2018 NBA Draft

[Lipoli390]

I asked my friend if he could get some more information from his source. He said his source told him it would be Dieng and #20 for a future pick. But apparently he didn't specific the round or provide any other info. Apparently, they were having a conversation earlier today and my friend asked him if he had any idea what the Wolves would be doing this off-season. His response was that the Wolves were going to trade #20 and Gorgui for a future pick to get Gorgui's salary off the books to avoid the luxury tax. He said the Wolves would definitely re-sign Rose and would probably be for more than the vet minimum. I'm guessing it will be the Biennial Exception. My friend's going to talk to this guy tomorrow morning, so maybe we can get some more information. I'll relay what I hear.

It's only a few hours before we find out if this happens or not. :) I still think Rose might sign for the vet min but if it's the BAE he gets I can probably live with that but it's not my preference.

Let's say this trade did go down I think it could be viewed differently by many fans if they were able to to get a 2nd pick in the 2nd round/move up a few spots to get one of those wings we all like OR if they end up with a rotation player they select at #48.

I can't be happy with giving up a first round pick to dump salary unless it's to clear space to make a run for an elite player, which obviously it not what this is about since it still won't put us below the cap. I can accept it if its for a first round pick next season with the chance to be higher than #20. But we need to add young talent to this roster and the sooner we get that young talent here the better to start developing and helping the team. There are a number of good wings likely to be available around #20 in this draft. It seems like a perfect opportunity to add young talent at a position of need.

Lip the point of my post was that people would view this trade differently and likely more positively if the Wolves basically get the level of player one way or another with a later pick than they would with #20. I know that's a lot to ask but like I said IF the Wolves somehow moved up a few spots in the 2nd round it becomes a bit more realistic. It's been reported by several people that it's viewed that picks about 20-40 the talent level is pretty similar.

Nobody is really interested in trading away a 1st round pick to dump a contract. I'll say this though if the Wolves somehow move Dieng and #20 and basically take back no salary or even get some worthwhile rotation player back that's an expiring...it would be kinda impressive to have shed that much salary for that one pick and as you know I still think Dieng has some value as a player. The next question that we share concerns about is what do the Wolves do with their new found breathing room when it comes to salary? If they use that room wisely even down the road then it might not be such a bad deal. Did your source say if a Butler extension is another possibility with the cap space from dealing Dieng? I don't remember for sure but it seems like if the Wolves could get an extension done this summer it would actually lock Butler in at a lower rate than he would get next summer. I know some people aren't really up for commiting to Butler long term but to me if you can get him signed to a deal that's lower than the possible max deal he could get next summer that has some intruige for me. If this deal ended up saving the Wolves nearly 20 million a year for 2 consecutive years (2019-2020and 2020-2021) in salaries between Dieng And Butler's lower max extension...that's a pretty healthy sum of money for just a first round pick. Just to be clear I want to keep the pick and I wouldn't donthe deal but IF the savings against payroll is really significant AND the Wolves wisely utilize that it's a very defensible deal. Lots of ifs and but we are about 12 hours away from having answers!

I understood your point about some people feeling better if... Actually, I agree with that point. I was just expressing my view that I won't be happy regardless. The only way I could feel remotely good about the deal would be getting back a 1st round pick next season that's no worse than lottery protected. As you said, Gorgui still has some value. I think he was demoralized and had trouble suddenly adjusting to coming off the bench last season. To give up a first round pick to dump him exactly one year after Thibs told a group of us that Gorgui was the team's most improved player and 20 months after Thibs gave Gorgui that huge contract based on his own evaluation of him is the sort of colossal mistake that gets people fired. But getting a lottery protected first round pick next season would cause me to give Thibs a lot of credit for mitigating his mistake. So I do see a big difference in how this should be judged depending on the details. And perhaps my source is wrong. I know who my friend's source is, so I can see how he knew about the Butler deal. But I wouldn't think he'd know about a Gorgui deal unless the deal was with the Bulls. We'll know soon. :)

As you know, I think we should trade Butler this summer - preferably to Memphis for the #4 pick, But if we're going to stick with Butler, then signing him this summer at the significantly lower amount would make a lot of sense. I just don't think that's going to happen and I didn't get any information on that from my source. Butler has said his biggest factor in deciding where he signs going forward will be the chance to win. Barely making the playoffs last season had to give him some pause. Butler has also expressed misgivings about playing with Wiggins. Moreover, Gibson's contract is up the end of this season. I suspect Butler sees the Wolves prospects as I do -- uncertain. So I'm 100% sure he'll wait until next summer to make a signing decision.

[foye2smith [enjin:6593248]]

...Butler has also expressed misgivings about playing with Wiggins. Moreover, Gibson's contract is up the end of this season. I suspect Butler sees the Wolves prospects as I do -- uncertain. So I'm 100% sure he'll wait until next summer to make a signing decision.

He is coming off that knee injury and it's not as if he extends and he's stuck there. Who was the last disgruntled star who wasn't moved? They all can get out if they want so it might be beneficial to him to get his guaranteed money now if Minnesota can cut out the space.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I definitely would not be happy if our 1st round pick goes away as a means of unloading G's contract. I've gone back and forth on the wisdom of signing Gibson last season, but despite his having a terrific season and being one of our most consistent players, in hindsight I am against this deal (along with the Teague/Rubio move). In combination with the Butler trade (which I still wholeheartedly support), the offseason created a future salary cap nightmare that may culminate in our surrendering #20 in order to unload the contract of a player who was effective two years ago. I agree with Lip that much of Dieng's fall last season was because of Thibs' moving him to the bench. It seems it would have been better to not sign Gibson and leave G in the starting lineup, and either use Aldrich or a cheaper big man option to back up KAT and G.


I plan to give up my Thursday night to watch the draft, and may throw something at the TV if a trade is announced when they get to 20. As others have said, there are so many attractive SG options that should be available at 20 that even a guy who selected Dunn and Patton in his first two drafting attempts would have a tough time screwing this one up. Keep the pick and take the best SG option available at 20.


I can't help thinking how much more fun tonight would be if we had lost that last game to Denver and were looking at 2 picks in the first round tonight. I recognize we would have missed out on our glorious playoff run, but man it would be nice to have another pick in this SG-loaded draft...especially if Thibs feels compelled to give up #20 because of salary cap concerns. Ah, what could have been...

[Monster]

I asked my friend if he could get some more information from his source. He said his source told him it would be Dieng and #20 for a future pick. But apparently he didn't specific the round or provide any other info. Apparently, they were having a conversation earlier today and my friend asked him if he had any idea what the Wolves would be doing this off-season. His response was that the Wolves were going to trade #20 and Gorgui for a future pick to get Gorgui's salary off the books to avoid the luxury tax. He said the Wolves would definitely re-sign Rose and would probably be for more than the vet minimum. I'm guessing it will be the Biennial Exception. My friend's going to talk to this guy tomorrow morning, so maybe we can get some more information. I'll relay what I hear.

It's only a few hours before we find out if this happens or not. :) I still think Rose might sign for the vet min but if it's the BAE he gets I can probably live with that but it's not my preference.

Let's say this trade did go down I think it could be viewed differently by many fans if they were able to to get a 2nd pick in the 2nd round/move up a few spots to get one of those wings we all like OR if they end up with a rotation player they select at #48.

I can't be happy with giving up a first round pick to dump salary unless it's to clear space to make a run for an elite player, which obviously it not what this is about since it still won't put us below the cap. I can accept it if its for a first round pick next season with the chance to be higher than #20. But we need to add young talent to this roster and the sooner we get that young talent here the better to start developing and helping the team. There are a number of good wings likely to be available around #20 in this draft. It seems like a perfect opportunity to add young talent at a position of need.

Lip the point of my post was that people would view this trade differently and likely more positively if the Wolves basically get the level of player one way or another with a later pick than they would with #20. I know that's a lot to ask but like I said IF the Wolves somehow moved up a few spots in the 2nd round it becomes a bit more realistic. It's been reported by several people that it's viewed that picks about 20-40 the talent level is pretty similar.

Nobody is really interested in trading away a 1st round pick to dump a contract. I'll say this though if the Wolves somehow move Dieng and #20 and basically take back no salary or even get some worthwhile rotation player back that's an expiring...it would be kinda impressive to have shed that much salary for that one pick and as you know I still think Dieng has some value as a player. The next question that we share concerns about is what do the Wolves do with their new found breathing room when it comes to salary? If they use that room wisely even down the road then it might not be such a bad deal. Did your source say if a Butler extension is another possibility with the cap space from dealing Dieng? I don't remember for sure but it seems like if the Wolves could get an extension done this summer it would actually lock Butler in at a lower rate than he would get next summer. I know some people aren't really up for commiting to Butler long term but to me if you can get him signed to a deal that's lower than the possible max deal he could get next summer that has some intruige for me. If this deal ended up saving the Wolves nearly 20 million a year for 2 consecutive years (2019-2020and 2020-2021) in salaries between Dieng And Butler's lower max extension...that's a pretty healthy sum of money for just a first round pick. Just to be clear I want to keep the pick and I wouldn't donthe deal but IF the savings against payroll is really significant AND the Wolves wisely utilize that it's a very defensible deal. Lots of ifs and but we are about 12 hours away from having answers!

I believe I read somewhere if we wanted to redo Butlers contract this Summer we need to cut our salary to about 4 million under the cap, so we would need to cut it all the way to around 96ish million to bump his salary up and extend him 5 years. I am really hoping to get one of the shooters in this draft so if we do move Dieng and the first for nothing this year I hope we can at least buy a draft pick like LA just did from Philly. One trade I may explore would be with Atlanta, Dieng and 20 for Dedmon and either 30 or 34. Dedmon opted in and would be a good get if available plus we could still get a decent player while giving Atlanta more fuel to improve or move up in the draft. If the goal is redoing Butlers contract we may not do this type of deal, or would do this type of deal but would still have to trade out of another big salary like Teagues.

I think you are right I couldn't remember the specifics on how much room we would need but dumping Dieng and the salary for the pick would be a big chunk so...I was kinda hoping. Like Lip said in his post I have doubts Butler would do an extension now anyway even if we did have the room plus he would be giving up some money. He doesn't seem like a guy that concerned with his injuries etc I see him being much more of a guy willing to bet on himself.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

You don't want to get under the cap because that kills the MLE. It goes down to room MLE status rather than non-tax payer status and takes a lot of money with it. I still don't get how the cap hell is hitting us a year earlier than it was supposed to. Nothing changed so why all of a sudden are we in desperate need for cap relief? We're 6.6 below the luxury tax now and Jamal's 5 that will come off make that 11. We have no bird rights on anyone but belly so really we are around 18 below the tax renouncing everyone we can't re-sign anyway without an exception (MGH, Amile, Rose and Brooks). Cole is partially guaranteed so that could open up even more. It would seem to me that we should be sitting at Wiggins, Butler, Towns, Teague, Gibson, G, Tyus, Patton with a first and second round pick, MLE, BAE and minimums to fill out 13-14-15. Belly is a maybe, but if he doesn't come back that's even more room under the tax. And that should all fit under the tax pretty easily. What am I missing?

[foye2smith [enjin:6593248]]

You don't want to get under the cap because that kills the MLE. It goes down to room MLE status rather than non-tax payer status and takes a lot of money with it. I still don't get how the cap hell is hitting us a year earlier than it was supposed to. Nothing changed so why all of a sudden are we in desperate need for cap relief? We're 6.6 below the luxury tax now and Jamal's 5 that will come off make that 11. We have no bird rights on anyone but belly so really we are around 18 below the tax renouncing everyone we can't re-sign anyway without an exception (MGH, Amile, Rose and Brooks). Cole is partially guaranteed so that could open up even more. It would seem to me that we should be sitting at Wiggins, Butler, Towns, Teague, Gibson, G, Tyus, Patton with a first and second round pick, MLE, BAE and minimums to fill out 13-14-15. Belly is a maybe, but if he doesn't come back that's even more room under the tax. And that should all fit under the tax pretty easily. What am I missing?

Just quickly looking at spotrac adding figures the Wolves are around 113.5 million. That includes waiving Aldrich, renouncing all team free agents (means no Belly unless he comes with MLE), ~2 million for our first, and dead money.

They project the luxury tax around 123 so they have approximately 8-10 million in room from the luxury tax. Using the full MLE would take the Wolves to the doorstep of the tax or passed it depending where the exact number lands which they won't know until the start of the league year.

They've got little wiggle room to operate before hitting the tax, but dumping Gorgui gives them more breathing room. Then forget it when KAT's extension kicks in. The Wolves will need to be a tax payer or they can just stop trying.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

You don't want to get under the cap because that kills the MLE. It goes down to room MLE status rather than non-tax payer status and takes a lot of money with it. I still don't get how the cap hell is hitting us a year earlier than it was supposed to. Nothing changed so why all of a sudden are we in desperate need for cap relief? We're 6.6 below the luxury tax now and Jamal's 5 that will come off make that 11. We have no bird rights on anyone but belly so really we are around 18 below the tax renouncing everyone we can't re-sign anyway without an exception (MGH, Amile, Rose and Brooks). Cole is partially guaranteed so that could open up even more. It would seem to me that we should be sitting at Wiggins, Butler, Towns, Teague, Gibson, G, Tyus, Patton with a first and second round pick, MLE, BAE and minimums to fill out 13-14-15. Belly is a maybe, but if he doesn't come back that's even more room under the tax. And that should all fit under the tax pretty easily. What am I missing?

Just quickly looking at spotrac adding figures the Wolves are around 113.5 million. That includes waiving Aldrich, renouncing all team free agents (means no Belly unless he comes with MLE), ~2 million for our first, and dead money.

They project the luxury tax around 123 so they have approximately 8-10 million in room from the luxury tax. Using the full MLE would take the Wolves to the doorstep of the tax or passed it depending where the exact number lands which they won't know until the start of the league year.

They've got little wiggle room to operate before hitting the tax, but dumping Gorgui gives them more breathing room. Then forget it when KAT's extension kicks in. The Wolves will need to be a tax payer or they can just stop trying.

Ah for some reason they don't include exceptions in the cap even though it counts towards the cap until renounced.

[rapsuperstar31]

You don't want to get under the cap because that kills the MLE. It goes down to room MLE status rather than non-tax payer status and takes a lot of money with it. I still don't get how the cap hell is hitting us a year earlier than it was supposed to. Nothing changed so why all of a sudden are we in desperate need for cap relief? We're 6.6 below the luxury tax now and Jamal's 5 that will come off make that 11. We have no bird rights on anyone but belly so really we are around 18 below the tax renouncing everyone we can't re-sign anyway without an exception (MGH, Amile, Rose and Brooks). Cole is partially guaranteed so that could open up even more. It would seem to me that we should be sitting at Wiggins, Butler, Towns, Teague, Gibson, G, Tyus, Patton with a first and second round pick, MLE, BAE and minimums to fill out 13-14-15. Belly is a maybe, but if he doesn't come back that's even more room under the tax. And that should all fit under the tax pretty easily. What am I missing?

The only reason we would want to get under the cap would be to lock up Jimmy this Summer in which case we need to be under it. If we want to worry about it next Summer when he is an unrestricted free agent than we are good for this year.

https://zonecoverage.com/2018/timberwolves/the-two-paths-of-jimmy-butlers-next-maximum-contract/

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

Signing Jimmy to a 5 year MAX deal after next year will be a massive mistake.

Look, Jimmy is in my list of top 5 favorite guys for many reasons. But his injury history WILL make it tough for him to earn his next contract. His style of play, coupled with chronic injuries are simply going to make him a bad deal to have for that long. I think this is probably the main reason many like Lip have stated their desire to trade him. I don't think anyone doubts the guys talent and heart....but he is going to continue to miss a lot of games. It would have to be a great deal to move him....but I would listen.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

You don't want to get under the cap because that kills the MLE. It goes down to room MLE status rather than non-tax payer status and takes a lot of money with it. I still don't get how the cap hell is hitting us a year earlier than it was supposed to. Nothing changed so why all of a sudden are we in desperate need for cap relief? We're 6.6 below the luxury tax now and Jamal's 5 that will come off make that 11. We have no bird rights on anyone but belly so really we are around 18 below the tax renouncing everyone we can't re-sign anyway without an exception (MGH, Amile, Rose and Brooks). Cole is partially guaranteed so that could open up even more. It would seem to me that we should be sitting at Wiggins, Butler, Towns, Teague, Gibson, G, Tyus, Patton with a first and second round pick, MLE, BAE and minimums to fill out 13-14-15. Belly is a maybe, but if he doesn't come back that's even more room under the tax. And that should all fit under the tax pretty easily. What am I missing?

The only reason we would want to get under the cap would be to lock up Jimmy this Summer in which case we need to be under it. If we want to worry about it next Summer when he is an unrestricted free agent than we are good for this year.

https://zonecoverage.com/2018/timberwolves/the-two-paths-of-jimmy-butlers-next-maximum-contract/

I see no scenario Jimmy signs an extension this summer. He'd be leaving 46+ million on the table. He's a top 15 player. He's getting a max deal next offseason either from us or someone else.