60WinTim wrote:I think you are absolutely right about it being Belly OR Tolliver OR someone else that will get the big chunk of money, and expect playing time. Then we'll see who gets picked up with the 2 vet minimum contracts.
But your math is still wrong. For calculating salaries against the luxury tax, even FA rookies count as 2nd-year veterans at $1,512,000. It's only your own 2nd round picks that can count as a 1st-year veteran. And even with that, my math says we have $7,351,085 to throw at a player and stay under the luxury tax.
Your math is wrong, Tim. I'm certain of it. My mistake was assuming that we could sign a rookie FA for the the 2nd round minimum. So it's a lot worse for the Wolves than I thought. If you're right about the FA rookie amount counted towards the luxury tax, then signing two free agents will take slightly over $3 million away from our luxury tax room. That would mean we only have about $4.764 million to pay Belly or an alternative to Belly in the first year of their contract.
Maybe you're not counting Okogie's salary. Or maybe you've failed to include the dead cap amounts for Bazz, Kevin Martin and Cole Aldrich. Just add up all the 2018 salaries plus those deal cap amounts and Okogie's rookie minimum for the #20 pick. The math tells the tale.
What makes you think the Bazz dead money is correct? And did you stretch the Aldrich buyout over 3 years? Are you mistakenly including the incomplete roster charge? I am adding up the numbers right from spotrac (with the exception of the Bazz dead money).
What makes you think the Bazz dead money isn't correct? I did not count the incomplete roster charge. I didn't stretch Cole's money because I haven't heard the Wolves intend to do that and I'm not sure it makes sense. But I recalculated with Cole's money stretched to a $1.4 million hit. That would leave us with $8,445,849 in luxury tax room with 3 roster spots to fill. Assuming we fill two of them at the bare minimum of $1,512, 601, we'd have $5,420,647 to pay Belly or an alternative to Belly. If I'm wrong about Bazz, then we'd have $6,659,263 to pay Belly. That's probably enough to sign Belly. But again, it's not enough to sign Belly and anyone other than a marginal vet to the vet minimum.
If you sign a rookie to a vet min contract of $831,000 or whatever that's what they count against the cap not what a 2nd year guy would make. That's why you see these teams sign those guys to deals to fill out the roster they are cheaper. OKC is gonna get to sign 3 second round picks for first cheap if they want them and it's OKC so yeah they might all be worthwhile. Lol
Regardless the Wolves have fairly limited amounts of money if they keep Belly or sign some outside FA instead of Belly it doesn't matter how you add up the numbers.
Monster - there is a catch. The $831,000 only counts for YOUR OWN 2nd round pick rookies. Signing other FA rookies does count as a 2nd year player...
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q18
For players who signed as free agents (i.e., not draft picks) under the current CBA, and make less than the two-year minimum salary, the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is used in place of their actual salary.
While some of us might be calculating a different number, I think we all agree our luxury tax space is limited and that we can't afford to sign both Belly and any of the guys we're apparently interested in, namely Tolliver, Amir Johnson or even Dante Cunningham. None of those guys will want come here as the new Cole Aldrich playing behind KAT, Gibson, Gorgui and Belly. Then there's Patton who might someday be able to play.
The real question for us on this Board is whether you'd prefer Belly over Tolliver or Johnson. Obviously, there's no question Belly's the better choice over Dante Cunningham. So what do you guys think?
lipoli390 wrote:While some of us might be calculating a different number, I think we all agree our luxury tax space is limited and that we can't afford to sign both Belly and any of the guys we're apparently interested in, namely Tolliver, Amir Johnson or even Dante Cunningham. None of those guys will want come here as the new Cole Aldrich playing behind KAT, Gibson, Gorgui and Belly. Then there's Patton who might someday be able to play.
The real question for us on this Board is whether you'd prefer Belly over Tolliver or Johnson. Obviously, there's no question Belly's the better choice over Dante Cunningham. So what do you guys think?
Agreed! I would be happy either Belly or Tolliver, but would probably lean towards Tolliver.
So best case the next few years for us is the 4th seed...so do we offer Butler the max deal this Summer and if he turns it down trade him? Kuzma, Ingram, and Hart or Saric, Covington, Fultz, and Miami's first?
60WinTim wrote:Monster - there is a catch. The $831,000 only counts for YOUR OWN 2nd round pick rookies. Signing other FA rookies does count as a 2nd year player...
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q18
For players who signed as free agents (i.e., not draft picks) under the current CBA, and make less than the two-year minimum salary, the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is used in place of their actual salary.
Interesting Tim I learned something new! That does make sense because it helps keep vets in the league. That rule only applies to luxury tax though. For just regular salary cap purposes it would be the cheaper salaries. I kinda doubt the Wolves are gonna sign more than one more rookie at the most but I kinda doubt they sign another one.
rapsuperstar31 wrote:So best case the next few years for us is the 4th seed...so do we offer Butler the max deal this Summer and if he turns it down trade him? Kuzma, Ingram, and Hart or Saric, Covington, Fultz, and Miami's first?
I know what I'd do. I'd trade him to the Sixers for the package you suggested, although I don'lt think we'd get all of those assets. Butler is good, but he's no LeBron James. I think we could get Covington, Fultz and Miami's 1st. I wouldn't want Fultz and would insist on Saric. I"m not sure the Sixers would do that deal, but they might. In reality, Thibs will NEVER trade Butler. So Butler won't be traded so long as Thibodeau is the Wolves PBO.
rapsuperstar31 wrote:So best case the next few years for us is the 4th seed...so do we offer Butler the max deal this Summer and if he turns it down trade him? Kuzma, Ingram, and Hart or Saric, Covington, Fultz, and Miami's first?
I know what I'd do. I'd trade him to the Sixers for the package you suggested, although I don'lt think we'd get all of those assets. Butler is good, but he's no LeBron James. I think we could get Covington, Fultz and Miami's 1st. I wouldn't want Fultz and would insist on Saric. I"m not sure the Sixers would do that deal, but they might. In reality, Thibs will NEVER trade Butler. So Butler won't be traded so long as Thibodeau is the Wolves PBO.
Agreed but Jimmy does seem like a Popovich kind of player and they may prefer to take on Jimmy in a 3 way. But yeah I know its just a dream!
