BloopOracle wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:BloopOracle wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:BloopOracle wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:BloopOracle wrote:Fuck Kevin Durant that's what I have to say. He has ruined the playoffs for the foreseeable future with his wimpy move and now we have the news that he is open to taking a small paycut to stay with GSW. I will give him credit for 0.3 rings he wins this year I don't care how salty it sounds it's honestly all he deserves
Meh.
In a basketball culture obsessed with rings... Durant put himself to get his ring(s) with teammates he likes to play with. Or, he could have stayed in OKC and been ripped for not winning rings while playing ISO ball. LeBron James set the course here in a couple of ways.
1. Teaming up with stars. See Miami.
2. People forget... if you win. Think about all the bad will with James' Decision. Yet, he soared up the "all time best player" list while with Miami AND was able to return to Cleveland a fucking hero. What?! That's a far cry from all the negative nancy coverage he had initially.
3. We're victims of the moment in all aspects of life. In 15 years, people are going to think about HOW Durant got those possible rings a lot less than the sheer number of them. Likewise, he would have been labeled "career loser" had he stayed in OKC and didn't win... regardless of the "warrior going down with his team" and context and everything else that might have prevented a title. MOST fans simply don't get that deep into it.
While I prefer stars staying with teams and building champions that way... the cats already out of the bag. So I find it disingenuous to rip Durant but not others (see James) for thinking all-time legacy via rings.
There was a heated 10+ post argument in this thread where I have already ripped apart all 3 of your points as desperate reaches to attempt to match Durant's weak move with anyone else but I don't want to post it again.
Meh.
I vehemently disagree. Simple as that. Especially #3. I don't even know how that one is arguable or why anybody would argue that one. There's too much NBA history (and examples of all kinds in modern-day life) to support it.
yes we're all prisoners of the moment but that only helps Durant right now with people trying to say just enjoy the greatness etc. I think he will only look worse, with comment from former players attacking him saying things like Durant is the kid who joined his bullies so they would stop picking on him. It doesn't matter how many years pass, there is zero NBA history supporting your point no top 5 player has ever jumped ship and joined the best team in the league. You posted a bunch of lesser scenario's like others did trying to compare the two but no one has topped what Durant did and basketball historians will remember that.
No. You seem to be going by your own personal opinions. I'm going with actual NBA history.
In the end, titles matter more than context. They have in the past... and there's no reason to think that's changed. If anything, it's cemented in how things work even more now.
Basically, I think you're looking at it on a very micro level (no player this good on a team this good)... vs. me looking at it on a more macro level. I'm not saying you're wrong for that. Only that we do have case after case after case in NBA history when the micro view of a situation is swallowed up by the macro view.
- James ditches Cleveland. NO!!! LeQUIT!!!! ... time passes, he wins... James is an all-time great and can return a hero.
- Kobe Bryant angles for LA... petulant high schooler is a punk... time passes, he wins... Kobe Bryant is one of the all-time fiercest competitors.
- The 2002 WCF is a sham... and the Lakers title is a farce! ... time passes... Nobody is taking that title away from them despite Game 6.
- Miami wins a title as a flawed team in 2006 amid more swirling officiating controversies... time passes... nobody cares. A title is a title.
- Nash's bloody nose in Game 1 and the suspensions for Game 5... the Suns were screwed! ... time passes... the Spurs won the 2007 NBA title with ease. Nash and D'Antoni in Phoenix failed.
- Houston only won titles because Jordan was gone... time passes... Olajuwon led back-to-back championship teams.
- Len Bias died... Kevin McHale broke his foot... the Rockets fell apart via drugs and injuries... the entire West sucks balls... the Lakers were gifted the title... time passes... the '87 Lakers were inarguably one of the greatest teams ever and Magic is >> Bird because of the extra titles he had via that series.
- Laimbeer did NOT foul Kareem! And why were fans on the court!!! The Pistons were screwed in the 1988 Finals. The Lakers title is fraudulent... time passes... the Lakers had one of the greatest runs in NBA history in the 1980s.
- Kareem Abdul Jabbar demands to be traded... basically to the Lakers or Knicks and nobody else. Time passes... what? Who cares! Look at those extra rings!
NBA history is littered with interesting nuggets about how teams were formed/created/destroyed. In the end, most are either forgotten... or discarded when considering the individual legacies of each player. We still see Bill Russell's 11 rings and don't put too much stock that free agency wasn't around and there were only 8 teams for some of those seasons. He was the ultimate winner regardless.
Like so many other "never happened before!" events that precede Duncan's move... there will be another one right around the corner that will occupy our time, scorn, frustration and attention. Meanwhile... people will look at Duncan's stats and then count his number of rings when comparing him to other all-time greats.
They won't be giving him 0.3 credit for that title... any more than people give James only 0.743 credit for winning a title in Miami. It's simply not what we've seen historically.
The problem is that people don't want to see what GSW are doing more than once, everyone knows who is taking home the trophy at the end of the day and lack of competition kills any drama. Sure there have been certain dominant runs by the 2002? Lakers for example but the great teams were always pushed. Stockton and Malone pushed Jordan to be great. When you're pushed to be great, that's when the flu game happens, that's when Jordan hits that infamous step back shot. When you're down 3-1 and klay responds with that game against the thunder last year, pulling up from mid court and going unconscious hitting amazing shot after shot. You get stuff like the ridiculous game 7 of the Finals last year. There are teams virtually every year who at least have a puncher's chance of winning it all that would push these super teams to be their best. Now we have nothing, we went from a battle to the end to GSW absolutely steamrolling everyone. There are comments from Jerry West where he talks about how he sometimes feels bad during the playoffs looking up at the scoreboard and watching competitiveness be destroyed. Klay just made a comment the other day talking about how "every playoff game last year was a battle, this year we're 13-0"
People are going to get sick of this fast, it's fine now because a lot were still hopeful for a good finals but what if they happens again next year, and the next? It very well could as neither team is going anywhere. I think it is a dangerous situation for the NBA and they could lose viewership, if people wanted to watch a team murder everyone they play the Olympic basketball games would draw more viewers. They have 4 players that are better than any player on half the teams in the NBA, it has to reach a breaking point. I think the unrest that Durant's move will create over the next few years will explode and follow him for the rest of his career, and he like Lebron are the first superstars to have their entire careers documented in the HD from the very start. I don't see public opinion fading and forgetting as much about how he won those rings when we have every part of his saga documented in vivid detail unlike all those you listed in the past.
I guess people are still watching anyway.
https://twitter.com/richarddeitsch/status/871795714971623424
"The NBA Finals are averaging 19.6 million viewers (TV + streaming), per ESPN. That's up five percent from 2016."
GS is up 2-0. That's expected. The series isn't over yet. Let's see if GS sweeps the Cavs before we get to that spot. Remember a few weeks ago when the Spurs were in big trouble against the rockets Aldridge looked old and nearly worthless? The Spurs won that series in game 6 with one of that biggest beat downs I've ever seen all things considered especially without Leonard. Let's see it play out.
As for GS run through the playoffs...well every team they played and beat was missing a significant player due to injury. The Cavs only played 1 healthy team in the Pacers and they didn't seem particularly impressive at all. The NBA can't account for teams having significant players hurt in nearly every series (especially a league MVP AND DPOY candidate) against these teams. GS is an injury away from being easier to win against even though they would still obviously be pretty good
Another thing people don't seem to give GS credit for is their player development. They are playing a rookie sole decent minutes in the playoffs when the game matters. They found Ian Clark and he gets better every year. They are basically doing a lot of what the Spurs have been doing for over 15 years but it gets overshadowed because of the greatness of Curry Green Kay and then Durant joining the team.
Again if you want to be salty about Durant joining GS and have reasons that's cool it makes for more interesting because people have something to Cheer against. You can bet there are people tuning in to the finals hoping to see Lebron lose.
Obviously it's also fine to disagree on some points. I actually wonder if people still don't have an mark against those Houston back to back titles...probably because I still do. They deserve them but it's hard not to wonder. Those Rockets teams were very good and Hakeem was a special player. But another 10 years go by...yeah the Rockets for most people will have two Championship then and yeah that's what will matter.
