Who is the better player (Wiggins vs LaVine)

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Lavine shooting 35% from 3. I'm pretty sure it's been stated definitely by some people on this board that's bad shooting from 3. Wiggins is better. :)

I'll actually defend Zach on this one (even though I recognize you're playing with us a little :)). Being almost the only offensive option on his team means Zach gets more defensive attention and therfore fewer open looks than Wig does as a 3rd or 4th option, so it's not surprising to me that Wig is hitting a higher percentage of threes on comparable attempts. Zach's clearly a better pure shooter though.

[thedoper]

Honestly who cares at this point? They've both shown some ability in the context of losing. I give the slight edge to Wiggins because Zach demands the ball so much and the only thing he can do is score, but honestly there seems better things to focus my energy on. Like how to tape Taylor saying something contrversial so he is forced to sell the team.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Honestly who cares at this point? They've both shown some ability in the context of losing. I give the slight edge to Wiggins because Zach demands the ball so much and the only thing he can do is score, but honestly there seems better things to focus my energy on. Like how to tape Taylor saying something contrversial so he is forced to sell the team.

Fair question, doper. I think the reason why it is still interesting to many of us is as a means of evaluating Thibs as a GM. It was widely rumored that the Bulls preferred Wig to Zach as a trade piece, but settled on Zach when Thibs wouldn't give Wig up. I still think Thibs made the right decision, but there are probably more here that would have preferred to send Wig to Chicago.

[WildWolf2813]

I wouldn't pay either of them, but we can't view LaVine at $20 mil if we had traded Wiggins instead. LaVine would have just gotten one of the max spots. Had we not made the trade at all, we might have given LaVine $90 mil instead of $80 (tundra tax)

I just don't think LaVine would fare any better under Thibs.

[Wolvesfan21]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lavinza01.html

Lavine-

ORTG - 105 (LaVine is shooting a career high TS% on high attempts scoring 27.6 per game)
DRTG - 114 (People say he's bad but according to this site he isn't)

Wiggins-

ORTG- 103 (Wiggins is shooting a career high from FT and 3P but career low 41% from two :rolls: )
DRTG - 116 (Career high)

[ItsJustSoSab]

O for 12 :(

[Lipoli390]

Honestly who cares at this point? They've both shown some ability in the context of losing. I give the slight edge to Wiggins because Zach demands the ball so much and the only thing he can do is score, but honestly there seems better things to focus my energy on. Like how to tape Taylor saying something contrversial so he is forced to sell the team.

Zach is averaging over 5 rebounds and 4.4 assists per game so far this season. Obviously Zach can do (is doing) a lot more than just score. Oh, Zach is averaging 25.4 points per game this season, which would be enough to give him the edge over 16.5 PPG this season even if Zach really did nothing but score. I'll add that Zach is hitting over 86% of his free throws and getting to the line 7 times a game. Compared that to Wiggins this season who is hitting only 75% of his free throws and getting the line only 2.4 times per game. Meanwhile Wiggins is shooting only 37% from the field compared to Zach's 43.4%.

Zach is an almost 37% three-point shooter over his career and has always had a beautiful shooting stroke. So I fully expect his three-point shooting to bump up a lot from its current 30% level as the season progresses and over the course of Zach's career gong forward. What's impressive is how Zach's dribble-drive game has matured, making him a multi-dimenational scoring threat. Considering his improved rebounding and playmaking makes him even more impressive compared to Wiggins. Some nights Wiggins a better defender than Zach but some nights, like tonight, Zach is actually better, which is more an indictment of Wiggins than a feather in Zach's cap.

Then I look at the trajectory of these two players. In Zach, I see a late bloomer who came off the bench in college and whose NBA career was derailed by ACL surgery, yet he continues to improve in multiple areas - scoring, drawing fouls, rebounding and assists. Wiggins trajectory seems to be trending in the opposite direction. As for wins and losses, that's a silly basis for comparision when you consider that LaVine is playing on one of the worst teams in the League with very little talent around him. I'd love to see him on this Wolves team with KAT, Covington, Taj, and Rose.

Let me ask this question. If the Wolves offered Wiggins to the Bulls straight up for Zach LaVine, would the Bulls take that deal? My answer is an unequivocal, absolutely certain No. The Bulls would reject that deal in a nanosecond as would just about any other organization presented with that offer.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Neither Wig nor Zach are players that are going to win you a championship. The holes in their games are enormous, and the Wolves should be grateful that they are only stuck with one of them. And even better, that they turned one of these below average basketball players into Covington/Saric...unbelievable! (Thank you, Thibs...but please go away now)

Comparing Wig to Zach is a valid discussion, because there's no doubt in my mind that Thibs had a choice of which one he was going to give up for Butler (the Bulls beat writer said the Bulls really coveted Wig, and only agreed to take Zach when they realized Thibs was not going to give in). But both of them have been so extraordinarily bad, it's a little like revisiting the choice we all had to make in the 2016 presidential election.

Wig was so awful last night, it almost made me reconsider my conclusion that he is superior to Zach...but then I look at the numbers. Yes, Zach is quite good at getting to the basket...much better than Wig with his terrible handle. But let's not pretend Zach is a good ballhandler...he's averaging an absurd 3.8 TOs per game (compared to Wig's 1.7). And yes, Zach is having a great year scoring the basketball. But we all know he is the first option on a team where nobody else is capable of scoring. Wig averaged a comparable 23.6 PPG 2 years ago when he was one of the main scoring options. To get a better idea of who is the better scorer, look at their career averages: Wig: 19.5, Zach: 14.9...not even close!

2 of the main factors that win basketball games are 3-point shooting and defense, and Zach's horrible performance in both is a main reason for the Bulls' being 5-15. He's now shooting a terrible 29.6% on threes, far behind Wig's 36.5%. And we all know how historically bad Zach is on defense, but the numbers couldn't be clearer...Zach ranks 427th out of 430 NBA players in DRPM. That's right...only 3 of the 430 players in the NBA are worse than Zach LaVine in defense...think about that for a moment!

Wig is bad to be sure, but Zach's "badness" is at a completely different level. Great kid, but a terrible basketball player. Fred Hoiberg understands that there are two ends on a basketball court, and would trade Zach back to us for Wig in a New York minute if he could.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Neither guy is great at anything. And they're damn terrible at some things. I'm taking LaVIne (shocker!)

LST mentions the high TO rate for LaVine compared to Wiggins and it's valid. LaVine had at least two TOs that were ridiculous last night where he lost the ball with nobody around him. But he is averaging nearly 2 more assists per game than Wiggins right now, too. LaVine is also averaging more rebounds (5.3) than Wiggins has at any point in his career.

I just think he's a better offensive player. Ideally, LaVine would be a dynamite 6th man for some team. At least he's better than average at SOMETHING. Wiggins is playing like a random bench player right now with a negative VORP... again... and not above average offensively or defensively.

Defensively, LaVine is terrible with a -1.2 DBPM. Fair enough. But is Wiggins separating himself from him? Not really. His DBPM is nearly as bad at -1.0. At least LaVine has a positive OBPM... while Wiggins is at a ridiculously low -2.7 OBPM.

In fact, after YEARS of us being told to give him more time, we're finding out he's actually getting worse over the past 100 games. Worse.

So I'll take LaVine by default and I'm thankful the Wolves aren't paying both of them big bucks.

[Monster]

At this point even after last night's Game I don't think there is a definitive case for either guy being significantly better overall than the other. That doesn't reflect well on either guy. I'd probably take Lavine because he is getting paid less (that flat 19.5 million might age ok) and can create shots but I do think Wiggins is likely a better defender by a significant margin based on the reports I have seen. You can make some excuses for both guys but Lavine probably has an advantage there coming off an injury and playing with a pretty bad roster.