With all the negativity surrounding this team

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Can we just blow this thing up already and get back to the joy of having hope for the future? I was more hopeful back when the team sucked and was supposed to suck. This particular group of players/coaches/ownership have sucked the joy out of being a Wolves fan all while actually having a winning record.

I don't think I was ever as down on this team during their 13 year run of ineptitude. This team just isn't likeable.

I'm not sure how much joy there was to be sucked....I mean, really? There was a lot of joy as Wolves fans prior to last season?

I'm as much of a critic of this regime as the next guy, but if you look at last season on its merits, it was a success. We won 47 games and made the playoffs for the first time in over a decade. That was badly needed for a very large portion of the fan base and even drew some casual fans back into the arena.

[Coolbreeze44]

I'm with SP, it's a hard team to like. They play an unappealing style, lack any sense of vision, and have no chance of contending now or in the intermediate future. What's to like?

I know one thing to like.....They were 30-11 at home and attendance went up. A lot more fans left the arena satisfied than in years past. Putting out a competitive product that plays well at home and gives folks a nice night out is still worth something in my book.

Raise your expectations Q. It's been over 30 years and this franchise has never made the NBA finals. They've only been to a conference final once. You and all the guys on this forum who have stuck with this team through all the downs deserve better than that.

[kekgeek]

I'm with SP, it's a hard team to like. They play an unappealing style, lack any sense of vision, and have no chance of contending now or in the intermediate future. What's to like?

I know one thing to like.....They were 30-11 at home and attendance went up. A lot more fans left the arena satisfied than in years past. Putting out a competitive product that plays well at home and gives folks a nice night out is still worth something in my book.

Raise your expectations Q. It's been over 30 years and this franchise has never made the NBA finals. They've only been to a conference final once. You and all the guys on this forum who have stuck with this team through all the downs deserve better than that.

Then we should just blow it up again, We should trade Butler for picks, Wiggins for expiring contracts and Kat for the kings ransom of picks.

I get the frustrations, but if this has a 0% chance to ever contend with this roster (I don't believe this) we need our own process and Kat is just to good for us to be the worst team in the NBA to get a high lotto pick to add talent around him.

If you don't have a top 5 player in the NBA you really have no chance at winning a title, so we should blow it up in your scenario.

I think the reason there is so much frustration on this board is because Thibs has no personality, we run a old school boring ass offense, our "stars" are fighting. Butler is doing the same things he did to blow up chicago. Kat and Wiggins are not living up to the potential we thought they could of had a couple of years ago.


Here are some things that can and should help us in the future. Cap is projected to go up another 8 million next year. Butler and Taj could come off the books next year and Teague also could. So we could have cap space in 2 years to retool the roster where needed. We don't owe any draft pick in the future so the ammo is there to keep adding young talent. Adam Silver is hell bent on having HS players allowed to declare for the draft, people are projecting the 20-21 season. So in theory we could have cap space and be part of a "double draft" meaning HS seniors and College freshman could be all available in one draft so there could be really good players for the playoff teams in that draft. I would also say with HS kids in general it creates more variance. Meaning better teams in theory should be able to add better players late just because of the variance.

[WildWolf2813]

I'm with SP, it's a hard team to like. They play an unappealing style, lack any sense of vision, and have no chance of contending now or in the intermediate future. What's to like?

I know one thing to like.....They were 30-11 at home and attendance went up. A lot more fans left the arena satisfied than in years past. Putting out a competitive product that plays well at home and gives folks a nice night out is still worth something in my book.

Raise your expectations Q. It's been over 30 years and this franchise has never made the NBA finals. They've only been to a conference final once. You and all the guys on this forum who have stuck with this team through all the downs deserve better than that.

This franchise hasn't given you a reason to raise your expectations. We won games, but I didn't necessarily feel more hopeful because it wasn't being led by the guys who were supposed to lead us. We deserve better, but I'm not gonna expect better. This team has been run so poorly that our options are basically either lose with frightening consistency or MAYBE make the playoffs and get a win. We almost have to treat the playoffs the way mid-majors treat making the NCAA tournament. It sucks that it has to be like this, but the front office hasn't given us a reason to buy into their long term plans.

[Monster]

You know what's funny? That infighting bulls team was up on the glorious Brad stevens coached Celtics in 2017 before Rondo got hurt. That Bulls team was playing Hoiberg's style of basketball. What might have happened if Rondo hasn't gotten hurt and the Bulls made it to the 2nd round? Like Britt Robson said after some of this reported stuff hit the fan. These guys are all gonna be here and there will be questions to be answered at the end of the year. Let's see what the outcome actually is.

It's kinda bizarre how Timberwolves fans here who lived through hopeless years where so many hopeless things happened (we don't need to list them) and yet there is no hope for this group. It's honestly strange. I can't really figure it out.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

I think some people just need something to gripe about.

usually its the player getting the brunt of the hate mixed in with a little distaste for the team. The past few years it was rubio. Now with him gone, wiggins is taking the full brunt of it. And now we are starting to see a little more dislike creeping towards kat.

Get rid of wiggins, we'll find someone else.
Get rid of thibs, we'll find something not to like about the new guy.

Making the playoffs should have been a good thing, but for some reason it isnt good enough.

[60WinTim]

You know what's funny? That infighting bulls team was up on the glorious Brad stevens coached Celtics in 2017 before Rondo got hurt. That Bulls team was playing Hoiberg's style of basketball. What might have happened if Rondo hasn't gotten hurt and the Bulls made it to the 2nd round? Like Britt Robson said after some of this reported stuff hit the fan. These guys are all gonna be here and there will be questions to be answered at the end of the year. Let's see what the outcome actually is.

It's kinda bizarre how Timberwolves fans here who lived through hopeless years where so many hopeless things happened (we don't need to list them) and yet there is no hope for this group. It's honestly strange. I can't really figure it out.

Agreed. To look at the time right now and declare they are done? I don't get it.

[Coolbreeze44]

I think some people just need something to gripe about.

usually its the player getting the brunt of the hate mixed in with a little distaste for the team. The past few years it was rubio. Now with him gone, wiggins is taking the full brunt of it. And now we are starting to see a little more dislike creeping towards kat.

Get rid of wiggins, we'll find someone else.
Get rid of thibs, we'll find something not to like about the new guy.

Making the playoffs should have been a good thing, but for some reason it isnt good enough.[/quote

I think some people just need something to gripe about.

usually its the player getting the brunt of the hate mixed in with a little distaste for the team. The past few years it was rubio. Now with him gone, wiggins is taking the full brunt of it. And now we are starting to see a little more dislike creeping towards kat.

Get rid of wiggins, we'll find someone else.
Get rid of thibs, we'll find something not to like about the new guy.

Making the playoffs should have been a good thing, but for some reason it isnt good enough.

Yeah I admit it, making the playoffs isn't good enough for me. Not when you had back to back #1 picks and rookies of the year. Not when we had a chance to bring in a real GM and a coach who could connect with the young players. Not when we had cap space and other draft assets to continue to build toward something much more significant.

This was our best chance in decades to finally be able to play with the big boys and we flat out blew it. And Okogie and Diop though promising are not going to change this.

[Lipoli390]

I think some people just need something to gripe about.

usually its the player getting the brunt of the hate mixed in with a little distaste for the team. The past few years it was rubio. Now with him gone, wiggins is taking the full brunt of it. And now we are starting to see a little more dislike creeping towards kat.

Get rid of wiggins, we'll find someone else.
Get rid of thibs, we'll find something not to like about the new guy.

Making the playoffs should have been a good thing, but for some reason it isnt good enough.[/quote

I think some people just need something to gripe about.

usually its the player getting the brunt of the hate mixed in with a little distaste for the team. The past few years it was rubio. Now with him gone, wiggins is taking the full brunt of it. And now we are starting to see a little more dislike creeping towards kat.

Get rid of wiggins, we'll find someone else.
Get rid of thibs, we'll find something not to like about the new guy.

Making the playoffs should have been a good thing, but for some reason it isnt good enough.

Yeah I admit it, making the playoffs isn't good enough for me. Not when you had back to back #1 picks and rookies of the year. Not when we had a chance to bring in a real GM and a coach who could connect with the young players. Not when we had cap space and other draft assets to continue to build toward something much more significant.

This was our best chance in decades to finally be able to play with the big boys and we flat out blew it. And Okogie and Diop though promising are not going to change this.

I agree with you, Cool. Making the playoffs isn't good enough. I don't think either one of us is saying we should blow up the team if we don't win a title or at least make the NBA finals next season. I want to see this team finish in the top 4 and win a first round playoff series. Beyond that I'd like to see an upward trajectory that might have this team in line to challenge for a championship several years down the road. I think it's more than fair to expect these things from this team given the assets that Tom Thibodeau inherited when he assumed fully authority over every aspect of the organization's basketball operations.

The history of this franchise and the size of the market are irrelevant. The Warriors, Sixers and Celtics haven't always been where they were last season. All three teams made repeated trips to the draft lottery before achieving their current levels of success. There isn't anything the Warriors, Celtics or Sixers have done that the Wolves can't do as well. It's about front office decision-making -- getting the right front office executives who surround themselves with the right scouts, hire the right head coach, draft the right players and make smart trades and free agent acquisitions. It's OK if those folks make mistakes, so long as those mistakes are eclipsed by really smart moves and provided the front office quickly rectifies or minimizes the impact of those mistakes.

If Wiggins is the problem, then no one was in a better position to see his limitations than the Wolves coaching and front office staff. In that case, the Wolves should have moved him earlier before the rest of the League saw those same limitations. If Butler is unhappy to the point where he's publicly complaining about his 22-year old teammates after playing with them for only one season, then the Wolves should move him this summer for valuable assets to facilitate retooling around KAT and maybe Wiggins, along with Tyus. I can understand Butler's frustration. He's 29 years old and has knee issues so he might not be inclined to wait for the 22-year old allstar, KAT, to get to the level Butler expects. That's why I've never been crazy about the age mistmatch between Butler and the rest of the Wolves core.

My guess is that Butler will still be frustrated with KAT and Wiggins by the end of this next season. If he is, he'll walk next summer with nothing flowing back to the Wolves in return. Thibodeau and Layden should know more than we know. Maybe things are just fine. But if things are as bad as they appear, with Butler getting so pissy that he's using media cronies to publicly relay his displeasure, then it's time to move on from him. He's certainly not exerting leadership. Leaders don't publicly shame those they lead through media cronies. But again, maybe things aren't so bad. Only Thibs would know (or he certainly should know). We'll just have to see how things play out this upcoming season. Winning has a way of smoothing over bad feelings.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Winning cures a lot of ills... unless you're a Timberwolves fan?

We seemed to be a happier lot losing 60+ games...