NY Post: Jimmy Butler’s Timberwolves frustration is now official

[WildWolf2813]

"
Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler could be among the star-studded NBA free agent class of 2019, and a Bulls Insider says a "very accomplished" player is plotting to join them wherever they end up.

On the Bulls Talk Podcast, Mark Schanowski discussed 2019 before Vincent Goodwill interjected.

It was then that Goodwill jumped in...

"There's a third guy that I can't mention, but yeah," Goodwill said about another 2019 free agent joining Irving and Butler. "I can't tell you (who) but I can tell you it's a very accomplished NBA player. Very accomplished."

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/nba-insider-very-accomplished-third-player-plotting-to-join-kyrie-irving--jimmy-butler-in-2019/286433956

I really hope thibs' attachment to Jimmy isn't blinding him.

Good luck finding a team that has the cap space, matching contracts, and/or trade assets to acquire both Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler as well as this mystery player, if there even is a third name. The one name that I'd imagine might be linked to those two is DeAndre Jordan, but I mean, how "accomplished" is he? Is he a guy you'd say "very accomplished" twice about? I don't know about that. Is Klay Thompson going to leave Golden State? I can't see it, honestly. He has a good thing going there with the whole "best two-way player" label some ridiculously place on him and the argument that he's a superstar in a role player's capacity. Carmelo Anthony is pretty accomplished individually, but nobody really cares about him anymore.

I think this is more talk then it will be action -- very much like how Paul George and Kawhi Leonard would join LeBron James in Los Angeles this summer. The big domino fell... and the other two fell through. We're a very long ways away from any more super team construction.

One differenceis that butler and irving are actually close friends on and off the court.

Nets and the knicks can make room for 2 max, but not a third. So i think that third accomplished by is someone who would take less and are close to both irving and butler. Imo, wade or melo. Dj is the obvious choice, but no way he takes a massive pay cut.

I'm aware of the friendship shared by Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler. But if there isn't a place that can realistically find the room to acquire both of them then it's a talking point only. I honestly don't see the Knicks being able to clear the cap necessary to sign both of them and re-sign Porzingis to the max. That's a lot of cap maneuvering that they just don't have the assets and savvy to pull off. And Brooklyn -- while I love what they're doing as well as the management they have in place -- just doesn't have enough of a supporting cast to be a plug and play environment for two stars who want to contend.

I think out of all of these scenarios, the one that's more likely than any of them is the Wolves trade Butler to Boston -- after firing Thibodeau, which is looking more and more likely. I'd go for a deal structured around Butler, Taj Gibson, and a top-20 protected first-round pick to the Celtics for Gordon Hayward and Jaylen Brown. Hayward would have to be thrown in for the simple reason that I can't imagine a scenario where Boston re-signs Irving and Butler to max contracts while keeping both Al Horford and Hayward on max salaries with Marcus Smart making $13M annually. The kicker is that they have Jayson Tatum ready and more than deserving of starting and Horford is the glue that holds everything together, which makes Hayward the odd man out to me.

There's not a chance in hell they trade Hayward. They'd lose all credibility with agents AND Brad Stevens if they did that. Hayward would have to essentially prove that despite being close to Brad Stevens, he doesn't fit in any way whatsoever with the team.

Boston would pay those taxes

[Lipoli390]

"
Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler could be among the star-studded NBA free agent class of 2019, and a Bulls Insider says a "very accomplished" player is plotting to join them wherever they end up.

On the Bulls Talk Podcast, Mark Schanowski discussed 2019 before Vincent Goodwill interjected.

It was then that Goodwill jumped in...

"There's a third guy that I can't mention, but yeah," Goodwill said about another 2019 free agent joining Irving and Butler. "I can't tell you (who) but I can tell you it's a very accomplished NBA player. Very accomplished."

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/nba-insider-very-accomplished-third-player-plotting-to-join-kyrie-irving--jimmy-butler-in-2019/286433956

I really hope thibs' attachment to Jimmy isn't blinding him.

Good luck finding a team that has the cap space, matching contracts, and/or trade assets to acquire both Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler as well as this mystery player, if there even is a third name. The one name that I'd imagine might be linked to those two is DeAndre Jordan, but I mean, how "accomplished" is he? Is he a guy you'd say "very accomplished" twice about? I don't know about that. Is Klay Thompson going to leave Golden State? I can't see it, honestly. He has a good thing going there with the whole "best two-way player" label some ridiculously place on him and the argument that he's a superstar in a role player's capacity. Carmelo Anthony is pretty accomplished individually, but nobody really cares about him anymore.

I think this is more talk then it will be action -- very much like how Paul George and Kawhi Leonard would join LeBron James in Los Angeles this summer. The big domino fell... and the other two fell through. We're a very long ways away from any more super team construction.

One differenceis that butler and irving are actually close friends on and off the court.

Nets and the knicks can make room for 2 max, but not a third. So i think that third accomplished by is someone who would take less and are close to both irving and butler. Imo, wade or melo. Dj is the obvious choice, but no way he takes a massive pay cut.

I'm aware of the friendship shared by Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler. But if there isn't a place that can realistically find the room to acquire both of them then it's a talking point only. I honestly don't see the Knicks being able to clear the cap necessary to sign both of them and re-sign Porzingis to the max. That's a lot of cap maneuvering that they just don't have the assets and savvy to pull off. And Brooklyn -- while I love what they're doing as well as the management they have in place -- just doesn't have enough of a supporting cast to be a plug and play environment for two stars who want to contend.

I think out of all of these scenarios, the one that's more likely than any of them is the Wolves trade Butler to Boston -- after firing Thibodeau, which is looking more and more likely. I'd go for a deal structured around Butler, Taj Gibson, and a top-20 protected first-round pick to the Celtics for Gordon Hayward and Jaylen Brown. Hayward would have to be thrown in for the simple reason that I can't imagine a scenario where Boston re-signs Irving and Butler to max contracts while keeping both Al Horford and Hayward on max salaries with Marcus Smart making $13M annually. The kicker is that they have Jayson Tatum ready and more than deserving of starting and Horford is the glue that holds everything together, which makes Hayward the odd man out to me.

There's not a chance in hell they trade Hayward. They'd lose all credibility with agents AND Brad Stevens if they did that. Hayward would have to essentially prove that despite being close to Brad Stevens, he doesn't fit in any way whatsoever with the team.

Boston would pay those taxes

Danny Ainge will do whatever he thinks will help the team win. He traded fan-favorite Isaiah Thomas when Thomas was damaged goods. It seems pretty obvious he'd trade Hayward if he thought it would improve the team. He won't lose credibility with agents. There isn't an agent around who'd be surprised by Ainge dealing Hayward if the deal looks like it could improve the Celtics. Whether the Celtics would trade Hayward next summer as part of a sign-and-trade will depend mainly on how well Hayward plays this upcoming season (or if he plays at all). It may also depends on Butler's health and whether he's already experiencing chronic knee problems a la Brandon Roy.

The time to deal Butler to Boston is this summer. But that won't happen as long as Thibodeau is still here.

If it were up to me, we'd trade Butler this summer. Right now, the deal I think the Celtics would take would be Butler and Taj for Hayward and the Kings top 1 protected pick (likely somewhere in the 2-7) or Hayward and Jaylen Brown. I think the Wolves might also be able to get Boston's own first round pick (lottery protected) as part of the deal (likely 28-30 range) and I would definitely try to include Gorgui rather than Taj in the deal.

Why would the Celtics do this deal? Because (1) they'd get more certainty given that Butler isn't coming off a potentially career-ending injury while Hayward is; (2) Butler would be an upgrade over Hayward if both are healthy; and (3) getting Butler increases Boston's chances of re-signing Kyrie next summer.

Why should the Wolves offer this deal? Because (1) Butler's attitude seems toxic and, even if not or even if its fixable, Butler will likely leave next summer as a free agent, and (2) the deal would give the Wolves valuable assets to help retool around KAT (and maybe Wiggins). If Hayward comes back completely healthy with no loss in his game, then the Wolves could still complete for a playoff spots, depending on the development of KAT, Wiggins, Tyus, Okogie and KBD. The most likely result of this trade for the Wolves would be a solid but overpriced player in Hayward who can still play, missing the playoffs and getting some nice draft assets next season, which would leave the Wolves with the following draft picks next summer: (1) Kings lottery pick in 2-7 range, (2) Wolves own lottery pick likely in 10-14 range, (3) Celtics first round pick (likely in 28-30 range), and (4) Miami's 2nd round pick (likely in 38-42 range).

[KG4Ever]

I don't think the IT situation is comparable. Brad Stevens has a long time relationship with Hayward and had to fight Utah to get him to sign. Who knows what assurances or promises were made to Hayward to get him to sign. Plus, given the injury Hayward endured, I really don't think they want to deal with any bad PR. Hayward stays in Boston. Boston probably wants to keep both Tatum and Brown as their salaries are very attractive. If Boston wants a deal it will have to fork over Brown or the Sacremento pick and I'm sure we'd ask for both.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I don't think the IT situation is comparable. Brad Stevens has a long time relationship with Hayward and had to fight Utah to get him to sign. Who knows what assurances or promises were made to Hayward to get him to sign. Plus, given the injury Hayward endured, I really don't think they want to deal with any bad PR. Hayward stays in Boston. Boston probably wants to keep both Tatum and Brown as their salaries are very attractive. If Boston wants a deal it will have to fork over Brown or the Sacremento pick and I'm sure we'd ask for both.

Assurances and promises went out the window as soon as he got injured and a better, elite player in the league became available. Everyone knows business is business and people move on. Additionally, Danny Ainge doesn't care about potentially bad PR. He is the ultimate move maker -- no emotions whatsoever, which is probably how it should be. Ainge traded Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett out of Boston in order to rob Brooklyn of those picks. That move couldn't have been easy from a moral standpoint. Then just a year ago Ainge dealt Isaiah Thomas after a career year in which Thomas led the team to the Eastern Conference Final and was rehabbing from a severe hip injury. Oh, not to mention Thomas' sister died in a car accident during the playoffs and he played the day after. Ainge was brutal in his decision making there. If there's a move that can make the Celtics better, I have no doubt that Ainge is the guy that will make it regardless of morality and PR. Adding Jimmy Butler makes them a no-shit, serious contender to take down the Warriors.

And Brown's salary is attractive now, but he'll be a restricted free agent after next season. That decision is coming soon. They could give Brown the likely $20M+ annually that he'll command and hope he'll be better than Butler down the road or they could flip him before he gets a payday and get an in-his-prime talent and make a real run at a championship. The latter seems like something Ainge would do.

PS: My proposal of Butler, Gibson, and a first-round pick for Hayward and Brown is a pretty good deal for the Wolves all things considered.

[KG4Ever]

I don't think the IT situation is comparable. Brad Stevens has a long time relationship with Hayward and had to fight Utah to get him to sign. Who knows what assurances or promises were made to Hayward to get him to sign. Plus, given the injury Hayward endured, I really don't think they want to deal with any bad PR. Hayward stays in Boston. Boston probably wants to keep both Tatum and Brown as their salaries are very attractive. If Boston wants a deal it will have to fork over Brown or the Sacremento pick and I'm sure we'd ask for both.

Assurances and promises went out the window as soon as he got injured and a better, elite player in the league became available. Everyone knows business is business and people move on. Additionally, Danny Ainge doesn't care about potentially bad PR. He is the ultimate move maker -- no emotions whatsoever, which is probably how it should be. Ainge traded Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett out of Boston in order to rob Brooklyn of those picks. That move couldn't have been easy from a moral standpoint. Then just a year ago Ainge dealt Isaiah Thomas after a career year in which Thomas led the team to the Eastern Conference Final and was rehabbing from a severe hip injury. Oh, not to mention Thomas' sister died in a car accident during the playoffs and he played the day after. Ainge was brutal in his decision making there. If there's a move that can make the Celtics better, I have no doubt that Ainge is the guy that will make it regardless of morality and PR. Adding Jimmy Butler makes them a no-shit, serious contender to take down the Warriors.

And Brown's salary is attractive now, but he'll be a restricted free agent after next season. That decision is coming soon. They could give Brown the likely $20M+ annually that he'll command and hope he'll be better than Butler down the road or they could flip him before he gets a payday and get an in-his-prime talent and make a real run at a championship. The latter seems like something Ainge would do.

PS: My proposal of Butler, Gibson, and a first-round pick for Hayward and Brown is a pretty good deal for the Wolves all things considered.

Zero chance of that happening.

[WildWolf2813]

I don't think the IT situation is comparable. Brad Stevens has a long time relationship with Hayward and had to fight Utah to get him to sign. Who knows what assurances or promises were made to Hayward to get him to sign. Plus, given the injury Hayward endured, I really don't think they want to deal with any bad PR. Hayward stays in Boston. Boston probably wants to keep both Tatum and Brown as their salaries are very attractive. If Boston wants a deal it will have to fork over Brown or the Sacremento pick and I'm sure we'd ask for both.

Assurances and promises went out the window as soon as he got injured and a better, elite player in the league became available. Everyone knows business is business and people move on. Additionally, Danny Ainge doesn't care about potentially bad PR. He is the ultimate move maker -- no emotions whatsoever, which is probably how it should be. Ainge traded Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett out of Boston in order to rob Brooklyn of those picks. That move couldn't have been easy from a moral standpoint. Then just a year ago Ainge dealt Isaiah Thomas after a career year in which Thomas led the team to the Eastern Conference Final and was rehabbing from a severe hip injury. Oh, not to mention Thomas' sister died in a car accident during the playoffs and he played the day after. Ainge was brutal in his decision making there. If there's a move that can make the Celtics better, I have no doubt that Ainge is the guy that will make it regardless of morality and PR. Adding Jimmy Butler makes them a no-shit, serious contender to take down the Warriors.

And Brown's salary is attractive now, but he'll be a restricted free agent after next season. That decision is coming soon. They could give Brown the likely $20M+ annually that he'll command and hope he'll be better than Butler down the road or they could flip him before he gets a payday and get an in-his-prime talent and make a real run at a championship. The latter seems like something Ainge would do.

PS: My proposal of Butler, Gibson, and a first-round pick for Hayward and Brown is a pretty good deal for the Wolves all things considered.

He was there for five minutes and got hurt on a freak accident. You don't deal him for a rental unless you don't want agents to take you seriously.


The IT comparison makes no sense. He was on a favorable contract, but as beloved as he was, even if he was healthy he was never gonna get the money he was looking for. Had he done so, he would have looked like a fool. No amount of surgeries or deaths in the family were gonna get him any closer to that extension. Simply put, unless IT came way down off of what he wanted in a extension, he was never coming back.


The Hayward situation isn't about emotion. It's about your word and your intentions. That doesn't go up in smoke because of a freak injury. He was brought there to be one of those guys who could beat the Warriors, and with a healthy Hayward, Irving and now emerging Brown and Tatum, they can do that without Butler anyway. Besides, Ainge has something really good going with Brad Stevens. The last thing I'd wanna do is make him wonder whether he should remain in Boston.

[WildWolf2813]

"
Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler could be among the star-studded NBA free agent class of 2019, and a Bulls Insider says a "very accomplished" player is plotting to join them wherever they end up.

On the Bulls Talk Podcast, Mark Schanowski discussed 2019 before Vincent Goodwill interjected.

It was then that Goodwill jumped in...

"There's a third guy that I can't mention, but yeah," Goodwill said about another 2019 free agent joining Irving and Butler. "I can't tell you (who) but I can tell you it's a very accomplished NBA player. Very accomplished."

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/nba-insider-very-accomplished-third-player-plotting-to-join-kyrie-irving--jimmy-butler-in-2019/286433956

I really hope thibs' attachment to Jimmy isn't blinding him.

Good luck finding a team that has the cap space, matching contracts, and/or trade assets to acquire both Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler as well as this mystery player, if there even is a third name. The one name that I'd imagine might be linked to those two is DeAndre Jordan, but I mean, how "accomplished" is he? Is he a guy you'd say "very accomplished" twice about? I don't know about that. Is Klay Thompson going to leave Golden State? I can't see it, honestly. He has a good thing going there with the whole "best two-way player" label some ridiculously place on him and the argument that he's a superstar in a role player's capacity. Carmelo Anthony is pretty accomplished individually, but nobody really cares about him anymore.

I think this is more talk then it will be action -- very much like how Paul George and Kawhi Leonard would join LeBron James in Los Angeles this summer. The big domino fell... and the other two fell through. We're a very long ways away from any more super team construction.

One differenceis that butler and irving are actually close friends on and off the court.

Nets and the knicks can make room for 2 max, but not a third. So i think that third accomplished by is someone who would take less and are close to both irving and butler. Imo, wade or melo. Dj is the obvious choice, but no way he takes a massive pay cut.

I'm aware of the friendship shared by Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler. But if there isn't a place that can realistically find the room to acquire both of them then it's a talking point only. I honestly don't see the Knicks being able to clear the cap necessary to sign both of them and re-sign Porzingis to the max. That's a lot of cap maneuvering that they just don't have the assets and savvy to pull off. And Brooklyn -- while I love what they're doing as well as the management they have in place -- just doesn't have enough of a supporting cast to be a plug and play environment for two stars who want to contend.

I think out of all of these scenarios, the one that's more likely than any of them is the Wolves trade Butler to Boston -- after firing Thibodeau, which is looking more and more likely. I'd go for a deal structured around Butler, Taj Gibson, and a top-20 protected first-round pick to the Celtics for Gordon Hayward and Jaylen Brown. Hayward would have to be thrown in for the simple reason that I can't imagine a scenario where Boston re-signs Irving and Butler to max contracts while keeping both Al Horford and Hayward on max salaries with Marcus Smart making $13M annually. The kicker is that they have Jayson Tatum ready and more than deserving of starting and Horford is the glue that holds everything together, which makes Hayward the odd man out to me.

There's not a chance in hell they trade Hayward. They'd lose all credibility with agents AND Brad Stevens if they did that. Hayward would have to essentially prove that despite being close to Brad Stevens, he doesn't fit in any way whatsoever with the team.

Boston would pay those taxes

Danny Ainge will do whatever he thinks will help the team win. He traded fan-favorite Isaiah Thomas when Thomas was damaged goods. It seems pretty obvious he'd trade Hayward if he thought it would improve the team. He won't lose credibility with agents. There isn't an agent around who'd be surprised by Ainge dealing Hayward if the deal looks like it could improve the Celtics. Whether the Celtics would trade Hayward next summer as part of a sign-and-trade will depend mainly on how well Hayward plays this upcoming season (or if he plays at all). It may also depends on Butler's health and whether he's already experiencing chronic knee problems a la Brandon Roy.

The time to deal Butler to Boston is this summer. But that won't happen as long as Thibodeau is still here.

If it were up to me, we'd trade Butler this summer. Right now, the deal I think the Celtics would take would be Butler and Taj for Hayward and the Kings top 1 protected pick (likely somewhere in the 2-7) or Hayward and Jaylen Brown. I think the Wolves might also be able to get Boston's own first round pick (lottery protected) as part of the deal (likely 28-30 range) and I would definitely try to include Gorgui rather than Taj in the deal.

Why would the Celtics do this deal? Because (1) they'd get more certainty given that Butler isn't coming off a potentially career-ending injury while Hayward is; (2) Butler would be an upgrade over Hayward if both are healthy; and (3) getting Butler increases Boston's chances of re-signing Kyrie next summer.

Why should the Wolves offer this deal? Because (1) Butler's attitude seems toxic and, even if not or even if its fixable, Butler will likely leave next summer as a free agent, and (2) the deal would give the Wolves valuable assets to help retool around KAT (and maybe Wiggins). If Hayward comes back completely healthy with no loss in his game, then the Wolves could still complete for a playoff spots, depending on the development of KAT, Wiggins, Tyus, Okogie and KBD. The most likely result of this trade for the Wolves would be a solid but overpriced player in Hayward who can still play, missing the playoffs and getting some nice draft assets next season, which would leave the Wolves with the following draft picks next summer: (1) Kings lottery pick in 2-7 range, (2) Wolves own lottery pick likely in 10-14 range, (3) Celtics first round pick (likely in 28-30 range), and (4) Miami's 2nd round pick (likely in 38-42 range).

I said much of what I said in my previous post regarding this situation.

To add: Long story short, I'll just say Jimmy Butler is not a good enough player for the Celtics to make the kind of blockbuster deal to upset the apple cart. If you make that deal for anyone, you do it for an Anthony Davis, NOT Jimmy Butler, let alone Jimmy Butler without an extension. I'd have to make Jimmy and Kyrie sign 4 year extension upon making the trade and I still probably don't do it.

[WildWolf2813]

Thibs is not gonna be the guy who trades Jimmy. He and Layden have to be gone before that happens. Thibs didn't come here for a rebuild. Glen didn't hire him for a rebuild. If he makes a Butler trade where they don't improve immediately, Thibs is out the door anyway, and he might know that deep down. Why allow him to make a trade where we're saddled with crappy contracts or negative players? We're already stuck with Wiggins and Dieng. Why make the situation less attractive than it already is? Think about it, people. 2 years ago, this team coulda had the choice of nearly any coach they wanted. After this Thibs experiment is over, we're gonna be reduced to hoping Ryan Saunders is ready to be a head coach and that some agency can actually pick Glen Taylor a young GM who makes sense here.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

With wiggs getting the 5 year max last year and KAT most assuredly getting the 5 year max this year, can we even offer jimmy the 5 year 190 million dollar max? Other teams can offer 4/140. Id that the max we can offer for 4 years?

Do we even want to? That a lot of years for a guy that misses 20 games a year and relies on his physicality to dominate. Im not sure his body holds up any better than it does now.

[Monster]

To me the idea that we can get anything significant out of the Celtics for Butler beyond a straight Hayward swap seems optimistic. The Celtics adding Jalen Brown seems laughable to me and I'm surprised that smart posters here think that would even be considered. Butler is a better player than Hayward but Hayward fits what the Bulls want to do more and in a few months will lilely be less expensive than what they would have to pay for Butler. In addition they just signed Smart a guy that gives you a part of what you get with Butler to a contract that will pay him about a third of what Butler will probably get. I just don't see the reason why the Celtics deal for Butler.

How many times have we heard about various players wanting to play together and...it never happens. I gues Chris Paul and Melo might finally team up! Yessssssssss!!! It's not something to be dismissed that guys want to play together but it's also something that tends to be overreacted to IMHO.