Q12543 wrote:The thing I like about Collins is that unlike Markkanen, he really will punish guys that go small on him. He is adept with either hand in the post and has a great touch around the hoop. And he will aggressively rebound the ball.
He needs to add a little weight and I'm not sure about his ability to defend on the perimeter - which is critical - but I like a lot about him if he's the consolation prize to Isaac.
how exactly is a prolific 7 foot 3 point shooter not going to be able to punish smaller players when he can just shoot over the top of them? You tried to say anyone could just stick a wing on him like Pop did to Ryan Anderson but putting a little guy on a legit 7 footer in Markkanen is drastically different than 6'9 Ryan
As Mikkeman mentioned above, just because someone is a few inches shorter doesn't mean he can't get up into a taller player's grill and prevent shot attempts or bother them. He doesn't have to be able to block the shot. And it's not like Markkanen has a lot of shake to his game, where he can create space off the dribble.
And then don't forget Markkanen has to guard a quicker player on the other end. The reason teams go small is because it generally works....
I hear you guys on a wing potentially being able to shut him down but doesn't it say something that you have to go back to prime Dirk being guarded by an all pro defender? Are there any other examples of 7 foot 3 point shooters being shut down by a wing player? Did Dirk even get shut down or just slowed down anyway by Bowen who is a hall of fame defender? I have to say if our PF starts drawing other team's best wing defender opening up Lavine and Wiggins to run roughshod I will take that any day of the week, it's one thing to throw all your ammo at stopping first option Dirk but Markkanen would be the 3rd or 4th option on the floor.
BloopOracle wrote:I hear you guys on a wing potentially being able to shut him down but doesn't it say something that you have to go back to prime Dirk? Are there any other examples of 7 foot 3 point shooters being shut down by a wing player? Did Dirk even get shut down or just slowed down anyway by Bowen who is a hall of fame defender? I have to say if our PF starts drawing other team's best wing defender opening up Lavine and Wiggins to run roughshod I will take that any day of the week
I can throw it back to you had there been a 7 ft shooter that has been all star caliber besides dirk.
The thing is Markkanen has to get to dirk levels for the offense to run through him. Because it is hard to take the ball out of 3, 20 year old, 20 PPG scorers.
I mean look at love, am elite big man shooter and he is hard to play in the finals and he has another elite skill that Markkanen dosen't have.
We can go get mirotic if we want a big 3pt shooter. I would rather have that then draft a guy who has one skill.
BloopOracle wrote:I hear you guys on a wing potentially being able to shut him down but doesn't it say something that you have to go back to prime Dirk? Are there any other examples of 7 foot 3 point shooters being shut down by a wing player? Did Dirk even get shut down or just slowed down anyway by Bowen who is a hall of fame defender? I have to say if our PF starts drawing other team's best wing defender opening up Lavine and Wiggins to run roughshod I will take that any day of the week
First off, using Dirk is not even a realistic example. He's a surefire HOFer, so this notion that Lauri is going to be the next Dirk is a massive stretch.
Here are some examples of other 7-foot-ish shooters that are largely forgettable: Spencer Hawes, Andrea Bargnani, Meyers Leonard, Raef LaFrentz, Channing Frye, and Mehmet Okur. Yes, there are some solid rotation players in there, but no one that is going to move the needle for a franchise. I'd have no problem putting a wing on almost any one of those guys and then challenging them on defense on the other side of the ball.
BloopOracle wrote:I hear you guys on a wing potentially being able to shut him down but doesn't it say something that you have to go back to prime Dirk? Are there any other examples of 7 foot 3 point shooters being shut down by a wing player? Did Dirk even get shut down or just slowed down anyway by Bowen who is a hall of fame defender? I have to say if our PF starts drawing other team's best wing defender opening up Lavine and Wiggins to run roughshod I will take that any day of the week
First off, using Dirk is not even a realistic example. He's a surefire HOFer, so this notion that Lauri is going to be the next Dirk is a massive stretch.
Here are some examples of other 7-foot-ish shooters that are largely forgettable: Spencer Hawes, Andrea Bargnani, Meyers Leonard, Raef LaFrentz, Channing Frye, and Mehmet Okur. Yes, there are some solid rotation players in there, but no one that is going to move the needle for a franchise. I'd have no problem putting a wing on almost any one of those guys and then challenging them on defense on the other side of the ball.
I didn't bring up Dirk, you guys did because you were trying to think of a way to shut down a 7 foot 3 point shooter. None of those shooters you just named are anywhere close to as prolific of a 3 point shooter coming out of college as Lauri, why even use slow footed examples like Hawes and Okur who only fired up one or two 3's a game like virtually everyone on that list. He is a top 10 projected pick in a loaded draft class of course he is more like Dirk. I think you're starting to reach at this point looking for confirmation that Lauri can easily be shut down by a wing, first people have to go back to Dirk and Bowen to find something, now we're to any 7 footer you can think of that's ever fired up a 3. Lauri is a unicorn that's why he's rated so high despite people's best efforts here to typecast an extremely unique player.
BloopOracle wrote:I hear you guys on a wing potentially being able to shut him down but doesn't it say something that you have to go back to prime Dirk? Are there any other examples of 7 foot 3 point shooters being shut down by a wing player? Did Dirk even get shut down or just slowed down anyway by Bowen who is a hall of fame defender? I have to say if our PF starts drawing other team's best wing defender opening up Lavine and Wiggins to run roughshod I will take that any day of the week
I can throw it back to you had there been a 7 ft shooter that has been all star caliber besides dirk.
The thing is Markkanen has to get to dirk levels for the offense to run through him. Because it is hard to take the ball out of 3, 20 year old, 20 PPG scorers.
I mean look at love, am elite big man shooter and he is hard to play in the finals and he has another elite skill that Markkanen dosen't have.
We can go get mirotic if we want a big 3pt shooter. I would rather have that then draft a guy who has one skill.
Again Love like Ryan Anderson is nowhere near 7 feet tall it's not an accurate comparison. Are you guys going to start naming 7 foot VOLUME 3 point shooters that can be shut down by wing defenders at some point? All of these anecdotes for players who aren't the same player as Markkanen don't mean anything.
BloopOracle wrote:I hear you guys on a wing potentially being able to shut him down but doesn't it say something that you have to go back to prime Dirk? Are there any other examples of 7 foot 3 point shooters being shut down by a wing player? Did Dirk even get shut down or just slowed down anyway by Bowen who is a hall of fame defender? I have to say if our PF starts drawing other team's best wing defender opening up Lavine and Wiggins to run roughshod I will take that any day of the week
First off, using Dirk is not even a realistic example. He's a surefire HOFer, so this notion that Lauri is going to be the next Dirk is a massive stretch.
Here are some examples of other 7-foot-ish shooters that are largely forgettable: Spencer Hawes, Andrea Bargnani, Meyers Leonard, Raef LaFrentz, Channing Frye, and Mehmet Okur. Yes, there are some solid rotation players in there, but no one that is going to move the needle for a franchise. I'd have no problem putting a wing on almost any one of those guys and then challenging them on defense on the other side of the ball.
I didn't bring up Dirk, you guys did because you were trying to think of a way to shut down a 7 foot 3 point shooter. None of those shooters you just named are anywhere close to as prolific of a 3 point shooter coming out of college as Lauri, why even use slow footed examples like Hawes and Okur who only fired up one or two 3's a game like virtually everyone on that list. He is a top 10 projected pick in a loaded draft class of course he is more like Dirk. I think you're starting to reach at this point looking for confirmation that Lauri can easily be shut down by a wing, first people have to go back to Dirk and Bowen to find something, now we're to any 7 footer you can think of that's ever fired up a 3. Lauri is a unicorn that's why he's rated so high despite people's best efforts here to typecast an extremely unique player.
Never said he could "easily" be shut down by a wing, just comfortable putting a wing on him and generally containing him while exploiting him on the other end of the floor. Besides, where are all these shot attempts going to come from?
I'm reasonably sure he will be a solid catch-and-shoot 3-baller in the NBA. It's everything else I'm worried about: rebounding, defending, toughness, passing.....Unicorns do more than shoot stand still jumpers.
Q12543 wrote:The thing I like about Collins is that unlike Markkanen, he really will punish guys that go small on him. He is adept with either hand in the post and has a great touch around the hoop. And he will aggressively rebound the ball.
He needs to add a little weight and I'm not sure about his ability to defend on the perimeter - which is critical - but I like a lot about him if he's the consolation prize to Isaac.
how exactly is a prolific 7 foot 3 point shooter not going to be able to punish smaller players when he can just shoot over the top of them? You tried to say anyone could just stick a wing on him like Pop did to Ryan Anderson but putting a little guy on a legit 7 footer in Markkanen is drastically different than 6'9 Ryan
Markkenan does look like a very good perimeter shooter. I don't put too much stock in his purported height in light of reports that he has short arms and, therefore, isn't very long. The fact that he declined to participate in the combine measurements supports the reports that he comes up short in the length department. I wouldn't be surprised if he has an 8'8 or 8'9 overhead reach. His pedestrian rebounding and poor shot-blocking college stats give us and additional window into lack of length or explosiveness. And reports on him certainly don't praise his defense. Statistically, he looks like a one-trick poney -- a perimeter scorer. Given his lack of length or athleticism and the much greater abundance of long athletes in the NBA, I can also see where NBA PFs and SFs might frustrate his shooting. I'm not totally down on Markkenan and I haven't seen enough of him to have a lot of confidence in my opinion of him. The good news is that Thibs has probably watched the full video of every college game Markkenan played this past season. So if Thibs likes him a lot, he should take him.
Lip, Markkanen's overhead reach with shoes was measured to 279cm in summer 2016. It is about 9'2 in feet and inches. His wingspan was measured to 212cm, which is 6'11.5.
Good information, Mikkeman. Thanks. The NBA combine measures reach without shoes. So that would put Markkenan's combine-equivalent reach at around 9'0. Not bad. But his rebounding and shot-blocking stats tell the tale. He plays small. But as I said, I haven't seen enough of him to have much of an eye test. His 3-point shooting stats are terrific, but nothing else stands out.
There was a time when Markannen was at the top of my list for our draft slot. But some of you convinced me he wouldn't be the best fit here. He just doesn't check enough boxes, particularly for a coach like Thibs. I really can't see us taking him for that reason. In fact I'd be more than a little surprised if ended up on our team.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:There was a time when Markannen was at the top of my list for our draft slot. But some of you convinced me he wouldn't be the best fit here. He just doesn't check enough boxes, particularly for a coach like Thibs. I really can't see us taking him for that reason. In fact I'd be more than a little surprised if ended up on our team.
