBO of the team he loves. There's certainly strong grounds for his hatred in that sense. And I feel the same way.
Everyone is entitled to their position or opinion. I do try and respect that. Notice I said "feels like" in my post. Thanks Lip for outlining your personal position.
You engaged me with your post respectfully and I feel this is a good time as any (wanted to say something for a while) to say the last year or so we have kinda got into it on this board. I apologize for that. On this forum we all have different perspectives views and information and that's part of why we come here. I have a lot of respect for you as a person and a poster. Here on this board we are all on the same side as Wolves fans. I'll try and quit focusing on some detail of your post and look more at the overall point you are trying to make instead...sorry for the post in another thread I made about Teague's FA last summer a few minutes ago.
I know we actually all hope for the best for this franchise AND see some of the things that are troubling in pretty much any situation. This is a place where we can come and make some sense of it all and get some other perspectives and info. I personally enjoy this board more when it's a cooperative enterprise than competing about who is right. Not everyone else would agree with that though which is ok too.
Anyway Lip specifically I hope we can kinda move past some of the interactions of the past few months and therefore have even better dialog about our favorite team.
This latest Nate Robinson stuff is funny... not the mental health stuff. But the way the people on the forum used this article for their own all-too-predictable agenda. Brown, D'Antoni, Gentry, Thibs, and multiple other coaches... "It's all on Thibs! See!!!!"
The horse is dead, boys.
I don't know if Thibs has a person on this forum firmly in his corner. So still beating the dead horse incessantly whenever you walk past it seems a bit unnecessary. Good gawd.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:This latest Nate Robinson stuff is funny... not the mental health stuff. But the way the people on the forum used this article for their own all-too-predictable agenda. Brown, D'Antoni, Gentry, Thibs, and multiple other coaches... "It's all on Thibs! See!!!!"
The horse is dead, boys.
I don't know if Thibs has a person on this forum firmly in his corner. So still beating the dead horse incessantly whenever you walk past it seems a bit unnecessary. Good gawd.
Hmm...not so sure. I think if we did a poll on whether we would like it if Thibs was replaced today, I think the board would be divided...I would be in favor, but I think the majority want to give him another chance (in true Minnesota style).
We have a coach who already has a reputation, and an article just came out where an NBA veteran specifically cites him and Larry Brown (not all the other coaches you name) as the reasons for his mental health issues. We all are interested in bringing in the right free agent to fill out this roster, not another guy who can't get off Thibs' bench, and comments like Nate's just aren't helpful in that quest. If suggesting that Nate Robinson's comments are not positive for us in the free agent market constitutes "beating a dead horse", then I'll cop to being an inveterate horse beater. But I think there may be a couple people on this board that see some significance in it as I do.
The Dwight Howard for Mosgov deal (Kind of a weird one) makes it even tougher to see Dieng being moved as the Nets were a team that could have absorbed his deal. It does show a path for that type of player to be moved though and Dieng at this point in time is a more valuable player than Mosgov is.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:This latest Nate Robinson stuff is funny... not the mental health stuff. But the way the people on the forum used this article for their own all-too-predictable agenda. Brown, D'Antoni, Gentry, Thibs, and multiple other coaches... "It's all on Thibs! See!!!!"
The horse is dead, boys.
I don't know if Thibs has a person on this forum firmly in his corner. So still beating the dead horse incessantly whenever you walk past it seems a bit unnecessary. Good gawd.
Hmm...not so sure. I think if we did a poll on whether we would like it if Thibs was replaced today, I think the board would be divided...I would be in favor, but I think the majority want to give him another chance (in true Minnesota style).
We have a coach who already has a reputation, and an article just came out where an NBA veteran specifically cites him and Larry Brown (not all the other coaches you name) as the reasons for his mental health issues. We all are interested in bringing in the right free agent to fill out this roster, not another guy who can't get off Thibs' bench, and comments like Nate's just aren't helpful in that quest. If suggesting that Nate Robinson's comments are not positive for us in the free agent market constitutes "beating a dead horse", then I'll cop to being an inveterate horse beater. But I think there may be a couple people on this board that see some significance in it as I do.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:This latest Nate Robinson stuff is funny... not the mental health stuff. But the way the people on the forum used this article for their own all-too-predictable agenda. Brown, D'Antoni, Gentry, Thibs, and multiple other coaches... "It's all on Thibs! See!!!!"
The horse is dead, boys.
I don't know if Thibs has a person on this forum firmly in his corner. So still beating the dead horse incessantly whenever you walk past it seems a bit unnecessary. Good gawd.
Hmm...not so sure. I think if we did a poll on whether we would like it if Thibs was replaced today, I think the board would be divided...I would be in favor, but I think the majority want to give him another chance (in true Minnesota style).
We have a coach who already has a reputation, and an article just came out where an NBA veteran specifically cites him and Larry Brown (not all the other coaches you name) as the reasons for his mental health issues. We all are interested in bringing in the right free agent to fill out this roster, not another guy who can't get off Thibs' bench, and comments like Nate's just aren't helpful in that quest. If suggesting that Nate Robinson's comments are not positive for us in the free agent market constitutes "beating a dead horse", then I'll cop to being an inveterate horse beater. But I think there may be a couple people on this board that see some significance in it as I do.
I actually don't think many if any would choose to keep Thibs if the option was stay or go right now. However there is a divide when it comes to calling for his head at every turn and claiming almost guaranteed disaster when it's almost unprecedented to fire him based on last year's success and this franchise's lack of success for over a decade. At the end of the day the coach and GM are responsible for putting a winning team on the floor and that's what he's done in both roles. Continuing to call for his head after every article is beating a dead horse because he's just not going anywhere right now. You're literally creating the people who defend him because Thibs just hasn't earned the constant and repeated hate he has on here. Year 1 he figured out what he had on the team. Year 2 he made a blockbuster deal to improve the team and we did so significantly. Year 3 is all about filling in the gaps now that are created when you have that much roster turnover and winning more games. He frankly has just earned more time in both roles to let things play out for a little longer.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:This latest Nate Robinson stuff is funny... not the mental health stuff. But the way the people on the forum used this article for their own all-too-predictable agenda. Brown, D'Antoni, Gentry, Thibs, and multiple other coaches... "It's all on Thibs! See!!!!"
The horse is dead, boys.
I don't know if Thibs has a person on this forum firmly in his corner. So still beating the dead horse incessantly whenever you walk past it seems a bit unnecessary. Good gawd.
Hmm...not so sure. I think if we did a poll on whether we would like it if Thibs was replaced today, I think the board would be divided...I would be in favor, but I think the majority want to give him another chance (in true Minnesota style).
We have a coach who already has a reputation, and an article just came out where an NBA veteran specifically cites him and Larry Brown (not all the other coaches you name) as the reasons for his mental health issues. We all are interested in bringing in the right free agent to fill out this roster, not another guy who can't get off Thibs' bench, and comments like Nate's just aren't helpful in that quest. If suggesting that Nate Robinson's comments are not positive for us in the free agent market constitutes "beating a dead horse", then I'll cop to being an inveterate horse beater. But I think there may be a couple people on this board that see some significance in it as I do.
I actually don't think many if any would choose to keep Thibs if the option was stay or go right now. However there is a divide when it comes to calling for his head at every turn and claiming almost guaranteed disaster when it's almost unprecedented to fire him based on last year's success and this franchise's lack of success for over a decade. At the end of the day the coach and GM are responsible for putting a winning team on the floor and that's what he's done in both roles. Continuing to call for his head after every article is beating a dead horse because he's just not going anywhere right now. You're literally creating the people who defend him because Thibs just hasn't earned the constant and repeated hate he has on here. Year 1 he figured out what he had on the team. Year 2 he made a blockbuster deal to improve the team and we did so significantly. Year 3 is all about filling in the gaps now that are created when you have that much roster turnover and winning more games. He frankly has just earned more time in both roles to let things play out for a little longer.
Sneaking into the 8th seed isn't exactly a success though. Not in my view anyways. Especially when when polled most GM's said KAT was the most valuable player in the NBA (who they would pick to start a team with). Thibs said this was the most talented roster in the NBA. And he signed/traded for 3 experienced vets/starters to go with the most talented young roster.
I expected this team to be a 3-5 seed, so underperformance is a failure in my book. The trajectory to a championship is not there as I see it, that's why you fire him. If you see this team winning a Championship then you keep him. I guess you see that happening in the next few years.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:This latest Nate Robinson stuff is funny... not the mental health stuff. But the way the people on the forum used this article for their own all-too-predictable agenda. Brown, D'Antoni, Gentry, Thibs, and multiple other coaches... "It's all on Thibs! See!!!!"
The horse is dead, boys.
I don't know if Thibs has a person on this forum firmly in his corner. So still beating the dead horse incessantly whenever you walk past it seems a bit unnecessary. Good gawd.
Hmm...not so sure. I think if we did a poll on whether we would like it if Thibs was replaced today, I think the board would be divided...I would be in favor, but I think the majority want to give him another chance (in true Minnesota style).
We have a coach who already has a reputation, and an article just came out where an NBA veteran specifically cites him and Larry Brown (not all the other coaches you name) as the reasons for his mental health issues. We all are interested in bringing in the right free agent to fill out this roster, not another guy who can't get off Thibs' bench, and comments like Nate's just aren't helpful in that quest. If suggesting that Nate Robinson's comments are not positive for us in the free agent market constitutes "beating a dead horse", then I'll cop to being an inveterate horse beater. But I think there may be a couple people on this board that see some significance in it as I do.
I actually don't think many if any would choose to keep Thibs if the option was stay or go right now. However there is a divide when it comes to calling for his head at every turn and claiming almost guaranteed disaster when it's almost unprecedented to fire him based on last year's success and this franchise's lack of success for over a decade. At the end of the day the coach and GM are responsible for putting a winning team on the floor and that's what he's done in both roles. Continuing to call for his head after every article is beating a dead horse because he's just not going anywhere right now. You're literally creating the people who defend him because Thibs just hasn't earned the constant and repeated hate he has on here. Year 1 he figured out what he had on the team. Year 2 he made a blockbuster deal to improve the team and we did so significantly. Year 3 is all about filling in the gaps now that are created when you have that much roster turnover and winning more games. He frankly has just earned more time in both roles to let things play out for a little longer.
Think your last statement frames things perfectly. Thibs sat on his hands and evaluated year 1 and what the Wolves were, were not good enough. He's only picked out his own groceries once and it resulted in a sixteen game jump.
Whatever though, a lot of us have been around for a long time and there's not one Wolves coach a majority of us would defer to. We're all smarter than Flip, McHale, Casey, Adelman, Mitchell, and Thibs. Wolves fans won't like a coach until one hoists up the Larry O'Brien, but even then are we sure Tyus Jones got enough shots?
AbeVigodaLive wrote:This latest Nate Robinson stuff is funny... not the mental health stuff. But the way the people on the forum used this article for their own all-too-predictable agenda. Brown, D'Antoni, Gentry, Thibs, and multiple other coaches... "It's all on Thibs! See!!!!"
The horse is dead, boys.
I don't know if Thibs has a person on this forum firmly in his corner. So still beating the dead horse incessantly whenever you walk past it seems a bit unnecessary. Good gawd.
Hmm...not so sure. I think if we did a poll on whether we would like it if Thibs was replaced today, I think the board would be divided...I would be in favor, but I think the majority want to give him another chance (in true Minnesota style).
We have a coach who already has a reputation, and an article just came out where an NBA veteran specifically cites him and Larry Brown (not all the other coaches you name) as the reasons for his mental health issues. We all are interested in bringing in the right free agent to fill out this roster, not another guy who can't get off Thibs' bench, and comments like Nate's just aren't helpful in that quest. If suggesting that Nate Robinson's comments are not positive for us in the free agent market constitutes "beating a dead horse", then I'll cop to being an inveterate horse beater. But I think there may be a couple people on this board that see some significance in it as I do.
I actually don't think many if any would choose to keep Thibs if the option was stay or go right now. However there is a divide when it comes to calling for his head at every turn and claiming almost guaranteed disaster when it's almost unprecedented to fire him based on last year's success and this franchise's lack of success for over a decade. At the end of the day the coach and GM are responsible for putting a winning team on the floor and that's what he's done in both roles. Continuing to call for his head after every article is beating a dead horse because he's just not going anywhere right now. You're literally creating the people who defend him because Thibs just hasn't earned the constant and repeated hate he has on here. Year 1 he figured out what he had on the team. Year 2 he made a blockbuster deal to improve the team and we did so significantly. Year 3 is all about filling in the gaps now that are created when you have that much roster turnover and winning more games. He frankly has just earned more time in both roles to let things play out for a little longer.
Sneaking into the 8th seed isn't exactly a success though. Not in my view anyways. Especially when when polled most GM's said KAT was the most valuable player in the NBA (who they would pick to start a team with). Thibs said this was the most talented roster in the NBA. And he signed/traded for 3 experienced vets/starters to go with the most talented young roster.
I expected this team to be a 3-5 seed, so underperformance is a failure in my book. The trajectory to a championship is not there as I see it, that's why you fire him. If you see this team winning a Championship then you keep him. I guess you see that happening in the next few years.
I don't think there is any path to a title for this team because of our market and our current players. That doesn't mean I want to blow it all up and start over again though because you're just gonna be bad forever if your expectation is a perfect rebuild into a title contender because it doesn't happen often and usually needs a lot of help a Minnesota market isn't getting. If your expectations before the season were 3-5 seed with Jimmy missing 23 games then your expectations were just flat out too high. Secondary teams just can't lose their best player for that long and still be a top seed. SA got 7th with Kawaii out so I guess they were a disappointment as well. That doesn't make sense. Talent and production are two different things. Calling us the best young roster in the league was based on our talent and it was under the assumption Towns would play defense and Wiggins would improve his game more. Neither of those happened and that's not all on Thibs. If Belly and Tyus can improve under him that signals more of Towns and Wiggins being at fault for their lack of development under Thibs than his fault.
You're just gonna be disappointed in this franchise forever if you are title or bust so I don't see the point. We're not one of the 8 teams that get to win the title. Welcome to basketball where it's been that way pretty much forever. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy the ride while we're good because the next time we're bad it might take another decade to get out of that hole.
