Kareem Interview

[Lipoli390]

I listened to the Summer League interview of Kareem. He is such a smart, together dude. Referring to the complaints about Golden State's super team, he labeled it envy, pointing out that the Warriors earned what they've achieved by making smart decisions. Of course, he's right. It's something I mentioned in another post.

He also mentioned that players who want to win have to eventually relate to one another as family. It was a variation on something Thibs has said a number of time -- "players have to play for each other." The Wolves aren't there -- not even close. So yes, individual players on the Wolves have to improve their games. KAT has to improve his defense and Wiggins has to improve a lot of things in his game on both sides of the ball. Teague needs to stop overdribbling and our bench needs to be better. But in addition to all that, these guys have to come together and play for one another.

LeBron showed up up at Summer League for the Lakers' final game. Ingram was already there and the two greeted one another. Butler and Towns were no where near Las Vegas. I'm not suggesting the Wolves season will turn on the absence of the Wolves best players from this year's Summer League. But it would have been a good sign if any least one of them, preferably both, had at least made a cameo there to see and support their two new young teammates. Butler and Towns are both back from Italy, where they never connected with one another. Maybe Butler was too busy last week talking this his media guy, Cowley, to make a trip to Vegas. I happen to believe both Butler and Towns should have at least made an appearance with their new teammates in Vegas last week.

I know there will be many on this Board who will say I'm making too much of this and that's fine. But there's a slim margin between success and failure or between degrees of success in sports, especially at the highest level, and leadership, team chemistry, etc. can ultimately be the difference between finishing 8th with 47 wins and 3rd with 50 wins in the NBA. And I trust that Kareem knows something about what it takes to win in the NBA. So I expect more out of Butler and Towns, especially Butler than we've seen this summer. What we've seen since the end of last season is his agent angrily rejecting any notion that Butler should help recruit talent to the Wolves and then Butler himself publicly criticizing his most talented teammate through a media crony, coupled with a cutesy non-denial video and other passive-aggressive messages that he might like to play elsewhere. We'll have to see whether Butler shows more interest in leadership and team chemistry as we more forward than he's shown so far.

Maybe Butler should spend some time talking to Kareem. He might learn something about leadership and being part of a championship team.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

At the end of the day there is no one formula for success. These guys are professional basketball players with egos. Kobe and Shaq figured it out to win a title. So did Lebron and Kyrie. It's not a requirement to like your teammates. The only requirement is you be a professional and figure it out on the court. We need to stop holding our team and our players to idealistic success. It's not a fair standard to hold them to when others have figured it out at a championship level with the same quibbles.

[thedoper]

Being a contender in the NBA is a low percentage game to begin with. There are usually 3 or 4 of 30 teams who contend every year. And in most cycles that lasts 4 or 5 years. The proposition of finding at least one all world talent, and building around that talent to a championship level is even lower percentage. Hindsight is the only way to really know on these things. I'm always happier when a team takes legit risks to try and win, I think it does more service to fans than to hold on to hope then lose your stars anyway for envy of action somewhere else. I think Thibs has been smart, he rightly judged our best assets moving forward (KAT and Wiggins) and attempted to give them a chance to win early in their careers. They will never be able to say (like KG or Love) that their front office didn't give them a chance to win and won't be able to use that excuse should they eventually leave. If Jimmy leaves in free agency it's really not the worst thing for us at this point, it simply gives us a chance to retool around either KAT alone or both KAT and Wiggins. Or even better we trade Jimmy and Taj when it becomes clear they don't want to come back and get an asset or two in return.

[Monster]

Kareem is a terrifically interesting person. On trip last year my wife had some podcasts of Larry Wilmore and one was with Kareem. It was terrific whether you were a sports fan or not. I could t believe it when he said he was 70. That didn't seem real but then I did the math...and then I felt old. Lol

I can't remember where I read it but in an interview Towns said He talked to KG after the season and KG told him to get away for a while. Towns said KG was very adamant about it and he said ultimately KG was right it was good to get away and do something else. So that can be a part of why KG was gone.

Tolliver was at the Summer league so that's a positive right? :)

About the Wolves being all together and all that stuff. You know what? This group that's been assembled hasn't had the time to get there. That was partly why I predicted 45 wins last year and ended up being pleasantly surprised when that was surpassed. It's alao worth mentioning that Teague might dribble around too much but he is a guy vocally saying his backup should be playing more minutes.

[Lipoli390]

At the end of the day there is no one formula for success. These guys are professional basketball players with egos. Kobe and Shaq figured it out to win a title. So did Lebron and Kyrie. It's not a requirement to like your teammates. The only requirement is you be a professional and figure it out on the court. We need to stop holding our team and our players to idealistic success. It's not a fair standard to hold them to when others have figured it out at a championship level with the same quibbles.

You're right, Kahns. There's no one formula for success. But it's one thing to win with chemistry issues when you have the best player to every play the game (LeBron) and two of the top 50 players of all time (Kobe and Shaq). Otherwise, you need every edge you can get to win in the NBA. Note that the Shaq/Kobe combo didn't last very long because of their failure to develop a strong bond between them. The Lakers fun could have lasted a lot longer if not for their ego issues. I'm not suggesting that players need to all be best friends or that they can't have disagreements. But sniping at your teammates publicly on a repeated basis, especially through the media, is bound to create a toxic environement that doesn't help and probably hurts what Thibodeau has referred to as players playing for one another as an essential component of winning. It's ridiculous and gratuitous.

I'm not suggesting that the chemistry problem Butler has likely created is irreparable, but I am suggesting that it needs to be remedied if the Wolves are going to achieve their full potential as a team. And it's unfortunate that we're talking about Butler's whining about his teammate rather than talking about him showing up at Summer League and pulling for his new young teammates, one of whom referred to Butler as his favorite player.

[Lipoli390]

Kareem is a terrifically interesting person. On trip last year my wife had some podcasts of Larry Wilmore and one was with Kareem. It was terrific whether you were a sports fan or not. I could t believe it when he said he was 70. That didn't seem real but then I did the math...and then I felt old. Lol

I can't remember where I read it but in an interview Towns said He talked to KG after the season and KG told him to get away for a while. Towns said KG was very adamant about it and he said ultimately KG was right it was good to get away and do something else. So that can be a part of why KG was gone.

Tolliver was at the Summer league so that's a positive right? :)

About the Wolves being all together and all that stuff. You know what? This group that's been assembled hasn't had the time to get there. That was partly why I predicted 45 wins last year and ended up being pleasantly surprised when that was surpassed. It's alao worth mentioning that Teague might dribble around too much but he is a guy vocally saying his backup should be playing more minutes.

I'm fine with Towns going on vacation. But he returned from Italy before Summer League started. Actually, one of the commentators on the Summer League broadcasts mentioned that KAT was in LA working on his game. It's just a short flight to Vegas from there. But as you said, Tolliver was there. :)

I think you're right about the short time frame as a possible factor related to forming team chemistry. And I agree with you completely on Teague being a great teammate. Not only was he vocally advocating for Tyus to get more playing time, he was also the most vocal and active cheerleader for his teammate from the bench. I'm a big Teague fan and I suspect a lot of his overdribbling simply reflected Thibs' iso offense and lack of off-ball movement around him. My only problem with Teague is his contract, although I would like to see him move the ball more quickly in our offensive possessions.

My issue is with Butler. He's acting like a punk. Michael Jordan was hard on his teammates, but he didn't publicly question their heart through media cronies. Neither did LeBron. Those two guys, probably the best players to even play the game, didn't hint at leaving for anotehr team one season after playing with their teams. But we'll just have to see how Butler conducts himself going forward. It's all fixable. Oh, and I do think KAT needs to play better defense and that Wiggins needs to show competitive fire on a consistent basis. :)

[Monster]

Kareem is a terrifically interesting person. On trip last year my wife had some podcasts of Larry Wilmore and one was with Kareem. It was terrific whether you were a sports fan or not. I could t believe it when he said he was 70. That didn't seem real but then I did the math...and then I felt old. Lol

I can't remember where I read it but in an interview Towns said He talked to KG after the season and KG told him to get away for a while. Towns said KG was very adamant about it and he said ultimately KG was right it was good to get away and do something else. So that can be a part of why KG was gone.

Tolliver was at the Summer league so that's a positive right? :)

About the Wolves being all together and all that stuff. You know what? This group that's been assembled hasn't had the time to get there. That was partly why I predicted 45 wins last year and ended up being pleasantly surprised when that was surpassed. It's alao worth mentioning that Teague might dribble around too much but he is a guy vocally saying his backup should be playing more minutes.

I'm fine with Towns going on vacation. But he returned from Italy before Summer League started. Actually, one of the commentators on the Summer League broadcasts mentioned that KAT was in LA working on his game. It's just a short flight to Vegas from there. But as you said, Tolliver was there. :)

I think you're right about the short time frame as a possible factor related to forming team chemistry. And I agree with you completely on Teague being a great teammate. Not only was he vocally advocating for Tyus to get more playing time, he was also the most vocal and active cheerleader for his teammate from the bench. I'm a big Teague fan and I suspect a lot of his overdribbling simply reflected Thibs' iso offense and lack of off-ball movement around him. My only problem with Teague is his contract, although I would like to see him move the ball more quickly in our offensive possessions.

My issue is with Butler. He's acting like a punk. Michael Jordan was hard on his teammates, but he didn't publicly question their heart through media cronies. Neither did LeBron. Those two guys, probably the best players to even play the game, didn't hint at leaving for anotehr team one season after playing with their teams. But we'll just have to see how Butler conducts himself going forward. It's all fixable. Oh, and I do think KAT needs to play better defense and that Wiggins needs to show competitive fire on a consistent basis. :)

A fair post Lip.

There are some pretty nasty stories about how Jordon treated teammates. To me it doesn't matter whether it's to your face or to the media if it's wrong it's wrong. If you think Butler is being a punk with this stuff that's fine. You don't need to add anything to the arguement. It stands on its own adding MJ or Kobe doesn't help for me personally.

One thing that sticks in my mind about Butler is when he went down with his knee injury against Houston Chris Paul and Harden both rushed onto the court to him. That was surprising to me. It seemed clear that that time Butler was thought of pretty highly among some of the league's top players.

Now we have some stuff floating around. Maybe Some of this stuff will damage Butler's status around the league with. It might not with some guys they may absolutely agree with what has been floating around and Butler's criticism of young players. I'm not saying that makes it right or whatever but just sayin there will be guys that support him.

I also wonder how much of all this is Butler just getting in some goofy jabs in at guys in a playful way. He seemed to clearly have an affinity for MGH but there was a number of videos and audio of him giving him a hard time but it seemed obvious he was kidding around. From the jump Butler was obviously a little goofy. He had that phone stunt at the intro press conference. I'm not suggesting we write this off as all kooky Jimmy personality (or even if we did with some of it that it's ok) but I do think there could be some piece of it that is. Even some of his playful stuff might even go to far. I think we have all had someone we were good friends with or family member that gave us a hard time or called us some nickname and even though that wasn't their intention we didn't like it and it didn't feel good. I remember one of my best friends in HS a classmate who I had known some since 5th grade used to joke around with an unflattering nickname. At first it didn't really bother me but after a while I didn't like it anymore. I finally told him and he was pretty cool about it and mostly stopped. Is Butler being a total dick or is he joking around and trying to get these guys to get motivated? Do Towns and Wiggins maybe not appreciate the approach and it maybe pisses them off a but but they know Butler actually has their best interest? Idk that's A LOT of speculation but I do think there is a lot of nuance here that we don't know about and it's worth considering every angle.

This post probably sounds like a defense of Butler. In some ways it is but I do truely try and look at the whole picture although obviously I have my bias as well.

The bottom line is If you are a Wolves fan and you aren't a little worried about Butler leaving for nothing or the whole dynamic of the team right now etc then that's probably a homer take or someone that just doesn't pay attention to all the reports and stuff (wouldn't that be a wonderful way to live!). I'll say this with the information we have I don't see a path that this team could have reasonably taken that there would not be some serious questions about this franchise at this point. If Lavine is still here there would be concerns about his play and health while paying him a nice salary while this team was likely well outside the playoffs last year. There would likely be concerns about Wiggins and Towns also. This franchise needs some more things to happen to move it forward. I think there is a path for that but we have to wait and see.

[Lipoli390]

Kareem is a terrifically interesting person. On trip last year my wife had some podcasts of Larry Wilmore and one was with Kareem. It was terrific whether you were a sports fan or not. I could t believe it when he said he was 70. That didn't seem real but then I did the math...and then I felt old. Lol

I can't remember where I read it but in an interview Towns said He talked to KG after the season and KG told him to get away for a while. Towns said KG was very adamant about it and he said ultimately KG was right it was good to get away and do something else. So that can be a part of why KG was gone.

Tolliver was at the Summer league so that's a positive right? :)

About the Wolves being all together and all that stuff. You know what? This group that's been assembled hasn't had the time to get there. That was partly why I predicted 45 wins last year and ended up being pleasantly surprised when that was surpassed. It's alao worth mentioning that Teague might dribble around too much but he is a guy vocally saying his backup should be playing more minutes.

I'm fine with Towns going on vacation. But he returned from Italy before Summer League started. Actually, one of the commentators on the Summer League broadcasts mentioned that KAT was in LA working on his game. It's just a short flight to Vegas from there. But as you said, Tolliver was there. :)

I think you're right about the short time frame as a possible factor related to forming team chemistry. And I agree with you completely on Teague being a great teammate. Not only was he vocally advocating for Tyus to get more playing time, he was also the most vocal and active cheerleader for his teammate from the bench. I'm a big Teague fan and I suspect a lot of his overdribbling simply reflected Thibs' iso offense and lack of off-ball movement around him. My only problem with Teague is his contract, although I would like to see him move the ball more quickly in our offensive possessions.

My issue is with Butler. He's acting like a punk. Michael Jordan was hard on his teammates, but he didn't publicly question their heart through media cronies. Neither did LeBron. Those two guys, probably the best players to even play the game, didn't hint at leaving for anotehr team one season after playing with their teams. But we'll just have to see how Butler conducts himself going forward. It's all fixable. Oh, and I do think KAT needs to play better defense and that Wiggins needs to show competitive fire on a consistent basis. :)

A fair post Lip.

There are some pretty nasty stories about how Jordon treated teammates. To me it doesn't matter whether it's to your face or to the media if it's wrong it's wrong. If you think Butler is being a punk with this stuff that's fine. You don't need to add anything to the arguement. It stands on its own adding MJ or Kobe doesn't help for me personally.

One thing that sticks in my mind about Butler is when he went down with his knee injury against Houston Chris Paul and Harden both rushed onto the court to him. That was surprising to me. It seemed clear that that time Butler was thought of pretty highly among some of the league's top players.

Now we have some stuff floating around. Maybe Some of this stuff will damage Butler's status around the league with. It might not with some guys they may absolutely agree with what has been floating around and Butler's criticism of young players. I'm not saying that makes it right or whatever but just sayin there will be guys that support him.

I also wonder how much of all this is Butler just getting in some goofy jabs in at guys in a playful way. He seemed to clearly have an affinity for MGH but there was a number of videos and audio of him giving him a hard time but it seemed obvious he was kidding around. From the jump Butler was obviously a little goofy. He had that phone stunt at the intro press conference. I'm not suggesting we write this off as all kooky Jimmy personality (or even if we did with some of it that it's ok) but I do think there could be some piece of it that is. Even some of his playful stuff might even go to far. I think we have all had someone we were good friends with or family member that gave us a hard time or called us some nickname and even though that wasn't their intention we didn't like it and it didn't feel good. I remember one of my best friends in HS a classmate who I had known some since 5th grade used to joke around with an unflattering nickname. At first it didn't really bother me but after a while I didn't like it anymore. I finally told him and he was pretty cool about it and mostly stopped. Is Butler being a total dick or is he joking around and trying to get these guys to get motivated? Do Towns and Wiggins maybe not appreciate the approach and it maybe pisses them off a but but they know Butler actually has their best interest? Idk that's A LOT of speculation but I do think there is a lot of nuance here that we don't know about and it's worth considering every angle.

This post probably sounds like a defense of Butler. In some ways it is but I do truely try and look at the whole picture although obviously I have my bias as well.

The bottom line is If you are a Wolves fan and you aren't a little worried about Butler leaving for nothing or the whole dynamic of the team right now etc then that's probably a homer take or someone that just doesn't pay attention to all the reports and stuff (wouldn't that be a wonderful way to live!). I'll say this with the information we have I don't see a path that this team could have reasonably taken that there would not be some serious questions about this franchise at this point. If Lavine is still here there would be concerns about his play and health while paying him a nice salary while this team was likely well outside the playoffs last year. There would likely be concerns about Wiggins and Towns also. This franchise needs some more things to happen to move it forward. I think there is a path for that but we have to wait and see.

Well said, Monster. I think you've pretty much put a wrap on this conversation for me. The most important part of your post comes through in your last two sentences. As yo said, we definitely need some more things to happen to move the franchise forward and we'll have to wait and see if the path forward develops.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

"Listen kid, I've been hearing that my whole life. You try hauling Lanier and Walton up and down the court for 48 minutes."
-Roger Murdoch

[Monster]

Also In my mind Kareem is one of the greatest players of all time and he doesn't get talked about as such enough. In addition his longevity was pretty amazing.