lipoli390 wrote:We have KAT locked in for 5 more years after this season. That's enough time to retool around him. Okogie could pan out as an allstar caliber player. Saric has more upside in his game. Beyond that, the Wolves need to make the most of each of the next few drafts. The focus should be on picking up one or two more first round picks and maybe a relatively high second round pick in exchange for one or more of our vets, including Teague, Rose, Taj, Tolliver and/or Wiggins. If we could get a first round pick for Rubio, we should be able to parley one of more of the aforementioned players into one or two first round picks. I don't want to trade RoCo, but his abilities and team-friendly contract might be a key to landing a young talent or relatively high first round pick in the trade market. The more picks, the better the chances of hitting paydirt on at least one of them.
The contract with KAT is 5 but we have 4 years to rebuild as the final year in free agency is a wash if we're still trying to rebuild. How is KAT going to feel about the assets around him moving backwards too for draft picks? We're basically in the same place we we're with KG post 2004 only KAT isn't as good as KG. Once KAT is gone this team doesn't survive another rebuild. The only other potential way out of this thing is to draft well, get a new dynamic coach and become a bunch of overachievers like Utah. I can't really see Taylor hiring anyone dynamic, that to me would be the biggest miracle of any scenario.
Drafting well and hiring a good head coach are the keys. It doesn't have to be aa dynamic coach; just a very good one. Drafting well will be the most important variable. That's why it's important to get as many 1st round picks as possible, using our vets to acquire one or two more.
We're actually much better off than we were with KG post 2004. KG's supporting cast at the time wasn't as good. Cassell and Spree were old and had checked out. Beyond those two, there weren't any other consequential players or young upside players around KG. In contrast, KAT has Covington as a very good player early in his prime. He also Saric, Okogie, and Tyus Jones as young players with good to very good upside. He also has Rose, Teague and Tolliver who are all good players with value as teammates or as trade assets. Finally, KAT has Wiggins. He's grossly overpriced, but he can put up 20 points a game and he's become a pretty good defender with potential to become a really good defender. Moreover, Wiggins might have trade value to a team or two. Finally, KAT just turned 23 years old. In 2005, KG was nearly 30.
lipoli390 wrote:We have KAT locked in for 5 more years after this season. That's enough time to retool around him. Okogie could pan out as an allstar caliber player. Saric has more upside in his game. Beyond that, the Wolves need to make the most of each of the next few drafts. The focus should be on picking up one or two more first round picks and maybe a relatively high second round pick in exchange for one or more of our vets, including Teague, Rose, Taj, Tolliver and/or Wiggins. If we could get a first round pick for Rubio, we should be able to parley one of more of the aforementioned players into one or two first round picks. I don't want to trade RoCo, but his abilities and team-friendly contract might be a key to landing a young talent or relatively high first round pick in the trade market. The more picks, the better the chances of hitting paydirt on at least one of them.
The contract with KAT is 5 but we have 4 years to rebuild as the final year in free agency is a wash if we're still trying to rebuild. How is KAT going to feel about the assets around him moving backwards too for draft picks? We're basically in the same place we we're with KG post 2004 only KAT isn't as good as KG. Once KAT is gone this team doesn't survive another rebuild. The only other potential way out of this thing is to draft well, get a new dynamic coach and become a bunch of overachievers like Utah. I can't really see Taylor hiring anyone dynamic, that to me would be the biggest miracle of any scenario.
The Wolves should have one eye on the Anthony Davis situation... IF he requests a trade... the Wolves may not even have four years left to rebuild.
lipoli390 wrote:We have KAT locked in for 5 more years after this season. That's enough time to retool around him. Okogie could pan out as an allstar caliber player. Saric has more upside in his game. Beyond that, the Wolves need to make the most of each of the next few drafts. The focus should be on picking up one or two more first round picks and maybe a relatively high second round pick in exchange for one or more of our vets, including Teague, Rose, Taj, Tolliver and/or Wiggins. If we could get a first round pick for Rubio, we should be able to parley one of more of the aforementioned players into one or two first round picks. I don't want to trade RoCo, but his abilities and team-friendly contract might be a key to landing a young talent or relatively high first round pick in the trade market. The more picks, the better the chances of hitting paydirt on at least one of them.
The contract with KAT is 5 but we have 4 years to rebuild as the final year in free agency is a wash if we're still trying to rebuild. How is KAT going to feel about the assets around him moving backwards too for draft picks? We're basically in the same place we we're with KG post 2004 only KAT isn't as good as KG. Once KAT is gone this team doesn't survive another rebuild. The only other potential way out of this thing is to draft well, get a new dynamic coach and become a bunch of overachievers like Utah. I can't really see Taylor hiring anyone dynamic, that to me would be the biggest miracle of any scenario.
Drafting well and hiring a good head coach are the keys. It doesn't have to be aa dynamic coach; just a very good one. Drafting well will be the most important variable. That's why it's important to get as many 1st round picks as possible, using our vets to acquire one or two more.
We're actually much better off than we were with KG post 2004. KG's supporting cast at the time wasn't as good. Cassell and Spree were old and had checked out. Beyond those two, there weren't any other consequential players or young upside players around KG. In contrast, KAT has Covington as a very good player early in his prime. He also Saric, Okogie, and Tyus Jones as young players with good to very good upside. He also has Rose, Teague and Tolliver who are all good players with value as teammates or as trade assets. Finally, KAT has Wiggins. He's grossly overpriced, but he can put up 20 points a game and he's become a pretty good defender with potential to become a really good defender. Moreover, Wiggins might have trade value to a team or two. Finally, KAT just turned 23 years old. In 2005, KG was nearly 30.
Everything moves faster now. KAT is 23 but that only makes it more likely he leaves early to me. The factors (surrounding players/assets) are different KG to KAT, but the pressure is the same. That is my point. Players want it all right away in the NBA now. Expecting KAT to be loyal to this franchise through a rebuild is would be a challenge. You're right about coaching and drafting, but again expecting Taylor to make those decisions well would be a pipe dream. He's not going to spend more to properly fill both the GM and coach position. Instead we're going to get some compromise.
I like your optimism though, there's a path to get there, I just see the alternative as a greater possibility. I still think Wiggs has value on the court, I like the elements of this roster fine. I just wish Thibs would move upstairs and let a coach come in who connects to players. That would be the best thing that could happen to this franchise right now, but Thibs seems so prideful that I doubt that's going to happen. Instead he's going to run this team into the ground and force Glen to make a bunch of bad decisions.
lipoli390 wrote:We have KAT locked in for 5 more years after this season. That's enough time to retool around him. Okogie could pan out as an allstar caliber player. Saric has more upside in his game. Beyond that, the Wolves need to make the most of each of the next few drafts. The focus should be on picking up one or two more first round picks and maybe a relatively high second round pick in exchange for one or more of our vets, including Teague, Rose, Taj, Tolliver and/or Wiggins. If we could get a first round pick for Rubio, we should be able to parley one of more of the aforementioned players into one or two first round picks. I don't want to trade RoCo, but his abilities and team-friendly contract might be a key to landing a young talent or relatively high first round pick in the trade market. The more picks, the better the chances of hitting paydirt on at least one of them.
The contract with KAT is 5 but we have 4 years to rebuild as the final year in free agency is a wash if we're still trying to rebuild. How is KAT going to feel about the assets around him moving backwards too for draft picks? We're basically in the same place we we're with KG post 2004 only KAT isn't as good as KG. Once KAT is gone this team doesn't survive another rebuild. The only other potential way out of this thing is to draft well, get a new dynamic coach and become a bunch of overachievers like Utah. I can't really see Taylor hiring anyone dynamic, that to me would be the biggest miracle of any scenario.
Drafting well and hiring a good head coach are the keys. It doesn't have to be aa dynamic coach; just a very good one. Drafting well will be the most important variable. That's why it's important to get as many 1st round picks as possible, using our vets to acquire one or two more.
We're actually much better off than we were with KG post 2004. KG's supporting cast at the time wasn't as good. Cassell and Spree were old and had checked out. Beyond those two, there weren't any other consequential players or young upside players around KG. In contrast, KAT has Covington as a very good player early in his prime. He also Saric, Okogie, and Tyus Jones as young players with good to very good upside. He also has Rose, Teague and Tolliver who are all good players with value as teammates or as trade assets. Finally, KAT has Wiggins. He's grossly overpriced, but he can put up 20 points a game and he's become a pretty good defender with potential to become a really good defender. Moreover, Wiggins might have trade value to a team or two. Finally, KAT just turned 23 years old. In 2005, KG was nearly 30.
Everything moves faster now. KAT is 23 but that only makes it more likely he leaves early to me. The factors (surrounding players/assets) are different KG to KAT, but the pressure is the same. That is my point. Players want it all right away in the NBA now. Expecting KAT to be loyal to this franchise through a rebuild is would be a challenge. You're right about coaching and drafting, but again expecting Taylor to make those decisions well would be a pipe dream. He's not going to spend more to properly fill both the GM and coach position. Instead we're going to get some compromise.
I like your optimism though, there's a path to get there, I just see the alternative as a greater possibility. I still think Wiggs has value on the court, I like the elements of this roster fine. I just wish Thibs would move upstairs and let a coach come in who connects to players. That would be the best thing that could happen to this franchise right now, but Thibs seems so prideful that I doubt that's going to happen. Instead he's going to run this team into the ground and force Glen to make a bunch of bad decisions.
Doper, I share your fear. But Glen isn't stingy so I can see him spending to hire a new PBO AND a new coach even if it means paying a high price. Glen's problem is poor judgment, not an unwillingness to spend. So I guess we come out in the same place in having doubts about Taylor making good hiring decisions for the head coach position. But I'm not as pessimistic as you about Glen hiring a good coach who connects with players and implements a style that works in today's NBA.
I agree that Wiggins still has value on the court if used more intelligently. And we both agree we have some good players and assets around KAT. I can certainly see KAT wanting out at some point if things don't turn around. But he's really invested psychologically on winning here. He sees this as his team and wants to be the guy who turns this franchise around. In that sense he's very different from guys like Anthony Davis. So the Wolves have time along with assets to get this thing on track. And it's not like we're starting from the bottom. Right now we're a .500 team - actually better than .500 since Butler's departure. Improvement from Okogie, Saric, Tyus and KAT alone over the next couple seasons will improve the team's record. I wouldn't bet the farm on the Wolves becoming a contender over the next few seasons. But I'll leave the pessimism to Abe. :)
lipoli390 wrote:We have KAT locked in for 5 more years after this season. That's enough time to retool around him. Okogie could pan out as an allstar caliber player. Saric has more upside in his game. Beyond that, the Wolves need to make the most of each of the next few drafts. The focus should be on picking up one or two more first round picks and maybe a relatively high second round pick in exchange for one or more of our vets, including Teague, Rose, Taj, Tolliver and/or Wiggins. If we could get a first round pick for Rubio, we should be able to parley one of more of the aforementioned players into one or two first round picks. I don't want to trade RoCo, but his abilities and team-friendly contract might be a key to landing a young talent or relatively high first round pick in the trade market. The more picks, the better the chances of hitting paydirt on at least one of them.
The contract with KAT is 5 but we have 4 years to rebuild as the final year in free agency is a wash if we're still trying to rebuild. How is KAT going to feel about the assets around him moving backwards too for draft picks? We're basically in the same place we we're with KG post 2004 only KAT isn't as good as KG. Once KAT is gone this team doesn't survive another rebuild. The only other potential way out of this thing is to draft well, get a new dynamic coach and become a bunch of overachievers like Utah. I can't really see Taylor hiring anyone dynamic, that to me would be the biggest miracle of any scenario.
Drafting well and hiring a good head coach are the keys. It doesn't have to be aa dynamic coach; just a very good one. Drafting well will be the most important variable. That's why it's important to get as many 1st round picks as possible, using our vets to acquire one or two more.
We're actually much better off than we were with KG post 2004. KG's supporting cast at the time wasn't as good. Cassell and Spree were old and had checked out. Beyond those two, there weren't any other consequential players or young upside players around KG. In contrast, KAT has Covington as a very good player early in his prime. He also Saric, Okogie, and Tyus Jones as young players with good to very good upside. He also has Rose, Teague and Tolliver who are all good players with value as teammates or as trade assets. Finally, KAT has Wiggins. He's grossly overpriced, but he can put up 20 points a game and he's become a pretty good defender with potential to become a really good defender. Moreover, Wiggins might have trade value to a team or two. Finally, KAT just turned 23 years old. In 2005, KG was nearly 30.
I agree that Wiggins still has value on the court if used more intelligently. And we both agree we have some good players and assets around KAT. I can certainly see KAT wanting out at some point if things don't turn around. But he's really invested psychologically on winning here. He sees this as his team and wants to be the guy who turns this franchise around. [highlight=#ddd123]In that sense he's very different from guys like Anthony Davis.[/highlight] So the Wolves have time along with assets to get this thing on track. And it's not like we're starting from the bottom. Right now we're a .500 team - actually better than .500 since Butler's departure. Improvement from Okogie, Saric, Tyus and KAT alone over the next couple seasons will improve the team's record. I wouldn't bet the farm on the Wolves becoming a contender over the next few seasons. But I'll leave the pessimism to Abe. :)
The idea we could get AD seems like a pipe dream. I think he would have to say he wants to be here and nowhere else which also seems quite unlikely. I think the Lakers could offer more in a deal than us and obviously the Celtics have plenty to offer. If the Wolves can just draft and add some worthwhile players they could be able to add the next guy wanting out or made available. You don't always have to knock draft picks out of the park to get you a star from them.
I think there should be some real optimism around this team having the talent and somebody players on it that it's worthy of actually being a fan of and winning some games making the playoffs etc. for the next few years we may be able to watch guys like Saric Covington player hard and be pretty smart basketball players. Towns is going to be terrific. Okogie is gonna be entertaining. There is some talent here and we should be able to win some games and no be embarking most nights. Championship? Something big has to happen but I'd take a Grizz type run for a few years. I think a lot of us thought we could do more. I think we had some legit reasons to aspire to that. It could still happen but I'm not sure based on the guys we had we would have got there. I think if we do end up being Memphis Or Portland type of team that can be fun. I'm not saying settle for mediocrity but a legit winning franchise for the next 5+ years wouldn't be horrible regardless of who is in charge and coaching.
lipoli390 wrote:We have KAT locked in for 5 more years after this season. That's enough time to retool around him. Okogie could pan out as an allstar caliber player. Saric has more upside in his game. Beyond that, the Wolves need to make the most of each of the next few drafts. The focus should be on picking up one or two more first round picks and maybe a relatively high second round pick in exchange for one or more of our vets, including Teague, Rose, Taj, Tolliver and/or Wiggins. If we could get a first round pick for Rubio, we should be able to parley one of more of the aforementioned players into one or two first round picks. I don't want to trade RoCo, but his abilities and team-friendly contract might be a key to landing a young talent or relatively high first round pick in the trade market. The more picks, the better the chances of hitting paydirt on at least one of them.
The contract with KAT is 5 but we have 4 years to rebuild as the final year in free agency is a wash if we're still trying to rebuild. How is KAT going to feel about the assets around him moving backwards too for draft picks? We're basically in the same place we we're with KG post 2004 only KAT isn't as good as KG. Once KAT is gone this team doesn't survive another rebuild. The only other potential way out of this thing is to draft well, get a new dynamic coach and become a bunch of overachievers like Utah. I can't really see Taylor hiring anyone dynamic, that to me would be the biggest miracle of any scenario.
Drafting well and hiring a good head coach are the keys. It doesn't have to be aa dynamic coach; just a very good one. Drafting well will be the most important variable. That's why it's important to get as many 1st round picks as possible, using our vets to acquire one or two more.
We're actually much better off than we were with KG post 2004. KG's supporting cast at the time wasn't as good. Cassell and Spree were old and had checked out. Beyond those two, there weren't any other consequential players or young upside players around KG. In contrast, KAT has Covington as a very good player early in his prime. He also Saric, Okogie, and Tyus Jones as young players with good to very good upside. He also has Rose, Teague and Tolliver who are all good players with value as teammates or as trade assets. Finally, KAT has Wiggins. He's grossly overpriced, but he can put up 20 points a game and he's become a pretty good defender with potential to become a really good defender. Moreover, Wiggins might have trade value to a team or two. Finally, KAT just turned 23 years old. In 2005, KG was nearly 30.
Everything moves faster now. KAT is 23 but that only makes it more likely he leaves early to me. The factors (surrounding players/assets) are different KG to KAT, but the pressure is the same. That is my point. Players want it all right away in the NBA now. Expecting KAT to be loyal to this franchise through a rebuild is would be a challenge. You're right about coaching and drafting, but again expecting Taylor to make those decisions well would be a pipe dream. He's not going to spend more to properly fill both the GM and coach position. Instead we're going to get some compromise.
I like your optimism though, there's a path to get there, I just see the alternative as a greater possibility. I still think Wiggs has value on the court, I like the elements of this roster fine. I just wish Thibs would move upstairs and let a coach come in who connects to players. That would be the best thing that could happen to this franchise right now, but Thibs seems so prideful that I doubt that's going to happen. Instead he's going to run this team into the ground and force Glen to make a bunch of bad decisions.
Doper, I share your fear. But Glen isn't stingy so I can see him spending to hire a new PBO AND a new coach even if it means paying a high price. Glen's problem is poor judgment, not an unwillingness to spend. So I guess we come out in the same place in having doubts about Taylor making good hiring decisions for the head coach position. But I'm not as pessimistic as you about Glen hiring a good coach who connects with players and implements a style that works in today's NBA.
I agree that Wiggins still has value on the court if used more intelligently. And we both agree we have some good players and assets around KAT. I can certainly see KAT wanting out at some point if things don't turn around. But he's really invested psychologically on winning here. He sees this as his team and wants to be the guy who turns this franchise around. In that sense he's very different from guys like Anthony Davis. So the Wolves have time along with assets to get this thing on track. And it's not like we're starting from the bottom. Right now we're a .500 team - actually better than .500 since Butler's departure. Improvement from Okogie, Saric, Tyus and KAT alone over the next couple seasons will improve the team's record. I wouldn't bet the farm on the Wolves becoming a contender over the next few seasons. But I'll leave the pessimism to Abe. :)
I still scratch my head when people say Glen isn't stingy. We can just disagree on that one. He was a huge proponent of the salary cap after giving KG his deal (which coincidentally screwed us as much as the missing draft picks in the early KG years) called the one time he paid the luxury tax a huge mistake, did nothing for the franchise for 15 years after KG left except letting the team and facilities rot, and he was the main negotiator and proponent of the player's reduction in the share of revenue. He waited to improve Target Center and build the practice facility until the owners had record revenues. His most recent hire was the first high profile hire he made and hired that person to do two jobs. If his motivation was idiocy instead of stinginess it's hard to tell the difference from the outside. I guarantee that once Thibs leaves Glen will have some crazy interview that says that he hired someone high profile and it didn't work, and then we will get Ryan Saunders coaching and Sidney Lowe as our GM. I'll be so happy to be proven wrong and have Glen spend real dough on a new GM and a new coach, but I just don't see Glen admitting that he made that big of a mistake with his actions or his pocketbook.
lipoli390 wrote:We have KAT locked in for 5 more years after this season. That's enough time to retool around him. Okogie could pan out as an allstar caliber player. Saric has more upside in his game. Beyond that, the Wolves need to make the most of each of the next few drafts. The focus should be on picking up one or two more first round picks and maybe a relatively high second round pick in exchange for one or more of our vets, including Teague, Rose, Taj, Tolliver and/or Wiggins. If we could get a first round pick for Rubio, we should be able to parley one of more of the aforementioned players into one or two first round picks. I don't want to trade RoCo, but his abilities and team-friendly contract might be a key to landing a young talent or relatively high first round pick in the trade market. The more picks, the better the chances of hitting paydirt on at least one of them.
The contract with KAT is 5 but we have 4 years to rebuild as the final year in free agency is a wash if we're still trying to rebuild. How is KAT going to feel about the assets around him moving backwards too for draft picks? We're basically in the same place we we're with KG post 2004 only KAT isn't as good as KG. Once KAT is gone this team doesn't survive another rebuild. The only other potential way out of this thing is to draft well, get a new dynamic coach and become a bunch of overachievers like Utah. I can't really see Taylor hiring anyone dynamic, that to me would be the biggest miracle of any scenario.
Drafting well and hiring a good head coach are the keys. It doesn't have to be aa dynamic coach; just a very good one. Drafting well will be the most important variable. That's why it's important to get as many 1st round picks as possible, using our vets to acquire one or two more.
We're actually much better off than we were with KG post 2004. KG's supporting cast at the time wasn't as good. Cassell and Spree were old and had checked out. Beyond those two, there weren't any other consequential players or young upside players around KG. In contrast, KAT has Covington as a very good player early in his prime. He also Saric, Okogie, and Tyus Jones as young players with good to very good upside. He also has Rose, Teague and Tolliver who are all good players with value as teammates or as trade assets. Finally, KAT has Wiggins. He's grossly overpriced, but he can put up 20 points a game and he's become a pretty good defender with potential to become a really good defender. Moreover, Wiggins might have trade value to a team or two. Finally, KAT just turned 23 years old. In 2005, KG was nearly 30.
Everything moves faster now. KAT is 23 but that only makes it more likely he leaves early to me. The factors (surrounding players/assets) are different KG to KAT, but the pressure is the same. That is my point. Players want it all right away in the NBA now. Expecting KAT to be loyal to this franchise through a rebuild is would be a challenge. You're right about coaching and drafting, but again expecting Taylor to make those decisions well would be a pipe dream. He's not going to spend more to properly fill both the GM and coach position. Instead we're going to get some compromise.
I like your optimism though, there's a path to get there, I just see the alternative as a greater possibility. I still think Wiggs has value on the court, I like the elements of this roster fine. I just wish Thibs would move upstairs and let a coach come in who connects to players. That would be the best thing that could happen to this franchise right now, but Thibs seems so prideful that I doubt that's going to happen. Instead he's going to run this team into the ground and force Glen to make a bunch of bad decisions.
Doper, I share your fear. But Glen isn't stingy so I can see him spending to hire a new PBO AND a new coach even if it means paying a high price. Glen's problem is poor judgment, not an unwillingness to spend. So I guess we come out in the same place in having doubts about Taylor making good hiring decisions for the head coach position. But I'm not as pessimistic as you about Glen hiring a good coach who connects with players and implements a style that works in today's NBA.
I agree that Wiggins still has value on the court if used more intelligently. And we both agree we have some good players and assets around KAT. I can certainly see KAT wanting out at some point if things don't turn around. But he's really invested psychologically on winning here. He sees this as his team and wants to be the guy who turns this franchise around. In that sense he's very different from guys like Anthony Davis. So the Wolves have time along with assets to get this thing on track. And it's not like we're starting from the bottom. Right now we're a .500 team - actually better than .500 since Butler's departure. Improvement from Okogie, Saric, Tyus and KAT alone over the next couple seasons will improve the team's record. I wouldn't bet the farm on the Wolves becoming a contender over the next few seasons. But I'll leave the pessimism to Abe. :)
I still scratch my head when people say Glen isn't stingy. We can just disagree on that one. He was a huge proponent of the salary cap after giving KG his deal (which coincidentally screwed us as much as the missing draft picks in the early KG years) called the one time he paid the luxury tax a huge mistake, did nothing for the franchise for 15 years after KG left except letting the team and facilities rot, and he was the main negotiator and proponent of the player's reduction in the share of revenue. He waited to improve Target Center and build the practice facility until the owners had record revenues. His most recent hire was the first high profile hire he made and hired that person to do two jobs. If his motivation was idiocy instead of stinginess it's hard to tell the difference from the outside. I guarantee that once Thibs leaves Glen will have some crazy interview that says that he hired someone high profile and it didn't work, and then we will get Ryan Saunders coaching and Sidney Lowe as our GM. I'll be so happy to be proven wrong and have Glen spend real dough on a new GM and a new coach, but I just don't see Glen admitting that he made that big of a mistake with his actions or his pocketbook.
Glen paid plenty of money to get Adelman here. Nobody is arguing Glen is just gonna write a check out for whatever it takes to win (most of us wouldn't want him to go into crazy lux tax now anyway) but he doesn't seem cheap to me.
lipoli390 wrote:We have KAT locked in for 5 more years after this season. That's enough time to retool around him. Okogie could pan out as an allstar caliber player. Saric has more upside in his game. Beyond that, the Wolves need to make the most of each of the next few drafts. The focus should be on picking up one or two more first round picks and maybe a relatively high second round pick in exchange for one or more of our vets, including Teague, Rose, Taj, Tolliver and/or Wiggins. If we could get a first round pick for Rubio, we should be able to parley one of more of the aforementioned players into one or two first round picks. I don't want to trade RoCo, but his abilities and team-friendly contract might be a key to landing a young talent or relatively high first round pick in the trade market. The more picks, the better the chances of hitting paydirt on at least one of them.
The contract with KAT is 5 but we have 4 years to rebuild as the final year in free agency is a wash if we're still trying to rebuild. How is KAT going to feel about the assets around him moving backwards too for draft picks? We're basically in the same place we we're with KG post 2004 only KAT isn't as good as KG. Once KAT is gone this team doesn't survive another rebuild. The only other potential way out of this thing is to draft well, get a new dynamic coach and become a bunch of overachievers like Utah. I can't really see Taylor hiring anyone dynamic, that to me would be the biggest miracle of any scenario.
Drafting well and hiring a good head coach are the keys. It doesn't have to be aa dynamic coach; just a very good one. Drafting well will be the most important variable. That's why it's important to get as many 1st round picks as possible, using our vets to acquire one or two more.
We're actually much better off than we were with KG post 2004. KG's supporting cast at the time wasn't as good. Cassell and Spree were old and had checked out. Beyond those two, there weren't any other consequential players or young upside players around KG. In contrast, KAT has Covington as a very good player early in his prime. He also Saric, Okogie, and Tyus Jones as young players with good to very good upside. He also has Rose, Teague and Tolliver who are all good players with value as teammates or as trade assets. Finally, KAT has Wiggins. He's grossly overpriced, but he can put up 20 points a game and he's become a pretty good defender with potential to become a really good defender. Moreover, Wiggins might have trade value to a team or two. Finally, KAT just turned 23 years old. In 2005, KG was nearly 30.
Everything moves faster now. KAT is 23 but that only makes it more likely he leaves early to me. The factors (surrounding players/assets) are different KG to KAT, but the pressure is the same. That is my point. Players want it all right away in the NBA now. Expecting KAT to be loyal to this franchise through a rebuild is would be a challenge. You're right about coaching and drafting, but again expecting Taylor to make those decisions well would be a pipe dream. He's not going to spend more to properly fill both the GM and coach position. Instead we're going to get some compromise.
I like your optimism though, there's a path to get there, I just see the alternative as a greater possibility. I still think Wiggs has value on the court, I like the elements of this roster fine. I just wish Thibs would move upstairs and let a coach come in who connects to players. That would be the best thing that could happen to this franchise right now, but Thibs seems so prideful that I doubt that's going to happen. Instead he's going to run this team into the ground and force Glen to make a bunch of bad decisions.
Doper, I share your fear. But Glen isn't stingy so I can see him spending to hire a new PBO AND a new coach even if it means paying a high price. Glen's problem is poor judgment, not an unwillingness to spend. So I guess we come out in the same place in having doubts about Taylor making good hiring decisions for the head coach position. But I'm not as pessimistic as you about Glen hiring a good coach who connects with players and implements a style that works in today's NBA.
I agree that Wiggins still has value on the court if used more intelligently. And we both agree we have some good players and assets around KAT. I can certainly see KAT wanting out at some point if things don't turn around. But he's really invested psychologically on winning here. He sees this as his team and wants to be the guy who turns this franchise around. In that sense he's very different from guys like Anthony Davis. So the Wolves have time along with assets to get this thing on track. And it's not like we're starting from the bottom. Right now we're a .500 team - actually better than .500 since Butler's departure. Improvement from Okogie, Saric, Tyus and KAT alone over the next couple seasons will improve the team's record. I wouldn't bet the farm on the Wolves becoming a contender over the next few seasons. But I'll leave the pessimism to Abe. :)
I still scratch my head when people say Glen isn't stingy. We can just disagree on that one. He was a huge proponent of the salary cap after giving KG his deal (which coincidentally screwed us as much as the missing draft picks in the early KG years) called the one time he paid the luxury tax a huge mistake, did nothing for the franchise for 15 years after KG left except letting the team and facilities rot, and he was the main negotiator and proponent of the player's reduction in the share of revenue. He waited to improve Target Center and build the practice facility until the owners had record revenues. His most recent hire was the first high profile hire he made and hired that person to do two jobs. If his motivation was idiocy instead of stinginess it's hard to tell the difference from the outside. I guarantee that once Thibs leaves Glen will have some crazy interview that says that he hired someone high profile and it didn't work, and then we will get Ryan Saunders coaching and Sidney Lowe as our GM. I'll be so happy to be proven wrong and have Glen spend real dough on a new GM and a new coach, but I just don't see Glen admitting that he made that big of a mistake with his actions or his pocketbook.
Glen paid plenty of money to get Adelman here. Nobody is arguing Glen is just gonna write a check out for whatever it takes to win (most of us wouldn't want him to go into crazy lux tax now anyway) but he doesn't seem cheap to me.
Maybe it's all relative to the abysmal owners Minnesota sports fans have seen with Pohlad, Norm Green, Red McCombs, and Ratner and Wolfenson, that Glen comes out looking good. I'm still failing to see it.
lipoli390 wrote:We have KAT locked in for 5 more years after this season. That's enough time to retool around him. Okogie could pan out as an allstar caliber player. Saric has more upside in his game. Beyond that, the Wolves need to make the most of each of the next few drafts. The focus should be on picking up one or two more first round picks and maybe a relatively high second round pick in exchange for one or more of our vets, including Teague, Rose, Taj, Tolliver and/or Wiggins. If we could get a first round pick for Rubio, we should be able to parley one of more of the aforementioned players into one or two first round picks. I don't want to trade RoCo, but his abilities and team-friendly contract might be a key to landing a young talent or relatively high first round pick in the trade market. The more picks, the better the chances of hitting paydirt on at least one of them.
The contract with KAT is 5 but we have 4 years to rebuild as the final year in free agency is a wash if we're still trying to rebuild. How is KAT going to feel about the assets around him moving backwards too for draft picks? We're basically in the same place we we're with KG post 2004 only KAT isn't as good as KG. Once KAT is gone this team doesn't survive another rebuild. The only other potential way out of this thing is to draft well, get a new dynamic coach and become a bunch of overachievers like Utah. I can't really see Taylor hiring anyone dynamic, that to me would be the biggest miracle of any scenario.
Drafting well and hiring a good head coach are the keys. It doesn't have to be aa dynamic coach; just a very good one. Drafting well will be the most important variable. That's why it's important to get as many 1st round picks as possible, using our vets to acquire one or two more.
We're actually much better off than we were with KG post 2004. KG's supporting cast at the time wasn't as good. Cassell and Spree were old and had checked out. Beyond those two, there weren't any other consequential players or young upside players around KG. In contrast, KAT has Covington as a very good player early in his prime. He also Saric, Okogie, and Tyus Jones as young players with good to very good upside. He also has Rose, Teague and Tolliver who are all good players with value as teammates or as trade assets. Finally, KAT has Wiggins. He's grossly overpriced, but he can put up 20 points a game and he's become a pretty good defender with potential to become a really good defender. Moreover, Wiggins might have trade value to a team or two. Finally, KAT just turned 23 years old. In 2005, KG was nearly 30.
Everything moves faster now. KAT is 23 but that only makes it more likely he leaves early to me. The factors (surrounding players/assets) are different KG to KAT, but the pressure is the same. That is my point. Players want it all right away in the NBA now. Expecting KAT to be loyal to this franchise through a rebuild is would be a challenge. You're right about coaching and drafting, but again expecting Taylor to make those decisions well would be a pipe dream. He's not going to spend more to properly fill both the GM and coach position. Instead we're going to get some compromise.
I like your optimism though, there's a path to get there, I just see the alternative as a greater possibility. I still think Wiggs has value on the court, I like the elements of this roster fine. I just wish Thibs would move upstairs and let a coach come in who connects to players. That would be the best thing that could happen to this franchise right now, but Thibs seems so prideful that I doubt that's going to happen. Instead he's going to run this team into the ground and force Glen to make a bunch of bad decisions.
Doper, I share your fear. But Glen isn't stingy so I can see him spending to hire a new PBO AND a new coach even if it means paying a high price. Glen's problem is poor judgment, not an unwillingness to spend. So I guess we come out in the same place in having doubts about Taylor making good hiring decisions for the head coach position. But I'm not as pessimistic as you about Glen hiring a good coach who connects with players and implements a style that works in today's NBA.
I agree that Wiggins still has value on the court if used more intelligently. And we both agree we have some good players and assets around KAT. I can certainly see KAT wanting out at some point if things don't turn around. But he's really invested psychologically on winning here. He sees this as his team and wants to be the guy who turns this franchise around. In that sense he's very different from guys like Anthony Davis. So the Wolves have time along with assets to get this thing on track. And it's not like we're starting from the bottom. Right now we're a .500 team - actually better than .500 since Butler's departure. Improvement from Okogie, Saric, Tyus and KAT alone over the next couple seasons will improve the team's record. I wouldn't bet the farm on the Wolves becoming a contender over the next few seasons. But I'll leave the pessimism to Abe. :)
I still scratch my head when people say Glen isn't stingy. We can just disagree on that one. He was a huge proponent of the salary cap after giving KG his deal (which coincidentally screwed us as much as the missing draft picks in the early KG years) called the one time he paid the luxury tax a huge mistake, did nothing for the franchise for 15 years after KG left except letting the team and facilities rot, and he was the main negotiator and proponent of the player's reduction in the share of revenue. He waited to improve Target Center and build the practice facility until the owners had record revenues. His most recent hire was the first high profile hire he made and hired that person to do two jobs. If his motivation was idiocy instead of stinginess it's hard to tell the difference from the outside. I guarantee that once Thibs leaves Glen will have some crazy interview that says that he hired someone high profile and it didn't work, and then we will get Ryan Saunders coaching and Sidney Lowe as our GM. I'll be so happy to be proven wrong and have Glen spend real dough on a new GM and a new coach, but I just don't see Glen admitting that he made that big of a mistake with his actions or his pocketbook.
Glen paid plenty of money to get Adelman here. Nobody is arguing Glen is just gonna write a check out for whatever it takes to win (most of us wouldn't want him to go into crazy lux tax now anyway) but he doesn't seem cheap to me.
Maybe it's all relative to the abysmal owners Minnesota sports fans have seen with Pohlad, Norm Green, Red McCombs, and Ratner and Wolfenson, that Glen comes out looking good. I'm still failing to see it.
I think you're right about that, doper...a lot of my narrative about Glen not being cheap is based on comparing him to other local owners who are much stingier than him. I will admit that Glen has been cheap in the past when he sold draft choices (never understood that one), but in general I still would not classify him as stingy.
