Tank Status Tracking

[Monster]

Like I said, tough situation. But to me, these guys and their families should know not to take any money as charity, bottom line. This has been the situation for years. Do the rules suck? Yes. But everyone knows the game, especially Penny Hardaway. Wiseman may be a great character individual, I don't know. I would be sure that he was if he went the difficult road of accepting the punishment, rather than hiring lawyers for injunctions and then walking away from it.

That's not the difficult road. That's the near impossible road. How was he supposed to pay $11,500 on his own while continuing to be a student athlete, which is what he would still be had he "accepted the punishment" as you said? Keep in mind, most collegiate athletes do not have the time available to get a job due to the commitment of classes, practices, travel, and games. He wasn't allowed to accept any donations. He obviously can't take any money from agents. He can't sell memorabilia to include autographs. Maybe he should have opened up a lemonade stand or worked the concessions during those Memphis home games? I just don't think it was as feasible as you might think it to be. A 12 game suspension is whatever, but paying back that $11,500 on his own while maintaining his responsibilities seems to be the more challenging aspect that needs to be understood here.

Leaving Memphis under those circumstances seemed like the only sensible thing to do.

He could have directed those lawyers he hired at fighting the fine while admitting some culpability, which would have been the logical and probably outcome in regards to a fine like this. Lawyers with the power to submit a restraining order could have also argued a reduced fine. Leaving Memphis was the only thing to do if you refuse any culpability in it all. Maybe he is totally innocent, but the discussion began with red flags. I'd say this incident still implies potential character issues, that he was either so unaware with his business dealings that he didnt know he was wrong, or that he knowingly took money and wasnt willing to do the right thing when caught. He did make a choice that made sense to him and has been supported by popular opinion. Im just not sure its as simple as you and other former players with a vested interest in the issue are portraying it.

A side question that could be a factor...who was paying his lawyers? Were they doing this for free? Maybe he didn't have any more money to pay them and was afraid the outcome was going to be the same regardless?

Anyways one way or another this Whole situation is a negative for him as a prospect there isn't any way around it.

[Coolbreeze44]

Couldn't he have just done what 99.9% of kids do? Play for your high school team. Travel with a local team in the summer. Pick a college, play one year and then turn pro? If he had just done that we wouldn't have all these people apologizing for him and making excuses.

[thedoper]

Couldn't he have just done what 99.9% of kids do? Play for your high school team. Travel with a local team in the summer. Pick a college, play one year and then turn pro? If he had just done that we wouldn't have all these people apologizing for him and making excuses.

Yes he could have. Im sick of the excuse that the everyone is bending and breaking the rules and therefore we should pity those that get caught. Yes the system is problematic. But to me, the idea that simply paying these kids will make everything better is equally ridiculous and problematic.

[thedoper]

Like I said, tough situation. But to me, these guys and their families should know not to take any money as charity, bottom line. This has been the situation for years. Do the rules suck? Yes. But everyone knows the game, especially Penny Hardaway. Wiseman may be a great character individual, I don't know. I would be sure that he was if he went the difficult road of accepting the punishment, rather than hiring lawyers for injunctions and then walking away from it.

That's not the difficult road. That's the near impossible road. How was he supposed to pay $11,500 on his own while continuing to be a student athlete, which is what he would still be had he "accepted the punishment" as you said? Keep in mind, most collegiate athletes do not have the time available to get a job due to the commitment of classes, practices, travel, and games. He wasn't allowed to accept any donations. He obviously can't take any money from agents. He can't sell memorabilia to include autographs. Maybe he should have opened up a lemonade stand or worked the concessions during those Memphis home games? I just don't think it was as feasible as you might think it to be. A 12 game suspension is whatever, but paying back that $11,500 on his own while maintaining his responsibilities seems to be the more challenging aspect that needs to be understood here.

Leaving Memphis under those circumstances seemed like the only sensible thing to do.

He could have directed those lawyers he hired at fighting the fine while admitting some culpability, which would have been the logical and probably outcome in regards to a fine like this. Lawyers with the power to submit a restraining order could have also argued a reduced fine. Leaving Memphis was the only thing to do if you refuse any culpability in it all. Maybe he is totally innocent, but the discussion began with red flags. I'd say this incident still implies potential character issues, that he was either so unaware with his business dealings that he didnt know he was wrong, or that he knowingly took money and wasnt willing to do the right thing when caught. He did make a choice that made sense to him and has been supported by popular opinion. Im just not sure its as simple as you and other former players with a vested interest in the issue are portraying it.

A side question that could be a factor...who was paying his lawyers? Were they doing this for free? Maybe he didn't have any more money to pay them and was afraid the outcome was going to be the same regardless?

Anyways one way or another this Whole situation is a negative for him as a prospect there isn't any way around it.

They may have done it pro-bono because of the profile of the case, yes. This blew up a bit more than I anticipated, my point was more to the simple fact that you are pointing out. This is a red flag, how red probably might on your perspective of his talent and potential, or your personal stake in the issue.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Is anyone going to give a shit about his past if he's anything close to an All-Star level player? Seriously.

I don't see any Phoenix Suns fans up in arms over DeAndre Ayton taking $100,000 from the University of Arizona. Did anyone care about Dennis Smith receiving $43,500 at North Carolina State? Isaiah Whitehead received $26,136 as a freshman at Seton Hall. Tim Quarterman got more than $16,000 while he was at LSU.

Shit, the entire Fab Five team at Michigan got paid hundreds of thousands of dollars. Marcus Camby made $40,000 at Massachusetts.

None of those instances had any play in how those guys turned out in the NBA. So, rather than focus entirely on a debatable mistake, I'll reiterate that James Wiseman is the best basketball player in this draft class. He turns 19 in March. That's all I've got, gentlemen.

[Coolbreeze44]

Is anyone going to give a shit about his past if he's anything close to an All-Star level player? Seriously.

I don't see any Phoenix Suns fans up in arms over DeAndre Ayton taking $100,000 from the University of Arizona. Did anyone care about Dennis Smith receiving $43,500 at North Carolina State? Isaiah Whitehead received $26,136 as a freshman at Seton Hall. Tim Quarterman got more than $16,000 while he was at LSU.

Shit, the entire Fab Five team at Michigan got paid hundreds of thousands of dollars. Marcus Camby made $40,000 at Massachusetts.

None of those instances had any play in how those guys turned out in the NBA. So, rather than focus entirely on a debatable mistake, I'll reiterate that James Wiseman is the best basketball player in this draft class. He turns 19 in March. That's all I've got, gentlemen.

I care that some athletes get paid to go to certain schools. In fact I think it sucks. I'm not naïve and realize it's a fact of life in college athletics, but I'm not going to condone it.

[thedoper]

Is anyone going to give a shit about his past if he's anything close to an All-Star level player? Seriously.

I don't see any Phoenix Suns fans up in arms over DeAndre Ayton taking $100,000 from the University of Arizona. Did anyone care about Dennis Smith receiving $43,500 at North Carolina State? Isaiah Whitehead received $26,136 as a freshman at Seton Hall. Tim Quarterman got more than $16,000 while he was at LSU.

Shit, the entire Fab Five team at Michigan got paid hundreds of thousands of dollars. Marcus Camby made $40,000 at Massachusetts.

None of those instances had any play in how those guys turned out in the NBA. So, rather than focus entirely on a debatable mistake, I'll reiterate that James Wiseman is the best basketball player in this draft class. He turns 19 in March. That's all I've got, gentlemen.

You're right to a point. Using one of your examples, I would say that Webber's character played a factor in his overall success in the NBA. Him never being able to admit he was wrong could have been linked to how malleable he was in his early years and what his overall work ethic was like as a pro. Wiseman may be totally different, I dont know. But guys having anything handed to them before they've earned it can be a problem in any walk of life.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Is anyone going to give a shit about his past if he's anything close to an All-Star level player? Seriously.

I don't see any Phoenix Suns fans up in arms over DeAndre Ayton taking $100,000 from the University of Arizona. Did anyone care about Dennis Smith receiving $43,500 at North Carolina State? Isaiah Whitehead received $26,136 as a freshman at Seton Hall. Tim Quarterman got more than $16,000 while he was at LSU.

Shit, the entire Fab Five team at Michigan got paid hundreds of thousands of dollars. Marcus Camby made $40,000 at Massachusetts.

None of those instances had any play in how those guys turned out in the NBA. So, rather than focus entirely on a debatable mistake, I'll reiterate that James Wiseman is the best basketball player in this draft class. He turns 19 in March. That's all I've got, gentlemen.

Of course not. This stuff is rampant.

My beef was just in how you presented it. He was being shady. Hardaway was being shady. So I don't know why being asked to recoup the money from their shady dealings was out of line from the NCAA.

And let's not forget, the only reason he got to play high school ball was from favorable (temporary) rulings that were later overturned. In the end, MOST of these top prospects are getting something... as are many of their hangers-on. It's been going on in different ways for decades.


[Note: Sorta related... I'm not in favor of paying student athletes. But I'm also a staunch disbeliever in the NCAA's constant money grab. So without a dog in the fight... I choose apathy.]

[WildWolf2813]

Is this where I post the Timberwolves track record of tanking?

Nobody... NOBODY... does it better.

2010: 1 - 23 to end the season.
2011: 0 - 15 to end the season.
2012: 1 - 13 to end the season.
2015: 0 - 12 to end the season (nearly 0-21... if not for two OT wins... one vs. a 14-win Knicks team that played Alexey Shved 43 minutes!)
2017: 0 - 6 (3 - 13 down the stretch)
2018: 4 - 11

Now, let's remember that there are several organizations that have not lost 10 games in a row since 2010. Will the Wolves have 2 or 3 or 4 such streaks this season?



[Note: And obviously... as soon as the Wolves brass told those teams to start "chasing wins" those same players who were told that losing was cool... suddenly turned it around and we became WINNERS! Or something...]

I was at this game. Nobody at MSG wanted to win that game. We thought that win was gonna cost us the worst record in the league, and then Tim Hardaway Jr. came through for the Knicks down the stretch while the Wolves laid down to end the season.

[WildWolf2813]

Wiseman is just a 7 foot Wiggins.


Give me Obi Toppin

Disagree on both accounts. Obi Toppin will be 22-years old at the time of the draft and he's got just as many question marks in his game as he does strengths. A fine prospect, but not one worthy of a top-five or even top-seven draft pick, which is where I'm assuming the Wolves will land after the lottery.

As for the comment about James Wiseman, I don't see any similarities between the two other than both look to be the most physically-gifted athletes in their draft classes. Other than that, your comment falls in the "silly" category for me, respectfully.

He's 22. So what? If this team is gonna be so hung up on "timelines" (I hate that word) then what do you think this franchise is gonna do when the rookies are 18 years old year after year while Towns and Russell get older? Obi right now is the best player in the country. Period. I'm not worried about his effort levels. Offensively he fits what this team wants. He damn sure ain't timid (if Culver had Toppin's attitude we wouldn't be so down on him). Obi's biggest deficiency is on defense but honestly, this team is gonna fail regardless on that end and we can blame our 2 cornerstones for that.

and Wiseman's biggest issue above anything else in regards to his skill set is that he has a super low motor. He's not big on energy, so really, by getting Wiseman, you're just hoping he can sustain a high level of play for longer stretches than Wiggins did, because his interest wanes from time to time. If it were just about his game, he's #1 regardless of team, but fresh off the experience that was Andrew Wiggins, they couldn't get through to him, so I question whether this franchise can get through to anyone who has a similar approach to the game.