https://clutchpoints.com/timberwolves-news-minnesota-trying-re-sign-shabazz-muhammad/
This would seem obvious, but I have to think someone else will sign him
Bazz
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
- Posts: 13844
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Bazz
The Wolves are desperate. Right now our 3rd wing is an aging shot maker that is increasingly not making shots and has never played defense. Our 4th wing is on the D-league squad. So yeah.....no stone should go unturned.
Re: Bazz
Thibs made it clear in his recent season ticket holder breakfast that the Wolves were trying to re-sign Bazz. I really hope it happens. Although I still have my doubts, Bazz does have some rational reasons to re-sign here even though I'm sure he can get more than the minimum elsewhere. Those reasons include the following:
1. Longer-term payoff. Re-signing with the Wolves would restore the Wolves Bird rights over Bazz, which means the Wolves could pay him anything they want after this next season without cap limitations other teams would have. Bazz already knows the Wolves value him having offered him a deal that must be significantly higher than the minimum. And now that Bazz has seen his limited market value around the League he may be more inclined to cast his lot with the Wolves at the League minimum for one year as part of a longer-term financial strategy rather than sign elsewhere for just a couple million more this next season with a team that would not have Bird rights to re-sign him.
2. Butler mentorship opportunity. Re-signing with the Wolves would give Bazz the opportunity for a one-year (perhaps longer) mentorship under Jimmy Butler. He may not get an offer higher than the minimum from a team with a player of Jimmy's stature at his position. Bazz might put a premium on this opportunity given what appears to be his low value around the League. In other words, it's probably been a bit humbling and a wake-up call to Bazz that he needs some significant improvement that a mentor like Butler can help him achieve.
3. Familiarity with system, coaches and teammates. Re-signing with the Wolves would provide Bazz with some continuity that could enhance his chances of succeeding.
4. Thibs likes him. It should be clear to Bazz that he won't be starting with any team that signs him given that he's still available this late in free-agency. The fact that he knows Thibs likes and has confidence in him should give Bazz more confidence in the chance of a meaningful role off the bench with the Wolves than he'd have with any other good team that might pay him slightly more than the minimum.
5. Lack of depth at his position. If Butler or Wiggins went down for any stretch of games, it should be obvious to Bazz that he'd likely be the first choice to fill in. That would be a great opportunity for him. Combined with the fact that Thibs likes Bazz and Bazz's familiarity with the Wolves system and players further increases his chance for meaningful opportunities off the bench and as part of the rotation.
6. Wolves team potential. Bazz has additional incentive to stay to remain with what looks like a winning team this next season -- a team that should finish in the top 5 or 6 of the Western Conference.
I still have my doubts that he'll re-sign here, but it's a realistic possibility. If Thibs pulls this off, he will be partially redeemed in my mind for his overpayment of Taj. :)
1. Longer-term payoff. Re-signing with the Wolves would restore the Wolves Bird rights over Bazz, which means the Wolves could pay him anything they want after this next season without cap limitations other teams would have. Bazz already knows the Wolves value him having offered him a deal that must be significantly higher than the minimum. And now that Bazz has seen his limited market value around the League he may be more inclined to cast his lot with the Wolves at the League minimum for one year as part of a longer-term financial strategy rather than sign elsewhere for just a couple million more this next season with a team that would not have Bird rights to re-sign him.
2. Butler mentorship opportunity. Re-signing with the Wolves would give Bazz the opportunity for a one-year (perhaps longer) mentorship under Jimmy Butler. He may not get an offer higher than the minimum from a team with a player of Jimmy's stature at his position. Bazz might put a premium on this opportunity given what appears to be his low value around the League. In other words, it's probably been a bit humbling and a wake-up call to Bazz that he needs some significant improvement that a mentor like Butler can help him achieve.
3. Familiarity with system, coaches and teammates. Re-signing with the Wolves would provide Bazz with some continuity that could enhance his chances of succeeding.
4. Thibs likes him. It should be clear to Bazz that he won't be starting with any team that signs him given that he's still available this late in free-agency. The fact that he knows Thibs likes and has confidence in him should give Bazz more confidence in the chance of a meaningful role off the bench with the Wolves than he'd have with any other good team that might pay him slightly more than the minimum.
5. Lack of depth at his position. If Butler or Wiggins went down for any stretch of games, it should be obvious to Bazz that he'd likely be the first choice to fill in. That would be a great opportunity for him. Combined with the fact that Thibs likes Bazz and Bazz's familiarity with the Wolves system and players further increases his chance for meaningful opportunities off the bench and as part of the rotation.
6. Wolves team potential. Bazz has additional incentive to stay to remain with what looks like a winning team this next season -- a team that should finish in the top 5 or 6 of the Western Conference.
I still have my doubts that he'll re-sign here, but it's a realistic possibility. If Thibs pulls this off, he will be partially redeemed in my mind for his overpayment of Taj. :)
Re: Bazz
lipoli390 wrote:Thibs made it clear in his recent season ticket holder breakfast that the Wolves were trying to re-sign Bazz. I really hope it happens. Although I still have my doubts, Bazz does have some rational reasons to re-sign here even though I'm sure he can get more than the minimum elsewhere. Those reasons include the following:
1. Longer-term payoff. Re-signing with the Wolves would restore the Wolves Bird rights over Bazz, which means the Wolves could pay him anything they want after this next season. Bazz already knows the Wolves value him having offered him a deal that must be significantly higher than the minimum. And now that Bazz has seen his limited market value around the League he may be more inclined to cast his lot with the Wolves at the League minimum for one year as part of a longer-term financial starategy rather than sign elsewhere for just a couple million more this next season with a team that would not have Bird rights to re-sign him.
2. Butler mentorship opportunity. Re-signing with the Wolves would give Bazz the opportunity for a one-year (perhaps longer) mentorship under Jimmy Butler. He may not get an offer higher than the minimum from a team with a player of Jimmy's stature at his position. Bazz might put a premium on this opportunity given what appears to be his low value around the League. In other words, it's probably been a bit humbling and a wake-up call to Bazz that he needs some significant improvement that a mentor like Butler can help him achieve.
3. Familiarity with system, coaches and teammates. Re-signing with the Wolves would provide Bazz with some continuity that could enhance his changes of succeeding.
4. Thibs likes him. It should be clear to Bazz that he won't be starting with any team that signs him given that he's still available this late in free-agency. That fact that he knows Thibs likes and has confidence in Bazz should give him more confidence in the chance of a meaningful role off the bench under Bazz.
5. Lack of depth at his position. If Butler or Wiggins went down for any stretch of games, it should be obvious to Bazz that he'd likely be the first choice to fill in. That would be a great opportunity for him.
6. Wolves team potential. Bazz has additional incentive to stay to be with what looks like a winning team this next season -- a team that should finish in the top 5 or 6 of the Western Conference.
I still have my doubts that he'll re-sign here, but it's a realistic possibility. If Thibs pulls this off, he will be partially redeemed in my mind for his overpayment of Taj. :)
Lip really outlined this nicely. I'll add that the money is going to be even more limited next offseason. Even more players will be fighting for any exceptions available to get paid more than the vet min. Being in a position to be able to pay more than the vet min could benefit both sides. Bazz likely knows that the Wolves value him and would actually give him a decent offer since they have done that twice now. In addition they could trade him to another team who would have some level of Bird rights if not the full Bird rights to resign him.
If the Wolves really go after Bazz and tell him they are really going to give him a role as a guy in the rotation (according to wolfson they haven't offered a number of other players) maybe they can convince him to come back. I remember Jim Pete saying a few times Bazz just needs to be shown some love. Show him the love Thibs and Layden and Glen!!! Lol
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MikeAz [enjin:6636981]
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Bazz
I'd love to see Bazz back and Lip makes a great case for why he should strongly consider it. Hopefully they can get something done.
Re: Bazz
Can someone explain the long term implications for signing Bazz to a one year deal? Does this give us Bird Rights (or early bird) even if it's a short deal? It seems clear we are headed to maxing out the cap so the only leverage I could see is if we had a stronger long term play than other teams. High risk for Bazz to take a paycut on his first deal and risk injury plus further limiting his exposure with the lack of playing time. If I was his business manager or agent I would go nowhere near this deal. But as a Wolves fan I'd love to see it happen.
Re: Bazz
thedoper wrote:Can someone explain the long term implications for signing Bazz to a one year deal? Does this give us Bird Rights (or early bird) even if it's a short deal? It seems clear we are headed to maxing out the cap so the only leverage I could see is if we had a stronger long term play than other teams. High risk for Bazz to take a paycut on his first deal and risk injury plus further limiting his exposure with the lack of playing time. If I was his business manager or agent I would go nowhere near this deal. But as a Wolves fan I'd love to see it happen.
Doper I'll try and explain this simply.
To have full Bird rights a player has to have contracts with a team 3 consecutive years. Only 10 day contracts don't count. This means they could sign 3 contracts each year it doesn't have to be consecutively. So signing back with the Wolves would give them those Bird rights.
The real question is what kind of deal moneywise is out there for Bazz and even if it's a bit more than what he would get her would he be assured of getting more minutes than he would here? There are some team out there with some money but the teams with much opportunity are limited and what teams really want to throw some decent money at him say 3 million? Idk but that's probably somewhere in the neighborhood of the best case scenario at this point.
Now if Bazz signs here and the Wolves want to bring him back they will be over the cap and the don't have to dip into an exception to sign him. To some extent if Bazz bets on himself here and let's say he shots a healthy percentage from 3 and plays more acceptable defense. The Wolves probably wouldn't want to lose that type of young player and may not easily be able to replace a young guy with those type of skills on the open market. Bazz would have some nice leverage. Another possible advantage for him may be sign and trade options. I'm not sure if a team traded for him in season if they would receive Bazz with Full Bird rights but I'm pretty sure he would at least have early bird rights. In short if Bazz signs back with the Wolves it opens up options to get paid next year that he would not have if he was just on the open market.
If I was Bazz's agent I would be looking for the best landing spot for him and I would say if the Wolves rea presented the best option then sign here. He would be 25 when he hits the market next year so it's not like he would be old. I dont have a lot to go on but my guess is he isn't at a place in his career where he wants to go play somewhere else internationally. I'd guess he is wanting to play in the NBA not chase some decent money elsewhere. There are probably a few teams out there that are plenty interested in him for the vet min. The Wolves have offered him a contract this year and it's not hard to guess that it was more than anyone is offering right now based on Glen Taylor saying on Wolfson's podcast that they gave him a good offer. At some point do you swallow your pride and go back to the team that seems to actually value you and hope they continue to do so in a year? I think someone probably still gives him more than the Wolves can offer this year but it's certainly not crazy and not a terrible business decision for him to come back.
Re: Bazz
I'll add a bit more to what Monster said. The vet minimum for Bazz this next season would be about $1.57 million. The Wolves could offer Bazz an option on a 2nd year at around $1.6 million as added security and enticement.
There are a small number of NBA teams that still have cap space. I think it's around 5 teams. Among teams already over the cap are a subset who have all or part of one of the three main salary cap exceptions - the $8.3 million MLE, the $3.3 million biannual exception or the $4.3 million room exception. I don't see any team offering Bazz anything close to the full MLE of $8.3 million. And I don't see any team offering Bazz anything close to that much of their remaining cap space.
I see a team or two offering Bazz something in the neighborhood of $3 to 4 million per year on a 1 to 3 year deal. But the team that signs him won't have Bird rights to over Bazz for three years, which means they're ability to re-sign him to a more lucrative deal will be limited by the team's cap space and available exceptions. The Wolves, on the other hand, could re-sign him next summer without regard to the salary cap and without using any cap exception. That gives the Wolves a lot more flexibility than any other team to re-sign Bazz at the end of this upcoming season.
If I were Bazz's agent, I'd be looking for a 3-year guaranteed deal for at least $4 million per year with a team that offers Bazz the best chance at major minutes to showcase his talents. Maybe a team like Indiana or Atlanta where Bazz could potentially become a starter. If no team is willing to offer something in that neighborhood, then I'd seriously consider recommending that Bazz return to the Wolves for all the reasons I mentioned above. Short of a season-ending injury to Wiggins or Butler, Bazz would never work his way into a starting role with the Wolves. However, he could become a major rotation player getting 20-25 minutes per game as the Wolves only two-way wing who can play both SG and SF. He can also play some PF in a small-ball lineup. And given that Butler typically misses 15 games per season with injuries, Bazz would have a reasonably decent chance of starting at one of the Wolves wing positions for a significant stretch of games. He's pretty much be assured of post-season opportunities with the Wolves as well.
One key is that Bazz knows the dollar value Wolves have already assigned to him by virtue of the contract offer they game him this past year. So he already has a good sense of the minimum they'd likely be willing to pay him with Bird rights next summer, especially if Bazz really shines off the bench this season. I'm not betting on Bazz's return, but I wouldn't bet against it either.
There are a small number of NBA teams that still have cap space. I think it's around 5 teams. Among teams already over the cap are a subset who have all or part of one of the three main salary cap exceptions - the $8.3 million MLE, the $3.3 million biannual exception or the $4.3 million room exception. I don't see any team offering Bazz anything close to the full MLE of $8.3 million. And I don't see any team offering Bazz anything close to that much of their remaining cap space.
I see a team or two offering Bazz something in the neighborhood of $3 to 4 million per year on a 1 to 3 year deal. But the team that signs him won't have Bird rights to over Bazz for three years, which means they're ability to re-sign him to a more lucrative deal will be limited by the team's cap space and available exceptions. The Wolves, on the other hand, could re-sign him next summer without regard to the salary cap and without using any cap exception. That gives the Wolves a lot more flexibility than any other team to re-sign Bazz at the end of this upcoming season.
If I were Bazz's agent, I'd be looking for a 3-year guaranteed deal for at least $4 million per year with a team that offers Bazz the best chance at major minutes to showcase his talents. Maybe a team like Indiana or Atlanta where Bazz could potentially become a starter. If no team is willing to offer something in that neighborhood, then I'd seriously consider recommending that Bazz return to the Wolves for all the reasons I mentioned above. Short of a season-ending injury to Wiggins or Butler, Bazz would never work his way into a starting role with the Wolves. However, he could become a major rotation player getting 20-25 minutes per game as the Wolves only two-way wing who can play both SG and SF. He can also play some PF in a small-ball lineup. And given that Butler typically misses 15 games per season with injuries, Bazz would have a reasonably decent chance of starting at one of the Wolves wing positions for a significant stretch of games. He's pretty much be assured of post-season opportunities with the Wolves as well.
One key is that Bazz knows the dollar value Wolves have already assigned to him by virtue of the contract offer they game him this past year. So he already has a good sense of the minimum they'd likely be willing to pay him with Bird rights next summer, especially if Bazz really shines off the bench this season. I'm not betting on Bazz's return, but I wouldn't bet against it either.
Re: Bazz
Lip I highly doubt Bazz would have any interest in locking himself into a deal in that 4 million range even if that could end up being a smart move assuming he doesn't show himself to be worth more than that. One reason a lot of players don't like signing cheap value deals is they can almost immediately become trade bait. This offseason so few guys signed deals that were basically longer than 2 years this offseason. If freaking Jonathon Simmons was only getting 6 million per (non guaranteed 3rd year) there is no way any team is gonna be offering anything more than 4 million per (unless is for 1 year maybe a little more) if even that for Bazz. I have bias because I want him back but I also think it's a stone cold reality. Honestly I think his ceiling of money he will get this season is like 4.2 million on a 1 year deal from someone. I'm honestly not sure anyone is gonna end up offering that much for him. Waiters didn't even get that much last year and it's easy to argue he was coming off a more useful season with a higher ceiling and I am not really a Waiters guy.