Interesting Comparison

[TheFuture]

I think many overvalue athleticism. Curry...not a great athlete. Dramon Green....not a great athlete. Paul Pierce...not a great athlete, Durant....not a great athlete. There are a ton of these guys in the league. We have all seen how little Wiggins athleticism has driven to expected results. While we always love the guys with the massive athletic profile, I am not sure it prognosticates future success. Tatum seems like a very good basketball player.

You fail to point out that each example had at least one area off the charts whether it was a skill set, genetics, or both. I hate using unique players as criteria.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I think many overvalue athleticism. Curry...not a great athlete. Dramon Green....not a great athlete. Paul Pierce...not a great athlete, Durant....not a great athlete. There are a ton of these guys in the league. We have all seen how little Wiggins athleticism has driven to expected results. While we always love the guys with the massive athletic profile, I am not sure it prognosticates future success. Tatum seems like a very good basketball player.

You fail to point out that each example had at least one area off the charts whether it was a skill set, genetics, or both. I hate using unique players as criteria.

Right, but the point is being off the charts in a skill set like shooting, ball handling, or genetics like length is superior to being off the charts in vertical leap.

[Monster]

I think many overvalue athleticism. Curry...not a great athlete. Dramon Green....not a great athlete. Paul Pierce...not a great athlete, Durant....not a great athlete. There are a ton of these guys in the league. We have all seen how little Wiggins athleticism has driven to expected results. While we always love the guys with the massive athletic profile, I am not sure it prognosticates future success. Tatum seems like a very good basketball player.

You fail to point out that each example had at least one area off the charts whether it was a skill set, genetics, or both. I hate using unique players as criteria.

Right, but the point is being off the charts in a skill set like shooting, ball handling, or genetics like length is superior to being off the charts in vertical leap.

You can add Kyrie to that list.

[Lipoli390]

I think many overvalue athleticism. Curry...not a great athlete. Dramon Green....not a great athlete. Paul Pierce...not a great athlete, Durant....not a great athlete. There are a ton of these guys in the league. We have all seen how little Wiggins athleticism has driven to expected results. While we always love the guys with the massive athletic profile, I am not sure it prognosticates future success. Tatum seems like a very good basketball player.

Totally agree. I think when it comes to the pure physical element of evaluating a player, things like height, wingspan, and lean muscle mass make a bigger difference than the traditional athletic tests like vertical jump and straight line speed. One thing unique about Draymond is his long wingspan, which allows him to play bigger than his height. Durant has incredible height for a player with his skill set. Klay Thompson is a bigger than average shooting guard. Heck, even Curry is tall-ish point guard.

Q - I agree that length is a bigger difference-maker than athleticism. But I don't consider Curry long, even by NBA PG standards. What he has is phenomenal shooting ability and equally tremendous ball-handling skills along with the abilty to change speed and direction in an instant and make people miss -- like a former Vikings running back named Chuck Foreman who was neither fast nor strong. Length, shooting, ballhandling, body control, hand-eye coordination, motor/toughness, quick reactions and ability to anticipate -- all these things seems to matter more than pure athleticism.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Athleticism typically determines a player's ceiling and basketball skills typically determines a player's floor. The 5 best players in the league this year. Harden, Westbrook, LeBron, Durant, Kawhi. All tremendous athletes with tremendous basketball skill. There are a few occasions where a Curry, Nash, or Dirk show up at the top, but if you look at history a majority of the top players of all-time were great athletes. And don't sell guys like Durant short. Doing what he does at 7 feet tall makes him a tremendous athlete. I'd take basketball skill over athleticism most of the time, but there is a base level of athleticism that is needed for that skill to work at this level.

[Lipoli390]

Athleticism typically determines a player's ceiling and basketball skills typically determines a player's floor. The 5 best players in the league this year. Harden, Westbrook, LeBron, Durant, Kawhi. All tremendous athletes with tremendous basketball skill. There are a few occasions where a Curry, Nash, or Dirk show up at the top, but if you look at history a majority of the top players of all-time were great athletes. And don't sell guys like Durant short. Doing what he does at 7 feet tall makes him a tremendous athlete. I'd take basketball skill over athleticism most of the time, but there is a base level of athleticism that is needed for that skill to work at this level.

Kahns -- I agre on the necessary base level of athleticism. But speaking of athleticism strictly in terms of speed and hops, there's a long list of allstar caliber NBA players who don't score well at all in those areas. I'll take your list and add to it:

Curry
Nash
Dirk
Bird
McHale
Magic Johnson
Stockton
Malone -
Kyrie Irving
Durant -- He's not fast and doesn't have much of a vertical. He's super long and skilled
Kevin Love
Tim Duncan

I contrast those guys with the great athletes:

MJ
Dr. J
Dominique Wilkins
Westbrook
LeBron
Many others...

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Athleticism typically determines a player's ceiling and basketball skills typically determines a player's floor. The 5 best players in the league this year. Harden, Westbrook, LeBron, Durant, Kawhi. All tremendous athletes with tremendous basketball skill. There are a few occasions where a Curry, Nash, or Dirk show up at the top, but if you look at history a majority of the top players of all-time were great athletes. And don't sell guys like Durant short. Doing what he does at 7 feet tall makes him a tremendous athlete. I'd take basketball skill over athleticism most of the time, but there is a base level of athleticism that is needed for that skill to work at this level.

I don't consider Durant, Harden, or Kawhi elite athletes in the way most folks measure athleticism, which is vertical jump and speed. In fact, Durant posted some of the most pathetic athletic test results in the NBA combine on record (this is back in the day when top picks went to the combine).

But if you get into niche areas like hand strength, Kawhi excels. Harden apparently is one of the best decelerators in the game, meaning he can come to a full stop and get set for a shot faster than anyone in the game. And yes, the fluidity in which Durant can move given his height certainly is a sight to behold.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Athleticism typically determines a player's ceiling and basketball skills typically determines a player's floor. The 5 best players in the league this year. Harden, Westbrook, LeBron, Durant, Kawhi. All tremendous athletes with tremendous basketball skill. There are a few occasions where a Curry, Nash, or Dirk show up at the top, but if you look at history a majority of the top players of all-time were great athletes. And don't sell guys like Durant short. Doing what he does at 7 feet tall makes him a tremendous athlete. I'd take basketball skill over athleticism most of the time, but there is a base level of athleticism that is needed for that skill to work at this level.

I don't consider Durant, Harden, or Kawhi elite athletes in the way most folks measure athleticism, which is vertical jump and speed. In fact, Durant posted some of the most pathetic athletic test results in the NBA combine on record (this is back in the day when top picks went to the combine).

But if you get into niche areas like hand strength, Kawhi excels. Harden apparently is one of the best decelerators in the game, meaning he can come to a full stop and get set for a shot faster than anyone in the game. And yes, the fluidity in which Durant can move given his height certainly is a sight to behold.

There's more to athleticism than just speed and jumping. James Harden is able to go from full speed driving to the hoop to a euro step that can put him anywhere in a large area on a dime. That's an athletic play that not a lot of guys can make. Talking about Durant, how many 7 footers can pull up for a jumper in the middle of a drive to the hoop? Most of them can't change speeds that quickly and immediately have a soft jumper. That's an athletic play. Kawhi can pick anyone in the league up full court and stay with them the length of the court. That's athletic. I think you guys are oversimplifying athleticism and you also aren't taking into account the size of some of the guys who are doing it. You say Steph isn't a great athlete, but he's shook Lebron twice in this series because of his ability to start and stop at an elite level. That's athleticism. Steph's not an elite athlete, but he's not Steve Nash either. I think Harden, Durant and Kawhi are elite athletes because they do things athletically that 99% of the league can't do. It's not straight line speed or a 44" vertical, but it's start and stop, it's getting from one spot on the floor to another in an instant, it's hanging full court with guys much shorter than you who are in theory quicker than you. That's still falls under athleticism and not basketball skill.