Wolves roster construction

[Monster]

So we have a couple roster stops left but we will probably in fill one and with Noah as a possible option next month we might not see anything added to the roster for a while. It's time to take a bit of a step back and look at how this year's roster is put together.

First let's look at the age/developmental aspect. There are 15 total players signed to deals.

Young players/prospects.

4 total
Jared Terrell
KBD
Okogie
Patton

These guys are basically rookies and are various forms of prospects but that's what they are. That's 4 players with some sort of youth and upside out of 15 guys. Not bad even if Patton because of his health or Terrell are sorta flyers.

Young talented vets.

3 total
Tyus
Towns
Wiggins

This is a big part of the make or break part of this roster. These guys regardless of contracts etc are guys that are legit young talents. Can they take the next step?

Late 20's not old or in their prime

4 total

Butler
Nunnally
Dieng
CJ Williams

Butler is the guy in his prime and the other guys are at least not old yet so that's a positive.

30 and above

4 Total

Tolliver
Taj
Rose
Teague

Teague and Rose either just turned 30 or will sooon so they aren't old...although Rose is an old 30. Taj and Tolliver are rock solid vets in their roles that are expiring after this season.

So looking at this team it's a decent mix of young guys in their prime/vets and experience.

The experience of the roster could be something worth breaking down but I am going to look a little more at the developmental aspect of this roster and the franchise in general.

So this team has 7 guys with some level of potential and Nunnally is a guy with maybe role player potential which sounds...uninspiring but let's be honest some late round 1st rounders or 2nd round picks are selected with that in mind. Okogie and KBD have some decent potential and at the least seem to have the chance to be good rotation players or solid starters. There is some talent worth being excited about on this roster going forward. Is this team young enough with enough potential? Idk but IMHO it's not bare. Reports seem to continue to be good about the Rookies Okogie and KBD.

Another angle that gets forgotten is the G-League team in Iowa. That franchise keeps the rights to guys if they play in the G-league again. This is another way the Wolves might be able to develop a guy that could be useful. I'm not sure if they would still have the rights to Anthony Brown and obviously Amile is out of the picture but everyone else would be back unless they are traded let go or sign in some other league like Europe. Melo Trimble signed with a team in Australia.

Players of some significance IMO from the Iowa squad if they return:

Guys that have NBA experience like Millsap, Perry Jones or Shawne Williams who probably could sign him to help you for 10 days or something like that maybe a bit more. Perry Jones might still have some level of potential I guess to be worth an actual roster spot but can't stay healthy and still seems inconsistent.

Obviously if Anthony Brown is back he would be a worthwhile player but I am not sure about how that works.

Some younger-ish players with some level of potential to be complimentary NBA players are:

Bryson is my favorite of this group. He has a nice looking shot (42% on 3's) and the athleticism is fun to watch. The overused 3 and D thing is what he could be if is can hit 3's and actually play D.

Wes Washpun is a guy that plays hard, defends and showed some growth as a shooter. He is basically one of those energetic defenders (averages almost a block a game per 36 as an undersized combo guard) you hope can do something worthwhile offensively while playing/guarding PGs. He seemed to improve his game as a shooter scorer (from being bad to not bad lol) as the season went on. Took a huge jump as a FT shooter.

The "potential" returning guys I mentioned here are obviously long shots. The Wolves may add someone even more interesting to the Iowa Wolves roster. I assume that some of the Wolves players will end up signing deals to play elsewhere and make some money. Bryson after the G-league season was over played the reason the season in a league in Mexico. Utilizing the G-League team shouldn't be overlooked. The Rockets and Spurs are teams that have developed guys that contributed to the NBA team. CJ Williams will be a nice player to be down there to help guys along. I'm interested to see how Terrell does. I could see him taking over the role that Trimble played last year as the PG. he probably won't be as good of a PG but is a better shooter and defender. CJ Williams is probably a better player next to him than Brown was because Anthony he is a better/smarter passer. They will both lilely upgrade that team's defense.

[TAFKASP]

Holy wall of words Batman!

[60WinTim]

Good stuff, monster!

I am going to offer up another angle on the roster construction by contrasting it with last year. The most notable difference is where the construction took place. While this year has been all about the bench, last year was all about the starting unit.

LAST YEAR: The draft was all about Butler (along with Patton who everyone knew wouldn't play, even without his injuries). Rubio was swapped for Teague (and ironically, the pick used on Okogie to help our bench THIS year). Taj was added to upgrade our starting PF. This left few resources and a depleted FA pool to fill out the bench. Crawford was the highlight added from the FA leftovers, with Bazz, Brooks and MGH being the final additions. Many blame Thibs for under-using his bench, but he makes a case for that when you look at the bench production. What comes first with Thibs? Giving the bench sufficient minutes so they can produce? Or having a bench produce to earn sufficient minutes? A more productive bench this year ought to give us an answer.

THIS YEAR: The draft was all about the bench with Okogie and KDB. The first FA signings were Rose and Tolliver. Even the Nunnally signing feels intriguing, and not just picking someone from the FA leftovers. The two 2-way contracts seem more purposeful. The early signing of Terrell, along with Rose at SG makes it likely we don't add a traditional 3rd PG like we did with Brooks last year, freeing a roster spot for a more versatile player. And losing Aldrich as our 3rd center also frees up a roster spot for a more versatile player. Replacing a 3rd PG and a 3rd C with more versatile players makes for a deeper bench.

Anyway, while there is a lot of pessimism going around, I am quite upbeat about the Wolves prospects this year. The bench transformation and depth is a huge reason why. I am hopeful a more versatile and productive bench will lessen the load on the starters. And if this leads to more wins, and even more "easy" wins, maybe Thibs will be less "noticeable" on the bench...

[Monster]

Good stuff, monster!

I am going to offer up another angle on the roster construction by contrasting it with last year. The most notable difference is where the construction took place. While this year has been all about the bench, last year was all about the starting unit.

LAST YEAR: The draft was all about Butler (along with Patton who everyone knew wouldn't play, even without his injuries). Rubio was swapped for Teague (and ironically, the pick used on Okogie to help our bench THIS year). Taj was added to upgrade our starting PF. This left few resources and a depleted FA pool to fill out the bench. Crawford was the highlight added from the FA leftovers, with Bazz, Brooks and MGH being the final additions. Many blame Thibs for under-using his bench, but he makes a case for that when you look at the bench production. What comes first with Thibs? Giving the bench sufficient minutes so they can produce? Or having a bench produce to earn sufficient minutes? A more productive bench this year ought to give us an answer.

THIS YEAR: The draft was all about the bench with Okogie and KDB. The first FA signings were Rose and Tolliver. Even the Nunnally signing feels intriguing, and not just picking someone from the FA leftovers. The two 2-way contracts seem more purposeful. The early signing of Terrell, along with Rose at SG makes it likely we don't add a traditional 3rd PG like we did with Brooks last year, freeing a roster spot for a more versatile player. And losing Aldrich as our 3rd center also frees up a roster spot for a more versatile player. Replacing a 3rd PG and a 3rd C with more versatile players makes for a deeper bench.

Anyway, while there is a lot of pessimism going around, I am quite upbeat about the Wolves prospects this year. The bench transformation and depth is a huge reason why. I am hopeful a more versatile and productive bench will lessen the load on the starters. And if this leads to more wins, and even more "easy" wins, maybe Thibs will be less "noticeable" on the bench...

Good breakdown Tim. To me a big difference between this year's offseason when it come sot the bench and last year is last year Thibs and Layden kinda went for highest upside impact player possible. Crawford was a seasoned vet that could score in bunches. Bazz was a young vet that had been able to score in bunches. They held out of Bazz specifically when they could have added a Cunningham type guy. They added a young guy with some theoretical upside in MGH. Patton was an upside pick although I think there was some thinking he could bring some of what he did well in college (rim running getting up and down the floor) to the NBA game but either way he was still raw and then got hurt. Brooks was the only real security blanket type guy (and to some extent Crawford also) added to the bench. I'm guessing they assumed Dieng was going to help there but he didn't.

This year they seemed to have gone for complimentary guys except Rose (more of an upside play) and maybe Terrell depending on how you view him. Terrell still seems like a complimentary type though. With so many other complimentary guys that makes the Rose signing make more sense as well as a shot creator.

Overall I share your optimism about the bench but I do think there is reason for people to be skeptical which actually includes me. Other than the draft picks its not like the Wolves went out and signed one singular proven guy in addition to what we had last year. I think the idea is that somewhat like Lip said in another thread is the combination of guys we added this year better than what we had last year. I think the chance they work together and compliment each other is there. If this group helps get more out of Dieng and Tyus takes a step forward that would help quite a bit.

[Monster]

Lets take a look at the level of experience on this roster and compare it to last year. I'll try and make it somewhat brief for SP's benefit. =)

Same level as last year

Butler
Taj
Dieng
Teague

More experienced with room to improve

Wiggins
Towns
Tyus
Patton

Tyus is a legit rotation player now. Last year he looked like he would be but we weren't sure. Now we know.

New players compared to players they basically replaced

Tolliver Belly
Rose Crawford
Okogie MGH
KBD Aldrich
Nunnally Brooks

2-way spots

Terrell Amile
CJ Williams Anthony Brown

Tolliver is more experienced and knows his role better than Belly. I would call Rose and Crawford a wash. The last 3 guys replace 2 vets and a young player that barely played in the league. So we got less experienced but basically at spots like Aldrich and Brooks that are at best vet min guys although I think they can actually play if actually needed. The new guys fit the roster an in the case of the 2 rookies obviously they have more potential. The concern though is that there is a lack of experience on the roster past the guys that are going to already likely be in the rotation. Between Okogie, KBD and Nunnally those guys have played a total of 13 NBA games. CJ Williams played 3 times that last year (Anthony Brown had played more games coming into last year) so that's only so comforting. In theory CJ Williams and Nunnally should be experienced enough at this point through their experience that they can give you something. Okogie and KBD you are counting on their talent which is a worthwhile bet.

Its worth noting is that 7 of the top rotation guys are now going to be playing in the 2nd year on the team. last year there were 3 new starters and Crawford as a 6th man type. This year its Tolliver who is a guy that seems to be able to fit wherever, rose who was at least here for a bit and a few other guys that will be looking to get just bench minutes. There isn't massive upheaval to figure out so there should be more continuity for sure which should help.

[Lipoli390]

Lets take a look at the level of experience on this roster and compare it to last year. I'll try and make it somewhat brief for SP's benefit. =)

Same level as last year

Butler
Taj
Dieng
Teague

More experienced with room to improve

Wiggins
Towns
Tyus
Patton

Tyus is a legit rotation player now. Last year he looked like he would be but we weren't sure. Now we know.

New players compared to players they basically replaced

Tolliver Belly
Rose Crawford
Okogie MGH
KBD Aldrich
Nunnally Brooks

2-way spots

Terrell Amile
CJ Williams Anthony Brown

Tolliver is more experienced and knows his role better than Belly. I would call Rose and Crawford a wash. The last 3 guys replace 2 vets and a young player that barely played in the league. So we got less experienced but basically at spots like Aldrich and Brooks that are at best vet min guys although I think they can actually play if actually needed. The new guys fit the roster an in the case of the 2 rookies obviously they have more potential. The concern though is that there is a lack of experience on the roster past the guys that are going to already likely be in the rotation. Between Okogie, KBD and Nunnally those guys have played a total of 13 NBA games. CJ Williams played 3 times that last year (Anthony Brown had played more games coming into last year) so that's only so comforting. In theory CJ Williams and Nunnally should be experienced enough at this point through their experience that they can give you something. Okogie and KBD you are counting on their talent which is a worthwhile bet.

Its worth noting is that 7 of the top rotation guys are now going to be playing in the 2nd year on the team. last year there were 3 new starters and Crawford as a 6th man type. This year its Tolliver who is a guy that seems to be able to fit wherever, rose who was at least here for a bit and a few other guys that will be looking to get just bench minutes. There isn't massive upheaval to figure out so there should be more continuity for sure which should help.

I think Rose is a step down from Crawford. Both are poor defenders, but Crawford can carry the team offensivley for stretches while Rose no longer can. In addition, Crawford was durable while Rose is the antithesis of durable. I see Tolliver for Belly as no better than a wash. Tolliver is a more reliable 3-point shooter, but Belly is a better more versatile player overall. So I think the improvement of the Wolves horrific bench depends on continued improvement from Tyus along with net plus play of our two rookies and Nunnally. As for the starters, the keys are Butler being more durable than he's typically been throughout his career and the extent to which Wiggins improves. Yes, I'd like to see Towns improve defensively and I think he will, but his overall production was tremendous. Nearly every NBA team would LOVE to have the 82-game per season production he's provided the past two seasons. Butler needs to play 75+ games and Wiggins needs to have take the big step forward we've been hoping for ever since his rookie season. If all the above happens, then we're looking at at top 4 and possibly a top 2 team. If not, then the Wolves will end up in the 5-10 range.

[Monster]

Lets take a look at the level of experience on this roster and compare it to last year. I'll try and make it somewhat brief for SP's benefit. =)

Same level as last year

Butler
Taj
Dieng
Teague

More experienced with room to improve

Wiggins
Towns
Tyus
Patton

Tyus is a legit rotation player now. Last year he looked like he would be but we weren't sure. Now we know.

New players compared to players they basically replaced

Tolliver Belly
Rose Crawford
Okogie MGH
KBD Aldrich
Nunnally Brooks

2-way spots

Terrell Amile
CJ Williams Anthony Brown

Tolliver is more experienced and knows his role better than Belly. I would call Rose and Crawford a wash. The last 3 guys replace 2 vets and a young player that barely played in the league. So we got less experienced but basically at spots like Aldrich and Brooks that are at best vet min guys although I think they can actually play if actually needed. The new guys fit the roster an in the case of the 2 rookies obviously they have more potential. The concern though is that there is a lack of experience on the roster past the guys that are going to already likely be in the rotation. Between Okogie, KBD and Nunnally those guys have played a total of 13 NBA games. CJ Williams played 3 times that last year (Anthony Brown had played more games coming into last year) so that's only so comforting. In theory CJ Williams and Nunnally should be experienced enough at this point through their experience that they can give you something. Okogie and KBD you are counting on their talent which is a worthwhile bet.

Its worth noting is that 7 of the top rotation guys are now going to be playing in the 2nd year on the team. last year there were 3 new starters and Crawford as a 6th man type. This year its Tolliver who is a guy that seems to be able to fit wherever, rose who was at least here for a bit and a few other guys that will be looking to get just bench minutes. There isn't massive upheaval to figure out so there should be more continuity for sure which should help.

I think Rose is a step down from Crawford. Both are poor defenders, but Crawford can carry the team offensivley for stretches while Rose no longer can. In addition, Crawford was durable while Rose is the antithesis of durable. I see Tolliver for Belly as no better than a wash. Tolliver is a more reliable 3-point shooter, but Belly is a better more versatile player overall. So I think the improvement of the Wolves horrific bench depends on continued improvement from Tyus along with net plus play of our two rookies and Nunnally. As for the starters, the keys are Butler being more durable than he's typically been throughout his career and the extent to which Wiggins improves. Yes, I'd like to see Towns improve defensively and I think he will, but his overall production was tremendous. Nearly every NBA team would LOVE to have the 82-game per season production he's provided the past two seasons. Butler needs to play 75+ games and Wiggins needs to have take the big step forward we've been hoping for ever since his rookie season. If all the above happens, then we're looking at at top 4 and possibly a top 2 team. If not, then the Wolves will end up in the 5-10 range.

I should clarify because rereading my post I wasn't clear but when I mentioned Crawford and Rose as a wash I meant in terms of being experienced players. The bottom line with Rose is mostly health. It was a little over a year ago he played 66 games and scored 18ppg for the Knicks. Neither guys is efficient. To me the upside of Rose is he is not a very good passing PG but play him at SG? My guess is he is gonna make people better more than Crawford did. I think there is a chance he could actually help Dieng offensively.

[KG4Ever]

Monster, you need to factor in the Thibs aging factor. In Thibs years, Butler is old. Noah fell apart at 29, Rose fell apart at 28, Deng fell apart at 31. Going by the these other 3 guys, Butler has anywhere between 1-3 good years left before injuries and overuse catch up with him.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Monster, you need to factor in the Thibs aging factor. In Thibs years, Butler is old. Noah fell apart at 29, Rose fell apart at 28, Deng fell apart at 31. Going by the these other 3 guys, Butler has anywhere between 1-3 good years left before injuries and overuse catch up with him.

I don't think Jimmy falls under Thibs age because he's always missed time every year so his actual minutes played aren't very high. You can't put on miles from the training room.

[KG4Ever]

Monster, you need to factor in the Thibs aging factor. In Thibs years, Butler is old. Noah fell apart at 29, Rose fell apart at 28, Deng fell apart at 31. Going by the these other 3 guys, Butler has anywhere between 1-3 good years left before injuries and overuse catch up with him.

I don't think Jimmy falls under Thibs age because he's always missed time every year so his actual minutes played aren't very high. You can't put on miles from the training room.

I disagree. Playing under Thibs will absolutely shorten Jimmy's career and perhaps Thibs has contributed to Butler being injury plagued. I find it strange that you argue that his missed time will prolong his career. I would wager that players who miss on average of 15 games or more a season (or whatever it is for Butler) have a shorter career. I would think average minutes per game along with minutes of hard practice time do matter, as you tend to push your body too much and not give it sufficient time to rest and heal. Time will tell, but I honestly expect Butler's effectiveness to steadily fade once he hits 30.