Five games over .500...

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Lip-while I agree with you that Taylor is unlikely to fire Thibs right now, I have heard (both in the press and from insiders) that he is not happy with Thibs, so a mid-season move is not entirely out of the question. One thing I have learned about Thibs is that he is less flexible and prone to change than any coach I have ever observed, so what we are seeing now is what we can expect the remainder of his tenure here. It's not enough for me and I hate to see this roster being wasted, so I would move now if I were Glen.

Cam-you make some fair points. With respect to continuity, I was the one voice here that argued that it was entirely unfair to fire Sam Mitchell after only one season where he nearly doubled the win total and had the team playing at a .500 pace at the end of the season. Would this team have continued improving at a faster pace if Glen had kept Sam as continuity? Maybe. We will never know. But I would have certainly given him one more year after the success he had in his only season. But Sam's coaching style was not as out-of-step with the rest of the league as Thibs' is, so that's why I am much less patient with Thibs than I was with Sam.

Here is an interesting article from a guy that I think is an excellent Wolves analyst (as does Britt Robson). He has been generally positive about Thibs in the past, but like me, he seems to have totally lost faith in him. I would direct everyone's attention to the "Minutes" section where he provides some astonishing data about our 4th quarter ineptness. By any measure we are by far the worst 4th quarter team in the league, and that is completely unacceptable when you have a team with three very veteran starters. Last year we blamed our 4th quarter woes on our "youth", but there are teams in the league that are much younger than we are who perform much better than we do at the end of games. This in on Thibs...there is simply nowhere else to place the blame for this miserable statistic.

https://www.canishoopus.com/2017/12/19/16776460/tom-thibodeau-a-critical-review-nba-timberwolves-butler-crawford-towns-wiggins

[Monster]

The Wolves net rating in the 4th quarter the last 10 games is 11th in the NBA. Thibs pointed this out when Jon K recently asked him about the 4th quarter struggles.

[Monster]

I get the idea of you don't think Thibs is the right guy going forward the idea just to keep him around because of continuity. As LST pointed out that was at the base of the arguement for and against Sam. Let's look over at the Pacers. When the season started nobody was looking at Nate Mccmillian and saying he was the right guy. Nobody was like oh that guy is an offensive genius or anything. They trade their best player for what most people scoffed at in return and a bunch of guys and now have a top 10 offense with a guy in Dipo who is looking like he might even be a star. Statistically they are middle of the road which is probably pretty impressive considering they play some guys plenty of minutes that were not considered good defenders coming in. So maybe Nate is a good coach. Maybe everything all lined up for him and the team Dipo being this good helps but I think is pretty fair to give him some credit there. Maybe he ends up being the right guy there after all.

For all the posts about firing Thibs there has been on this board by my memory There has been like 1 post about who should replace him and that one post said Fizdale. I've continued to find that interesting.

[AbeVigodaLive]

So the Wolves haven't been above .500 since 2005. Haven't made the playoffs since 2004.

Is LST suggesting that the coach of the 18 - 13 Wolves (#4 seed) be fired mid-season?

I get it... you hate him... like really really really really really really really really hate him judging by an inordinate percentage of your posts over the past 16 months. But step back and imagine how that scenario plays seeking the next head coach.

1. Whether we agree or not... by almost all reports, Thibs is respected in the coaching community. He's considered to be smart and dedicated. And connected.
2. You don't think other prospective coaches are gonna worry a bit when a guy finally gets the ALL-TIME WORST NBA franchise to play competently... only to be fired unceremoniously mid-season after 110+ games on the job?
3. What respected coach would want to walk into that scenario and those seemingly unrealistic expectations? If anything, I can see the better prospects basically blackballing the Timberwolves organization.
4. And we could chalk it up to "we can't make this stuff up"... back to no .500 teams in 13 seasons... well, that's half-true. Remember, in 2007, the Timberwolves fired coach D. Casey because he was "under-performing" with a 20 - 20 record. Randy Wittman took over and they went 12 - 30 the rest of the way. And then 22 - 60. And then 4 - 15 before he was fired. Casey was the last guy to have a .500 record... only to get shitcanned for it.
5. I get a lot of the criticism about Thibodeau. I have many gripes as well. I think almost all of us do. But firing him is not in the cards right now UNLESS Towns and Butler march into Taylor's office demanding it claiming they won't resign here if he stays.

It's just bad PR to fire the guy right now. Not with the public... but the rest of the NBA. It's not an ideal situation, but it is what it is.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Some fair points, Abe, and why Taylor is very unlikely to get rid of Thibs now...and why you're going to have to put up with my vocal despair the rest of the season as Thibs continues to demonstrate the NBA definition of insanity. You're right, it would look funny from a distance for the very reason you state...this team is above .500 for the first time in a long time. But for a large portion of the season ticket holders, the firing would be a welcome relief...the grumbling gets louder every game I go to. Section 130 is a small sample size to be sure, but I can tell you they are largely vehemently dissatisfied with Thibs. Lip goes to more games than I do, so I'm curious about what the fans in his section are saying. At some point, Glen may decide what his frustrated season ticket base is thinking is more important than what the NBA community is thinking.

But I don't buy your point that it would be difficult to find a top-notch coach to hire. Thibs wanted the job because it was "the best young roster in the NBA". Who wouldn't want to be paid big $$$ to coach a team that is the best young roster plus Jimmy Butler? Sure, a coach would want to know why Glen fired Thibs after a year and a half (just like Glen must have asked Thibs why the Bulls fired him), and he could easily reply. "I asked him to use the bench that he had built so that we wouldn't blow so many big leads, and he refused. I asked him to design his offense so we weren't consistently at the bottom of the league in 3-point attempts, but he said he preferred to stay with his Long 2 ISO offense. We were clearly underperforming, and he wasn't willing to listen to management...just like he wouldn't in Chicago. The fans wanted a change, and so did I. Do you want $6 million a year for 3 years or not". Um, nobody is going to turn that down.

This is all theoretical anyway...Glen isn't going to make a mid-year move. But I think it would help this team.

[kekgeek]

Some fair points, Abe, and why Taylor is very unlikely to get rid of Thibs now...and why you're going to have to put up with my vocal despair the rest of the season as Thibs continues to demonstrate the NBA definition of insanity. You're right, it would look funny from a distance for the very reason you state...this team is above .500 for the first time in a long time. But for a large portion of the season ticket holders, the firing would be a welcome relief...the grumbling gets louder every game I go to. Section 130 is a small sample size to be sure, but I can tell you they are largely vehemently dissatisfied with Thibs. Lip goes to more games than I do, so I'm curious about what the fans in his section are saying. At some point, Glen may decide what his frustrated season ticket base is thinking is more important than what the NBA community is thinking.

But I don't buy your point that it would be difficult to find a top-notch coach to hire. Thibs wanted the job because it was "the best young roster in the NBA". Who wouldn't want to be paid big $$$ to coach a team that is the best young roster plus Jimmy Butler? Sure, a coach would want to know why Glen fired Thibs after a year and a half (just like Glen must have asked Thibs why the Bulls fired him), and he could easily reply. "I asked him to use the bench that he had built so that we wouldn't blow so many big leads, and he refused. I asked him to design his offense so we weren't consistently at the bottom of the league in 3-point attempts, but he said he preferred to stay with his Long 2 ISO offense. We were clearly underperforming, and he wasn't willing to listen to management...just like he wouldn't in Chicago. The fans wanted a change, and so did I. Do you want $6 million a year for 3 years or not". Um, nobody is going to turn that down.

This is all theoretical anyway...Glen isn't going to make a mid-year move. But I think it would help this team.

Just saying that the narrative of the wolves blowing big leads is kind of bull shit. The wolves are 16-5 this year when leading going into the 4th. Also have the most wins in the NBA by 5 pts or less.

I get frustrated also sometimes but we off to 3rd best start in franchise history. We would be hosting a playoff series right now. In the end the game is about wins and losses. And well they are winning at a rate that has been non existent for 13 years.

What would make you happy if we would have beaten the suns and grizzlies. Now the are bad losses no doubt but even historically great teams lose to bad teams.

We have a record of 9-1 against teams that are currently between the 5-10 seed in the west. So we are beating our equals.


Just because we are not winning how you want to win dosen't me your way would have affected any of the results positively

[AbeVigodaLive]

But I don't buy your point that it would be difficult to find a top-notch coach to hire. Thibs wanted the job because it was "the best young roster in the NBA". Who wouldn't want to be paid big $$$ to coach a team that is the best young roster plus Jimmy Butler?

I'm not gonna waver off that one... largely for the points I already made. There is a coaching community and the firing of Thibodeau would not play well with other coaches. I'm 100% convinced of this.

And I think we've officially reached the point where very few people believe the Wolves have the "best young roster in the NBA." That ship has sailed.

Imagine coaches looking at the roster and thinking... "So Thibs got fired despite having a winning record for the worst franchise in NBA history... while the young stars regressed or didn't buy in with their effort... you damn right I want that job! Why wouldn't I hitch my wagon to those exact guys?"

[Monster]

But I don't buy your point that it would be difficult to find a top-notch coach to hire. Thibs wanted the job because it was "the best young roster in the NBA". Who wouldn't want to be paid big $$$ to coach a team that is the best young roster plus Jimmy Butler?

I'm not gonna waver off that one... largely for the points I already made. There is a coaching community and the firing of Thibodeau would not play well with other coaches. I'm 100% convinced of this.

And I think we've officially reached the point where very few people believe the Wolves have the "best young roster in the NBA." That ship has sailed.

Imagine coaches looking at the roster and thinking... "So Thibs got fired despite having a winning record for the worst franchise in NBA history... while the young stars regressed or didn't buy in with their effort... you damn right I want that job! Why wouldn't I hitch my wagon to those exact guys?"

And...LST said theoretically in coaching interviews Glen would say why he fired Thibs was because he told him how to run his team basketball wise and he didn't so he fired him? Yeah that's gonna play well espcially when this is one of the worst franchises in basketball and Glen has been the owner for a lot of that time and somewhat recently has seriously explored selling the team.

Again who are these awesome coaches we are gonna get? You fire Thibs he is probably one of the top available options in terms of resume.

[thedoper]

Who is Glen Taylor to fire anybody at this point? Arguably the most incompetent owner in sports does not have a lot of firing or hiring options left. If Thibs got canned it's Ryan Saunders and who? The only person that would fire Thibs would be the new owner when Glen finally gets the team pried from his previously cyrogenically frozen hands.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Who is Glen Taylor to fire anybody at this point? Arguably the most incompetent owner in sports does not have a lot of firing or hiring options left. If Thibs got canned it's Ryan Saunders and who? The only person that would fire Thibs would be the new owner when Glen finally gets the team pried from his previously cyrogenically frozen hands.

There's definitely something here. Amid all the coaches. All the players. All the promise of hope campaigns. All the bad luck at the lotteries. All the 1st round exits.

There is one person there for it all. ONLY one person.

While we may be able to point to only one or two tangible examples of him being incompetent... something is amiss when the lack of success as NBA owner is only matched by a select few, including legendary laughable and contemptible owners like Donald Sterling and Ted Stepien.