longstrangetrip wrote:Some fair points, Abe, and why Taylor is very unlikely to get rid of Thibs now...and why you're going to have to put up with my vocal despair the rest of the season as Thibs continues to demonstrate the NBA definition of insanity. You're right, it would look funny from a distance for the very reason you state...this team is above .500 for the first time in a long time. But for a large portion of the season ticket holders, the firing would be a welcome relief...the grumbling gets louder every game I go to. Section 130 is a small sample size to be sure, but I can tell you they are largely vehemently dissatisfied with Thibs. Lip goes to more games than I do, so I'm curious about what the fans in his section are saying. At some point, Glen may decide what his frustrated season ticket base is thinking is more important than what the NBA community is thinking.
But I don't buy your point that it would be difficult to find a top-notch coach to hire. Thibs wanted the job because it was "the best young roster in the NBA". Who wouldn't want to be paid big $$$ to coach a team that is the best young roster plus Jimmy Butler? Sure, a coach would want to know why Glen fired Thibs after a year and a half (just like Glen must have asked Thibs why the Bulls fired him), and he could easily reply. "I asked him to use the bench that he had built so that we wouldn't blow so many big leads, and he refused. I asked him to design his offense so we weren't consistently at the bottom of the league in 3-point attempts, but he said he preferred to stay with his Long 2 ISO offense. We were clearly underperforming, and he wasn't willing to listen to management...just like he wouldn't in Chicago. The fans wanted a change, and so did I. Do you want $6 million a year for 3 years or not". Um, nobody is going to turn that down.
This is all theoretical anyway...Glen isn't going to make a mid-year move. But I think it would help this team.
Just saying that the narrative of the wolves blowing big leads is kind of bull shit. The wolves are 16-5 this year when leading going into the 4th. Also have the most wins in the NBA by 5 pts or less.
I get frustrated also sometimes but we off to 3rd best start in franchise history. We would be hosting a playoff series right now. In the end the game is about wins and losses. And well they are winning at a rate that has been non existent for 13 years.
What would make you happy if we would have beaten the suns and grizzlies. Now the are bad losses no doubt but even historically great teams lose to bad teams.
We have a record of 9-1 against teams that are currently between the 5-10 seed in the west. So we are beating our equals.
Just because we are not winning how you want to win dosen't me your way would have affected any of the results positively
kekgeek1 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:Some fair points, Abe, and why Taylor is very unlikely to get rid of Thibs now...and why you're going to have to put up with my vocal despair the rest of the season as Thibs continues to demonstrate the NBA definition of insanity. You're right, it would look funny from a distance for the very reason you state...this team is above .500 for the first time in a long time. But for a large portion of the season ticket holders, the firing would be a welcome relief...the grumbling gets louder every game I go to. Section 130 is a small sample size to be sure, but I can tell you they are largely vehemently dissatisfied with Thibs. Lip goes to more games than I do, so I'm curious about what the fans in his section are saying. At some point, Glen may decide what his frustrated season ticket base is thinking is more important than what the NBA community is thinking.
But I don't buy your point that it would be difficult to find a top-notch coach to hire. Thibs wanted the job because it was "the best young roster in the NBA". Who wouldn't want to be paid big $$$ to coach a team that is the best young roster plus Jimmy Butler? Sure, a coach would want to know why Glen fired Thibs after a year and a half (just like Glen must have asked Thibs why the Bulls fired him), and he could easily reply. "I asked him to use the bench that he had built so that we wouldn't blow so many big leads, and he refused. I asked him to design his offense so we weren't consistently at the bottom of the league in 3-point attempts, but he said he preferred to stay with his Long 2 ISO offense. We were clearly underperforming, and he wasn't willing to listen to management...just like he wouldn't in Chicago. The fans wanted a change, and so did I. Do you want $6 million a year for 3 years or not". Um, nobody is going to turn that down.
This is all theoretical anyway...Glen isn't going to make a mid-year move. But I think it would help this team.
Just saying that the narrative of the wolves blowing big leads is kind of bull shit. The wolves are 16-5 this year when leading going into the 4th. Also have the most wins in the NBA by 5 pts or less.
I get frustrated also sometimes but we off to 3rd best start in franchise history. We would be hosting a playoff series right now. In the end the game is about wins and losses. And well they are winning at a rate that has been non existent for 13 years.
What would make you happy if we would have beaten the suns and grizzlies. Now the are bad losses no doubt but even historically great teams lose to bad teams.
We have a record of 9-1 against teams that are currently between the 5-10 seed in the west. So we are beating our equals.
Just because we are not winning how you want to win dosen't me your way would have affected any of the results positively
Did you read the article I posted just above, kek. It's not just the narrative that we continue to blow 4th quarter leads...it's also that we are far and away the worst plus/minus 4th quarter team in the NBA. The 4th quarter is when the money is on the line...doesn't it tell you something that we are by far the worst team at crunch time? We were also terrible in the 4th last year, and some argued that it was because of the youth of our roster (I disagreed). So Thibs goes out and gets 4 veterans (Butler, Gibson, Teague and Crawford), and we are STILL the worst 4th quarter team in the league! What does that tell you? What's the one constant between last year's team and this year's? I'm still looking for a credible answer as to why we are so awful at the end of games other than Thibs' starter-killing rotations, and nobody has provided one. I'm still waiting...
Yes, I'm happy that we are happy we are 18-13, but many expected better given the addition of Butler and the easy schedule. But after a hot start, we are only 8-8 the past 16 while playing a cake schedule. I have a difficult time mustering much excitement about the last 16 games, especially when I attend games and see the negative body language on the court that Robson and others have also noticed. It's a team going in the wrong direction.
But I don't buy your point that it would be difficult to find a top-notch coach to hire. Thibs wanted the job because it was "the best young roster in the NBA". Who wouldn't want to be paid big $$$ to coach a team that is the best young roster plus Jimmy Butler?
I'm not gonna waver off that one... largely for the points I already made. There is a coaching community and the firing of Thibodeau would not play well with other coaches. I'm 100% convinced of this.
And I think we've officially reached the point where very few people believe the Wolves have the "best young roster in the NBA." That ship has sailed.
Imagine coaches looking at the roster and thinking... "So Thibs got fired despite having a winning record for the worst franchise in NBA history... while the young stars regressed or didn't buy in with their effort... you damn right I want that job! Why wouldn't I hitch my wagon to those exact guys?"
And...LST said theoretically in coaching interviews Glen would say why he fired Thibs was because he told him how to run his team basketball wise and he didn't so he fired him? Yeah that's gonna play well espcially when this is one of the worst franchises in basketball and Glen has been the owner for a lot of that time and somewhat recently has seriously explored selling the team.
Again who are these awesome coaches we are gonna get? You fire Thibs he is probably one of the top available options in terms of resume.
Thibs is such an outlier to normal NBA coaching standards, I think almost any coach would be "awesome" in comparison. If there really is nobody out there that would want the job (and I find that a preposterous concept), I would give the job to Ryan Saunders tomorrow. He's young, aggressive, and seems to have a good rapport with the players...they seem engaged when he talks to them during time outs. And the chance that he could be worse than Thibs at designing an offense around the 3-point shot and layups or playing his bench somewhere near the league average is remote. The game has passed Thibs by, and the players seem to know it...we need some new, young blood.
Did you read the article I posted just above, kek. It's not just the narrative that we continue to blow 4th quarter leads...it's also that we are far and away the worst plus/minus 4th quarter team in the NBA. The 4th quarter is when the money is on the line...doesn't it tell you something that we are by far the worst team at crunch time? We were also terrible in the 4th last year, and some argued that it was because of the youth of our roster (I disagreed). So Thibs goes out and gets 4 veterans (Butler, Gibson, Teague and Crawford), and we are STILL the worst 4th quarter team in the league! What does that tell you? What's the one constant between last year's team and this year's? I'm still looking for a credible answer as to why we are so awful at the end of games other than Thibs' starter-killing rotations, and nobody has provided one. I'm still waiting...
Yes, I'm happy that we are happy we are 18-13, but many expected better given the addition of Butler and the easy schedule. But after a hot start, we are only 8-8 the past 16 while playing a cake schedule. I have a difficult time mustering much excitement about the last 16 games, especially when I attend games and see the negative body language on the court that Robson and others have also noticed. It's a team going in the wrong direction.
This is an interesting one. Not to say Thibodeau is right or wrong about how he handles it... but it's been a problem for multiple Wolves teams over the past few years... including that 40-42 team led by Adelman that lost close game after close game after close game.
Just bad Timberwolves luck? Or, an organization ran poorly for years?
The numbers tell the tale and show, as LST pointed out, that the Wolves have the worst 4th quarter +/- in the League. There has to be a reason for that other than bad Timberwolves karma. Now that we have the vets Thibs wanted, we can't blame it on youth anymore. Is it tired legs resulting from an underutilized bench. I think that's a big part of it. Is it the lack of effective playcalling a player movement down the stretch? I think that's a part of it too.
The regular fans in my section are getting more and more vocal in expressing their disgust with the unbelievable lack of movement and creativity in the offense.
I don't have any ideas for replacing Thibs right now. And I actually believe the Wolves should wait until the end of the season before making a final decision on whether to fire him. But I am otherwise in near total agreement with LST in my assessment of Thibs as head coach. Maybe things will change as the season progresses. Maybe we'll start to see more ball-movement and less iso in the offense. Maybe we'll see the bench get more minutes so our starters have fresher legs in the 4th. I'm still hopeful, but not optimistic.
As Thibs pointed out to Jon K in the postgame Q&A after the Portland game, the 4th quarter stats in the last 10 games has been good. Every NBA season has it's ups and downs, but a fair assessment of our team should recognize the strides in the last 10 games.
You can hear Jon K talk about it in the beginning of his last podcast.
https://www.mnspn.com/jon-krawczynski-s-you-betcha-basket
We've been 11th in the league in 4th quarter net rating the last 10 games.
The shorter bench and the 4th quarter woes are not necessarily linked since we have played better in the 4th since the bench got shorter. Puzzling I know.
thedoper wrote:As Thibs pointed out to Jon K in the postgame Q&A after the Portland game, the 4th quarter stats in the last 10 games has been good. Every NBA season has it's ups and downs, but a fair assessment of our team should recognize the strides in the last 10 games.
You can hear Jon K talk about it in the beginning of his last podcast.
https://www.mnspn.com/jon-krawczynski-s-you-betcha-basket
We've been 11th in the league in 4th quarter net rating the last 10 games.
The shorter bench and the 4th quarter woes are not necessarily linked since we have played better in the 4th since the bench got shorter. Puzzling I know.
Thanks for bringing this up again. More fun stats...the last 10 games with these starters playing all these minutes they suck on offense in the 4th quarter right? Nope 3rd in the league in offensive efficiency in the 4th and if you want eFG% or TS% they are plenty good there also.
And now 19-13 after a big road win, while the Celtics and Rockets lose. And Utah loses by like 40 or something. How can the great Quin Snyder defend his rotations?
When half of your rotational players are new to the team I think some growing pains are to be expected. I hope to see a much more cohesive unit the second half of the season, until then win enough games to keep to keep a 3 or 4 seed within reach.
The minute distribution would be more bothersome if they were constantly pushing the ball up court. Since they seem to plod along it should make the minutes a lil easier to handle?
