Wolves 2018 Free Agent Thread

[Lipoli390]

I think you are absolutely right about it being Belly OR Tolliver OR someone else that will get the big chunk of money, and expect playing time. Then we'll see who gets picked up with the 2 vet minimum contracts.

But your math is still wrong. For calculating salaries against the luxury tax, even FA rookies count as 2nd-year veterans at $1,512,000. It's only your own 2nd round picks that can count as a 1st-year veteran. And even with that, my math says we have $7,351,085 to throw at a player and stay under the luxury tax.

Your math is wrong, Tim. I'm certain of it. My mistake was assuming that we could sign a rookie FA for the the 2nd round minimum. So it's a lot worse for the Wolves than I thought. If you're right about the FA rookie amount counted towards the luxury tax, then signing two free agents will take slightly over $3 million away from our luxury tax room. That would mean we only have about $4.764 million to pay Belly or an alternative to Belly in the first year of their contract.

Maybe you're not counting Okogie's salary. Or maybe you've failed to include the dead cap amounts for Bazz, Kevin Martin and Cole Aldrich. Just add up all the 2018 salaries plus those deal cap amounts and Okogie's rookie minimum for the #20 pick. The math tells the tale.

[60WinTim]

I think you are absolutely right about it being Belly OR Tolliver OR someone else that will get the big chunk of money, and expect playing time. Then we'll see who gets picked up with the 2 vet minimum contracts.

But your math is still wrong. For calculating salaries against the luxury tax, even FA rookies count as 2nd-year veterans at $1,512,000. It's only your own 2nd round picks that can count as a 1st-year veteran. And even with that, my math says we have $7,351,085 to throw at a player and stay under the luxury tax.

Your math is wrong, Tim. I'm certain of it. My mistake was assuming that we could sign a rookie FA for the the 2nd round minimum. So it's a lot worse for the Wolves than I thought. If you're right about the FA rookie amount counted towards the luxury tax, then signing two free agents will take slightly over $3 million away from our luxury tax room. That would mean we only have about $4.764 million to pay Belly or an alternative to Belly in the first year of their contract.

Maybe you're not counting Okogie's salary. Or maybe you've failed to include the dead cap amounts for Bazz, Kevin Martin and Cole Aldrich. Just add up all the 2018 salaries plus those deal cap amounts and Okogie's rookie minimum for the #20 pick. The math tells the tale.

What makes you think the Bazz dead money is correct? And did you stretch the Aldrich buyout over 3 years? Are you mistakenly including the incomplete roster charge? I am adding up the numbers right from spotrac (with the exception of the Bazz dead money).

[Coolbreeze44]

I'm full LST and have been for a long time. The key to the platfrom is you had to be against hiring Thibs in the first place. That is a very exclusive list, so there really isn't much room in the party. In fact, I'd think all charter members have spoken up.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I have yet to read any reports indicating the Wolves' pursuit of any 3-point shooters or rim-protectors. Hmm. It's the disconnect between what Thibs says and what he does. What he does is what he really means. So if you want to know what Thibodeau really thinks about the type of team he wants, just look at the players he's pursued and acquired -- Butler, Gibson, Teague, Rose, Crawford, MGH, Cole Aldrich, and now Trevor Booker and Amir Johnson. Actually, I'm not sure there's a clear pattern here other than the fact that none of these players are known for taking a lot of threes and only one of them, Teague, has shot well from behind the arc over his career. None of these players are known for playing up-tempo offense either and none of them are rim-protectors. I'd like to think all or most of these guys are known for their defense, but Teague, Rose and Crawford have never been known for the defense. Other than his affinity for his favorite former Bulls, I'm not sure what to make of Thibodeau's approach to personnel as PBO.

Um....3 point shooter...your previous post was about Gerald Green have you gone full LST? :) #fullporkchop #porkchoplegend

Also Wolfson reported Thibs talked directly to Tolliver.

Lol. Well Monster, I'm not quite full LST, but I'll admit I'm getting close. :) OK, there's one exception named Gerald Green. He's a career 36% 3-point shooter. I actually wanted to pursue him last season with our 15th roster spot, but Thibs didn't. Not sure how hard Thibs pursued him this summer and not sure I'd trust Doogie's report that he did. In that case, I shouldn't trust Doogie's report that the Wolves are pursuin Amir Johnson. However, I do believe the report we're pursuing Booker because it came from someone other than Doogie. :) As for Tolliver, I don't consider him a high-volume three-point shooter. He's similar to Teague as a relatively low-volume 37% 3-point shooter. Not bad. I'd certainly like him.

C'mon Lip...reconsider...we need you on the full LST train!

To see how close to boarding you are, let me define what it is, and see how much you disagree with. Here's the full LST Thibs platform:

1) We recognize that Thibs has had some success in the past, but does not seem to be the right guy to coach this Wolves' team.

2) We didn't support his hiring in the first place and strongly advocated that Glen replace him after year 2. Since that didn't happen, we now advocate for Glen to fire him mid-season unless we see the team responding to his coaching better than they have.

3) We recognize some good moves he has made as POBO (the Butler deal, the 2018 draft picks) and are happy to praise him when he makes them, but think on balance his bad moves outweigh the good (all other free agent moves, trades and draft picks).

4) We see a number of coaching flaws that we believe are holding the team back, including promoting a slo-mo iso offense that doesn't include enough threes, absurdly out-of-step minutes for his starters that leaves them exhausted at game-end and season-end, and poor time out management that often leaves him at a disadvantage. We see a team that has not improved much on defense during his reign, and while we put some of the blame on the players, we also give Thibs a share of the blame.

5) We see a guy whose sideline behavior is abominable, and who seems incapable of providing his players with any positive reinforcement...only anguished expressions when they do something he disapproves of. We see a guy who has not created an environment where the players seem happy and motivated to play their best.

6) We find attending games not as fun as it could be, and blame Thibs for this to some extent.


There it is...the platform of the Full LST party. Now, which parts do you disagree with?

LST - I've read your platform very carefully. I now realize that I am full LST. In fact, it's not clear that I always have been. I'll add another plank to your platform.

7. The Wolves are a last-resort option among playoff teams for free agents because of Thibodeau all of his characteristics you described above, especially his well-deserved nad accurate reputation for not playing bench players along with his incessant barking from the sideline which includes a level of minute-by-minute micromanagement that can't help but distract the players he's coaching and discourage free agent players from signing here.

So yes, I am and have always been a member of the Full LST Party. I suppose I'll be blacklisted now and for the rest of my time in Wolves fandom.

This offseason playoff teams.

Warriors: resigned there own talent KD. Added nobody else.

Rockets: lost their 4th best player, resigned a bench guy in gerald green, resigned Paul.

Blazers: lost a role player in ed Davis, signed stauskas

Okc: resigned their own talent in grant and George. Added nobody else. Now have the biggest tax in history where our owner will not even touch.

Jazz: have done nothing. One starter and one key role player still free agents.

Pelicans: have done nothing. Boogie still a free agent.

Spurs: resigned Gay, signed bellinini. Their best player and top 3 player in the world wants out.

Wolves: have resigned D. Rose to the min.

Cavs: Done nothing. Could lose LBJ

Raptors: Resigned FVF. nothing else.

Celtics: resigned baynes. Nothing else

76ers: lost 2 huge role players in belinelli and ersan ilyasova, after playing with them in the playoffs. Man brown must suck playing for.

Pacers: sign mccdermett to a pretty big deal.

Bucks: signed illysova.

Heat: have done nothing

Wizards: have done nothing.



So how is thibs so much worse than the rest of the playoff teams. No playoff team outside of the spurs/ bucks have added a guy not already on the team who will be a quality role player.

Our owner won't let us go in the lux tax. What I understand. But because of that thibs hands are tied to bargain basement shopping. Thibs made a big mistake with gorgui contract. If he would have waited he would have signed closer to 7 mil a year (what jaymichiel green signed for) and that would have been huge.

Year 1 thibs kepted the cap clear. Besides Aldrich what in the end was a failure.

Year 2 thibs added 2 above average free agents in Teague and Taj arguably the 2 best free agent signings in wolves history. And Crawford on the cheap what ended up badly. Wolves where added a player in the buyout market and probably made the 3rd biggest impact of the buyout guys. Because Bazz, iso Joe, monroe made 0 impact.

I'm just confused on what you want thibs to do when we are financially hamstrung by our owner (what I understand). One big mistake on gorgui could end up being the killer.

*Wiggins could end up being a big mistake but I don't blame thibs on this. He gambled on the Wiggins improvement and he might lose his job because of it.

All those Western Conference teams you mentioned finished ahead of the Wolves in the standings last season. So it would seem that the Wolves are the team that needs the most improvement. Just saying.

We don't know whether Taylor is prohibiting Thibs from spending into the luxury tax. I actually think it would be imprudent to exceed the luxury tax threshold as a team that barely ended up in the playoffs knowing that next year's payroll would likely make the Wolves a tax repeater, which entails a number of operational limits that would further impede the team's ability to enhance its personnel.

And let's not forget that it was Thibodeau's spending spree that, in one summer, took the Wolves from a team with lots of cap room to a team that's completely capped out and closing in on the luxury tax. It was Thibs who chose to give Gorgui his long, lucrative contract. It was Thibodeau who, 9 months after giving Gorgui that contract and 1 month after referring to Gorgui as the team's most improved player in a meeting with me and other season ticket holders, gave $14 million per year to Taj Gibson and relegated Gorgui to the bench as a result. It was Thibs who signed Teague to a 3-year $19 million per year contract when the Knicks appeared to be the only other team interested. And it was Thibs who gave Wiggins the max contract even though Taylor obviously had some misgivings. Then we came within 1 game of ending up in the lottery behind a team that played most of the season without its starting PF and prize FA acquisition Paul Millsap.

Are there worse GMs and head coaches than Thibodeau? Of course. And we've had worse here in Minnesota -- I'm thinking David Kahn and Kurt Rambis for example. But championship contenders are elite teams and elite teams tend to have elite front offices and head coaches. So far, Thibodeau has proven to be far short of elite in either of his two roles. I'd say he's mediocre at best. That's not good enough for me and it shouldn't be enough for Wolves fans. I'll be happy if I'm proven wrong this upcoming season. If not, it's time for the Wolves to move on from Thibodeau. That's my opinion and that's what makes me a proud member of the Full LST Party. :)

2 games. That's the difference between 3 and 8. That could be just as easily made up by a difference in strength of schedule than needing some great MLE guy to join the team. That could be made up by Jimmy playing the 6+ more games he typically plays in his injury riddled regular seasons that he missed last year. It's negligable and we have better young talent that can still grow over every single team above us. There wasn't some huge gap between us and them that requires a big move to makeup. You literally could have dumb luck make up the difference it was so small. They're the teams that need to make a move because a 70 game season from Jimmy is all we need to be better than all of them without needing to do anything this offseason. So retaining what we had combined with Towns/Wiggins/Tyus improvement combined with dumping Jamal's bum ass and having a little more injury luck (anywhere from 6-10 more games) with Jimmy has us well above them all.

[60WinTim]

Don't know how accurate this is, but it implies Bazz declined his player option in order to be waived. I have a hard time believing the Wolves would waive Bazz if they still had to pay him next season...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2762241-shabazz-muhammad-timberwolves-reportedly-agree-to-contract-buyout

Muhammad signed a two-year deal this past offseason that included a player option for next season. He could have made about $1.8 million in 2018-19 but a buyout removes the opportunity while clearing a roster spot for Minnesota.

[60WinTim]

And then there is this from the Strib, so I am convinced spotrac has the Bazz money wrong.

http://www.startribune.com/shabazz-muhammad-reaches-contract-buyout-with-timberwolves/475613603/

By agreeing to the buyout, Muhammad forgoes a veteran's minimum player option for next season.

[kekgeek]

Hezonja to the Knicks not sure on the money. Like the gamble for the Knicks though

[Monster]

Hezonja to the Knicks not sure on the money. Like the gamble for the Knicks though

Yes that's the type of team that makes sense and they should play him a lot...will they? Idk they already have Knox and Hardaway jr. Speaking of offensive scoring forwards is Beas a FA?

[Lipoli390]

I think you are absolutely right about it being Belly OR Tolliver OR someone else that will get the big chunk of money, and expect playing time. Then we'll see who gets picked up with the 2 vet minimum contracts.

But your math is still wrong. For calculating salaries against the luxury tax, even FA rookies count as 2nd-year veterans at $1,512,000. It's only your own 2nd round picks that can count as a 1st-year veteran. And even with that, my math says we have $7,351,085 to throw at a player and stay under the luxury tax.

Your math is wrong, Tim. I'm certain of it. My mistake was assuming that we could sign a rookie FA for the the 2nd round minimum. So it's a lot worse for the Wolves than I thought. If you're right about the FA rookie amount counted towards the luxury tax, then signing two free agents will take slightly over $3 million away from our luxury tax room. That would mean we only have about $4.764 million to pay Belly or an alternative to Belly in the first year of their contract.

Maybe you're not counting Okogie's salary. Or maybe you've failed to include the dead cap amounts for Bazz, Kevin Martin and Cole Aldrich. Just add up all the 2018 salaries plus those deal cap amounts and Okogie's rookie minimum for the #20 pick. The math tells the tale.

What makes you think the Bazz dead money is correct? And did you stretch the Aldrich buyout over 3 years? Are you mistakenly including the incomplete roster charge? I am adding up the numbers right from spotrac (with the exception of the Bazz dead money).

What makes you think the Bazz dead money isn't correct? I did not count the incomplete roster charge. I didn't stretch Cole's money because I haven't heard the Wolves intend to do that and I'm not sure it makes sense. But I recalculated with Cole's money stretched to a $1.4 million hit. That would leave us with $8,445,849 in luxury tax room with 3 roster spots to fill. Assuming we fill two of them at the bare minimum of $1,512, 601, we'd have $5,420,647 to pay Belly or an alternative to Belly. If I'm wrong about Bazz, then we'd have $6,659,263 to pay Belly. That's probably enough to sign Belly. But again, it's not enough to sign Belly and anyone other than a marginal vet to the vet minimum.

[60WinTim]

I think you are absolutely right about it being Belly OR Tolliver OR someone else that will get the big chunk of money, and expect playing time. Then we'll see who gets picked up with the 2 vet minimum contracts.

But your math is still wrong. For calculating salaries against the luxury tax, even FA rookies count as 2nd-year veterans at $1,512,000. It's only your own 2nd round picks that can count as a 1st-year veteran. And even with that, my math says we have $7,351,085 to throw at a player and stay under the luxury tax.

Your math is wrong, Tim. I'm certain of it. My mistake was assuming that we could sign a rookie FA for the the 2nd round minimum. So it's a lot worse for the Wolves than I thought. If you're right about the FA rookie amount counted towards the luxury tax, then signing two free agents will take slightly over $3 million away from our luxury tax room. That would mean we only have about $4.764 million to pay Belly or an alternative to Belly in the first year of their contract.

Maybe you're not counting Okogie's salary. Or maybe you've failed to include the dead cap amounts for Bazz, Kevin Martin and Cole Aldrich. Just add up all the 2018 salaries plus those deal cap amounts and Okogie's rookie minimum for the #20 pick. The math tells the tale.

What makes you think the Bazz dead money is correct? And did you stretch the Aldrich buyout over 3 years? Are you mistakenly including the incomplete roster charge? I am adding up the numbers right from spotrac (with the exception of the Bazz dead money).

What makes you think the Bazz dead money isn't correct? I did not count the incomplete roster charge. I didn't stretch Cole's money because I haven't heard the Wolves intend to do that and I'm not sure it makes sense. But I recalculated with Cole's money stretched to a $1.4 million hit. That would leave us with $8,445,849 in luxury tax room with 3 roster spots to fill. Assuming we fill two of them at the bare minimum of $1,512, 601, we'd have $5,420,647 to pay Belly or an alternative to Belly. If I'm wrong about Bazz, then we'd have $6,659,263 to pay Belly. That's probably enough to sign Belly. But again, it's not enough to sign Belly and anyone other than a marginal vet to the vet minimum.

I posted the reasons above why the Bazz dead money IS INCORRECT. And the cap hit for stretching Cole's buyout is just under .7 mil, not 1.4 mil. Of course, you are correct we have not seen anything that says the Wolves have done that, yet.

Anyway, whether it is Belly, Tolliver or someone else, we do have an attractive amount of money to throw at that one person.