Hire Sam Hinkie

[AbeVigodaLive]

I don't know how much of it was true but there was a lot of chatter about Hienke was bad at being a guy that was able to lead an organization. He didn't talk to the media much Brett Brown did all the time. It was funny Thorpe said Okogor wasn't handled well and then a few minutes later said the Wolves should hire Heinke. Thorpe did say he thinks Heinke would have anothe plan it's not like his only go to move was the tanking strategy. That does make a lot of sense this team already has Towns. That the guy you are tanking for. Thorpe mentioned the assistant GM in Washington as a smart dude. He also had some random story about how he wasn't a david Griffin fan and then became one when he heard a "tremendous" story about him. It was the one that when the Cavs were down 3-1 to the warriors and Griffin emailed everyone in the organization and said we are down 3-1 but we are gonna come back and win the finals. That email changed David Thorpe's opinion on David Griffin. To quote Stephen Adams "Seems dumb".

Heinke was good at finding guys like Roco...out of how many random signing and bizziollion 2nd round picks did it take for him to get Roco and McConnell? He should get credit for those guys but all the Wild opportunity both in roster spots and draft picks AND playing time I wouldn't exactly put that as some magical strength.

Abe says the fans will suffer with Heinke. Dude is a freaking Legend in Philly no joke. Not everyone feels that way but there are a lot of Philly fans that feel that way right or wrong.

People won't like this but I'm not sure Sam Heinke is the right guy for this organization. He seems like a guybthats gonna be all about the bottom line. This organization needs smart basketball people but I think it needs to have an identity of likeabilty. Play that up with people that are also good at their jobs.

Personally I'm not against the San Heinke special taking over this organization. If so make sure we hire some actual person to be the friendly face of the organization and someone else that knows what they hate doing running the basketball stuff and let Heinke work his magic. Who is the coach though? Idk there are some concerns or If's even if you are ok with what Heinke did with the Sixers.

Tanking worked ok in Philadelphia for several reasons.

1) The 76ers decided to tank after ONE losing season. ONE. The team was coming off a 34 - 48 record when they decided to tank. They had made the playoffs in 4 of the previous 5 seasons, including the 2nd rd. only a season prior... but it was obvious they were looking at a rebuild anyway. The Wolves are effectively entering Year 15* of losing.

2) Remember, the draft lottery odds were still in their favor.

3) The 76ers didn't have a star on the roster. Jrue Holiday was a 18/8/43% fg guy. Then... Evan Turner? Thad Young? How do you think KAT is going to take a full-on tank fest? Is it even possible with a guy like KAT? He's too good.

4) It was novel. At least the Philly fans could "buy in" because they were trying something totally unique and controversial. The Wolves would once again, just be emulating somebody else. It's a harder sell.


* last season was a great season! Or, so we'll recall someday. Maybe.

[thedoper]

I would love David Griffen, he's a really bright and positive guy from what I can tell. I think Hinkie might be interesting because he is smart too from what I can tell and would have something to prove which would make him hungry.

All that being said, I don't really think we have a shot at either of these guys. I can't actually see what would be attractive about this team for a GM. We just got embroiled in another fiasco that was clearly not handled well by the team. Maybe I'm wrong but if I was a high profile GM I'd steer clear of this franchise. We're going to really have to take a flier on someone and hope it works out. We could probably hire Coangelo on a redemption tour, or go for an unkown. But we all know what is going to happen. Glen is going to use the Thibs experience to not even try to get a high profile GM, and likely promote someone internally or hire a complete unkown on the cheap. David Khan part 2.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I would love David Griffen, he's a really bright and positive guy from what I can tell. I think Hinkie might be interesting because he is smart too from what I can tell and would have something to prove which would make him hungry.

All that being said, I don't really think we have a shot at either of these guys. I can't actually see what would be attractive about this team for a GM. We just got embroiled in another fiasco that was clearly not handled well by the team. Maybe I'm wrong but if I was a high profile GM I'd steer clear of this franchise. We're going to really have to take a flier on someone and hope it works out. We could probably hire Coangelo on a redemption tour, or go for an unkown. But we all know what is going to happen. Glen is going to use the Thibs experience to not even try to get a high profile GM, and likely promote someone internally or hire a complete unkown on the cheap. David Khan part 2.

Fortunately, no matter what... nobody would be as incompetent (while being as smug) as David Kahn.

So there's that going for us.

And let's not forget the MOMENT when I called Kahn the wrong man for the job... I'm NOT making this up... he was shown on a telecast while the announcers were hyping him for the halftime interview very early into his tenure... picking his ear... and then putting that finger in his mouth.

I wrote about it at the time. It was disgusting. And personally, I thought very telling.

[Monster]

I don't know how much of it was true but there was a lot of chatter about Hienke was bad at being a guy that was able to lead an organization. He didn't talk to the media much Brett Brown did all the time. It was funny Thorpe said Okogor wasn't handled well and then a few minutes later said the Wolves should hire Heinke. Thorpe did say he thinks Heinke would have anothe plan it's not like his only go to move was the tanking strategy. That does make a lot of sense this team already has Towns. That the guy you are tanking for. Thorpe mentioned the assistant GM in Washington as a smart dude. He also had some random story about how he wasn't a david Griffin fan and then became one when he heard a "tremendous" story about him. It was the one that when the Cavs were down 3-1 to the warriors and Griffin emailed everyone in the organization and said we are down 3-1 but we are gonna come back and win the finals. That email changed David Thorpe's opinion on David Griffin. To quote Stephen Adams "Seems dumb".

Heinke was good at finding guys like Roco...out of how many random signing and bizziollion 2nd round picks did it take for him to get Roco and McConnell? He should get credit for those guys but all the Wild opportunity both in roster spots and draft picks AND playing time I wouldn't exactly put that as some magical strength.

Abe says the fans will suffer with Heinke. Dude is a freaking Legend in Philly no joke. Not everyone feels that way but there are a lot of Philly fans that feel that way right or wrong.

People won't like this but I'm not sure Sam Heinke is the right guy for this organization. He seems like a guybthats gonna be all about the bottom line. This organization needs smart basketball people but I think it needs to have an identity of likeabilty. Play that up with people that are also good at their jobs.

Personally I'm not against the San Heinke special taking over this organization. If so make sure we hire some actual person to be the friendly face of the organization and someone else that knows what they hate doing running the basketball stuff and let Heinke work his magic. Who is the coach though? Idk there are some concerns or If's even if you are ok with what Heinke did with the Sixers.

Tanking worked ok in Philadelphia for several reasons.

1) The 76ers decided to tank after ONE losing season. ONE. The team was coming off a 34 - 48 record when they decided to tank. They had made the playoffs in 4 of the previous 5 seasons, including the 2nd rd. only a season prior... but it was obvious they were looking at a rebuild anyway. The Wolves are effectively entering Year 15* of losing.

2) Remember, the draft lottery odds were still in their favor.

3) The 76ers didn't have a star on the roster. Jrue Holiday was a 18/8/43% fg guy. Then... Evan Turner? Thad Young? How do you think KAT is going to take a full-on tank fest? Is it even possible with a guy like KAT? He's too good.

4) It was novel. At least the Philly fans could "buy in" because they were trying something totally unique and controversial. The Wolves would once again, just be emulating somebody else. It's a harder sell.


* last season was a great season! Or, so we'll recall someday. Maybe.

I agree with what you are saying. The tanking method made sense and the Sixers basically traded anything worth moving for as many chances as they could get. It made sense. Can Heinke donthat on a team like the Wolves? Idk. What if he is more of a 1 trick pony? There are coaches that tend to be good sometimes even great with certain rosters but with other rosters probably not so good. There are likely basketball executives that are the same way. Some ai think might be good at finding ways to build around a contender. Some are good at building a young roster. Some are able to be good at it all and some are at least fairly competent at everything.

To me a HUGE aspect the wolves need is someone that's actually gonna lead the organization with competence AND some vision. A true leader. Those types of guys are not easy to find no matter what sphere you are in. Based on the Wolves history whoever we hire either as Coach or GM etc won't be here long because they aren't competent or something happens to them. It's been a horrific cycle since KG years. Losing Flip wasn't as much about losing his basketball abilities as GM and coach which may have ended up just being average or a little better but I do think even if he wasn't modern enough he was building an organization that was moving towards something legit. Best practice facilities in the league soon to have a G-league team (probably would have been good to have Flip in charge of basketball operations when we had a G-league team with his former CBA experience). Target center is now renovated and it's nowhere near the best arena it's not horrible either.

We are back to a rudderless franchise with Glen trying to figure out his way which is both frieghtening and also legitimately a thing we can say is a difficult problem for Glen to navigate. Yeah it's what owners need to do but it doesn't mean it's an easy task. I'd hope Ethan Casson the Wolves Lynx CEO has some competency and can help Glen to some extent...yeah it's bad right?

[AbeVigodaLive]

Yeah, we've been championing the team/player potential for so long... it's more than a bit disheartening to realize we can't even tout that as an identity any longer.

I might be ok with somebody entirely willing to reinvent the wheel at this point even though it could turn into another David Kahn disaster.

[Monster]

Yeah, we've been championing the team/player potential for so long... it's more than a bit disheartening to realize we can't even tout that as an identity any longer.

I might be ok with somebody entirely willing to reinvent the wheel at this point even though it could turn into another David Kahn disaster.

Yeah maybe there is some smart GM candidate/s out there that we should hire but I'll be honest part of me says why not just go with the legacy country club thing. As Souhan and Jon K said on a recent podcast...going outside the country club hasn't exactly worked out well. Bring in someone that will work well with Ryan Saunders and fail in a way that gives some sort of Minnesota hope. Milt Newton has been working for the Bucks and Wolfson said his family actually still lives in MN. Maybe Milt can go out there and fire up his fellow Kansas alumni in Wiggins. Ok maybe not Milt as the main guy (the Wiggins thing was for sure a joke) but whatever Is there really anything so obviously better than hoping Ryan is a good coach that can be something moderately special? Shrugs shoulders...I'm such a damn homer. Also my optimism is actually starting to run a bit dry.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Yeah, we've been championing the team/player potential for so long... it's more than a bit disheartening to realize we can't even tout that as an identity any longer.

I might be ok with somebody entirely willing to reinvent the wheel at this point even though it could turn into another David Kahn disaster.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We just need competence. The thought leaders of the NBA aren't coming to MN. We need people who can just run the organization with NBA competence. It's not rocket science, but we literally haven't had a normal competent front office in forever (Flip in round 2 didn't have enough time to prove one way or another if he was going to work well as the PBO). There aren't any cheat codes out there. Manage the cap smartly and bring in the right analytics people to bring this team into the modern NBA. We need a Masai to come in here and take what we have and make lemonade with it. He didn't change the front office game. He just made really smart and savvy moves to rebuild that team without fully tanking. That's what we need more than trying to find a workaround to our problems by reinventing the wheel.

[Duke13]

People hear Hinkie and assume it's tank time, which I find funny. The guy was very unique and forward thinking in the way he acquired assets. It wasn't just the high lottery picks! I'd love Hinkie as the Wolves GM.

Somebody said it, how do you tank with Kat?? That's the problem when you waste the first 4-5 years of a star players career, and aren't able to build something sustainable, when you have the resources, high picks because it takes the star player time to develope, as well as other young players around said star player.

We are likely fucked gentleman, we will be the Pels in two years.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Yeah, we've been championing the team/player potential for so long... it's more than a bit disheartening to realize we can't even tout that as an identity any longer.

I might be ok with somebody entirely willing to reinvent the wheel at this point even though it could turn into another David Kahn disaster.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We just need competence. The thought leaders of the NBA aren't coming to MN. We need people who can just run the organization with NBA competence. It's not rocket science, but we literally haven't had a normal competent front office in forever (Flip in round 2 didn't have enough time to prove one way or another if he was going to work well as the PBO). There aren't any cheat codes out there. Manage the cap smartly and bring in the right analytics people to bring this team into the modern NBA. We need a Masai to come in here and take what we have and make lemonade with it. He didn't change the front office game. He just made really smart and savvy moves to rebuild that team without fully tanking. That's what we need more than trying to find a workaround to our problems by reinventing the wheel.

Sure. Competence would go a long way.

My take is more along the lines of simply being innovators instead of reluctant followers. Push the proverbial envelope, even one time.

One guy I think might gain steam again is Fred Hoiberg. Consider he was considered an up-and-coming innovative coach. Yes... he flamed out in Chicago. But if we look closer, how much of that is on him?

- Allegedly, a bit weak on policing players. Fair enough.
- But he came in with his up-and-down pace system... only to be given old veteran over-dribbling trodders like Wade to implement it.
- The Bulls front office has been embarrassingly inept. And now they're seemingly going all in on Jim Boylen who's sorta seen as a clown around the league.

If we can talk ourselves into the Bulls front office are idiots angle... is there still something there with Hoiberg... and can he bring what first interested teams + what he's learned along the way and build something here?

He is a lifetime member of the country club after all... so we have that going for us, too.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Yeah, we've been championing the team/player potential for so long... it's more than a bit disheartening to realize we can't even tout that as an identity any longer.

I might be ok with somebody entirely willing to reinvent the wheel at this point even though it could turn into another David Kahn disaster.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We just need competence. The thought leaders of the NBA aren't coming to MN. We need people who can just run the organization with NBA competence. It's not rocket science, but we literally haven't had a normal competent front office in forever (Flip in round 2 didn't have enough time to prove one way or another if he was going to work well as the PBO). There aren't any cheat codes out there. Manage the cap smartly and bring in the right analytics people to bring this team into the modern NBA. We need a Masai to come in here and take what we have and make lemonade with it. He didn't change the front office game. He just made really smart and savvy moves to rebuild that team without fully tanking. That's what we need more than trying to find a workaround to our problems by reinventing the wheel.

Sure. Competence would go a long way.

My take is more along the lines of simply being innovators instead of reluctant followers. Push the proverbial envelope, even one time.

One guy I think might gain steam again is Fred Hoiberg. Consider he was considered an up-and-coming innovative coach. Yes... he flamed out in Chicago. But if we look closer, how much of that is on him?

- Allegedly, a bit weak on policing players. Fair enough.
- But he came in with his up-and-down pace system... only to be given old veteran over-dribbling trodders like Wade to implement it.
- The Bulls front office has been embarrassingly inept. And now they're seemingly going all in on Jim Boylen who's sorta seen as a clown around the league.

If we can talk ourselves into the Bulls front office are idiots angle... is there still something there with Hoiberg... and can he bring what first interested teams + what he's learned along the way and build something here?

He is a lifetime member of the country club after all... so we have that going for us, too.

And what about our guard and wing personnel fit what Hoiberg wants to do? That just seems like more wrong coach given the personnel and setting him up to fail again. We have a modern NBA talent issue. We don't have shooters. Bringing in someone who wants us to shoot more isn't going to make them better shooters. So you either change out the players to fit the new coach which after this deadline seems to be a problem or you bring in a coach who can actually implement a game plan that fits what we do have. Just shooting more 3's isn't gonna fix this team because we don't have the players to do that effectively.