CoolBreeze's 2 Things I Didn't Like Tonight Plus 1

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I was against Wiggs at the 2 last season, but after seeing his improvement this year at ball handling and especially 3 point shooting, now it seems like a viable option. And since Zach is still only 21, while meanwhile Belly is in his physical prime at 28, you have to consider switching Zach and Belly's roles at least this season. The main question is this: can Belly duplicate or at least give us a lesser version, consistently, of what he did last night? One great game is meaningless if he starts next game and disappears.

I'd give the same starting lineup another look on Tuesday, and maybe beyond if the team thrives. But if Zach is ready and starts again I'm good with that too. I'm putting my trust in Thibs. He already got more out of Payne than I would have ever guessed.

Belly had a nice matchup for this game playing an old looking Deng and a rookie in Ingram that makes Belly look like fat Belly from last year. Remember back when Dunn was so awesome the first few quarters starting for Rubio....? They could probably try that lineup against the Hornets and see what happens as Belly would have a few different guys he may be able to guard. He played one really good game Lavine has played quite a few good games. I am a big fan of Belly but let's slow down this train a little here. I think playing him at SF and using Lavine off the bench could make sense based on some matchups. Heck I thought Thibs was pulling some genius move when I started watched the Lakers game because I didn't know Lavine was out. Lavine playing against those Lakers bench guard would have made a ton of sense with Belly playing Deng as a starter. Let's give Lavine credit for playing well enough to be a starter. Wiggins at the 2 would be awesome but as I said in another post the Wolves need a SF to emerge. Maybe Belly plays well enough to do that at least in certain matchups. He has a lot to prove to be that guy that's reality.

I might take issue with a couple things in your post, monster (keeping in mind I'm prejudiced, because I really want to see Wig at SG where I think he can be a dominant 2-way player). I agree that Luol Deng looked uninspired on offense, so I'm not ready to opine on Belly's ability to guard SFs based on his strong defensive performance Sunday. But Deng looked like Deng on defense...working hard and using his size, smarts and long arms. Remember, this is the same Deng who was so dominant defensively just last spring in the playoffs.

I also take issue with your statement that Zach has played quite a few good games. I agree that he looks really good on offense...handling the ball well, and displaying the sweetest jump shot on the team. But both the eye test and stats give a different conclusion on defense. He's gambling more than last year, and not successfully...I have him as one of the main culprits in the 3rd quarter collapses. And his on/off defensive numbers are horrendous...109 points per 100 possessions when he's playing, and only 98 when he's not. That's meaningful to me, and likely to Thibs.

I'm guessing he sits another game tonight for two reasons...he's too valuable to this team's success to take any chances, and I think Thibs wants another chance to see whether the great performance of his big team was a mirage...maybe it was. I haven't looked at the matchups tonight to evaluate how a big lineup will fare, but I'm looking forward to watching this one.

[Monster]

I was against Wiggs at the 2 last season, but after seeing his improvement this year at ball handling and especially 3 point shooting, now it seems like a viable option. And since Zach is still only 21, while meanwhile Belly is in his physical prime at 28, you have to consider switching Zach and Belly's roles at least this season. The main question is this: can Belly duplicate or at least give us a lesser version, consistently, of what he did last night? One great game is meaningless if he starts next game and disappears.

I'd give the same starting lineup another look on Tuesday, and maybe beyond if the team thrives. But if Zach is ready and starts again I'm good with that too. I'm putting my trust in Thibs. He already got more out of Payne than I would have ever guessed.

Belly had a nice matchup for this game playing an old looking Deng and a rookie in Ingram that makes Belly look like fat Belly from last year. Remember back when Dunn was so awesome the first few quarters starting for Rubio....? They could probably try that lineup against the Hornets and see what happens as Belly would have a few different guys he may be able to guard. He played one really good game Lavine has played quite a few good games. I am a big fan of Belly but let's slow down this train a little here. I think playing him at SF and using Lavine off the bench could make sense based on some matchups. Heck I thought Thibs was pulling some genius move when I started watched the Lakers game because I didn't know Lavine was out. Lavine playing against those Lakers bench guard would have made a ton of sense with Belly playing Deng as a starter. Let's give Lavine credit for playing well enough to be a starter. Wiggins at the 2 would be awesome but as I said in another post the Wolves need a SF to emerge. Maybe Belly plays well enough to do that at least in certain matchups. He has a lot to prove to be that guy that's reality.

I might take issue with a couple things in your post, monster (keeping in mind I'm prejudiced, because I really want to see Wig at SG where I think he can be a dominant 2-way player). I agree that Luol Deng looked uninspired on offense, so I'm not ready to opine on Belly's ability to guard SFs based on his strong defensive performance Sunday. But Deng looked like Deng on defense...working hard and using his size, smarts and long arms. Remember, this is the same Deng who was so dominant defensively just last spring in the playoffs.

I also take issue with your statement that Zach has played quite a few good games. I agree that he looks really good on offense...handling the ball well, and displaying the sweetest jump shot on the team. But both the eye test and stats give a different conclusion on defense. He's gambling more than last year, and not successfully...I have him as one of the main culprits in the 3rd quarter collapses. And his on/off defensive numbers are horrendous...109 points per 100 possessions when he's playing, and only 98 when he's not. That's meaningful to me, and likely to Thibs.

I'm guessing he sits another game tonight for two reasons...he's too valuable to this team's success to take any chances, and I think Thibs wants another chance to see whether the great performance of his big team was a mirage...maybe it was. I haven't looked at the matchups tonight to evaluate how a big lineup will fare, but I'm looking forward to watching this one.

Let's remember we are comparing Lavine at SG and Belly at SF. The sample size for Belly at SF is pretty tiny. Like Misty also said Belly could suck next game in nearly every phase and the Lakers game would seem less meaningful. I see Zach differently than you do which is nothing new and that's ok. I agree though about them sitting Zach again if he isn't pretty much 100%. I noticed he has had a little hitch in his giddyup for a couple games.

[Brooklyn_Wolves [enjin:14608167]]

LaVine playing well on offense as a starter is meaningless when the team went 2 and 6 in that stretch and looked putrid defensively. We have 2 bad perimeter defenders in LaVine(SG) and Wiggins(SF). But Wiggins at SG has a chance to be pretty good. And I doubt that Belly at SF would be any more putrid than Wiggins at SF. So I'm pretty sure that Wiggins/Belly >>> LaVine/Belly on defense. In theory on offense LaVine/Wiggins >>> Wiggins/Belly but in reality not enough shots to go around considering they have to share with KAT, so LaVine is underutilized unless he gets very hot an the team starts to feed him.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Zach LaVine's ability to drill three-pointers efficiently and with volume from anywhere on the court is just as, if not more important, to this team's success than who's defending Andrew Wiggins for the opposition. This board tends to bring up last year's successes down the stretch, but the number one reason why this team took off in the second half of the season offensively was because LaVine was inserted into the starting lineup. There's no way around that. His floor spacing and ability to create for himself and others at times is pivotal to this bunch becoming a juggernaut.

It's also worth noting that Wiggins wasn't struggling to score before the game against the Lakers, and he played plenty SF in that game as well considering Muhammad was out and the Wolves turned to two-PG units during stretches. Andrew can either pick on smaller defenders using his length or overwhelm similarly/bigger built players with his explosiveness/agility. Either way, he's shown that he can put the ball in the hoop or get to the line regardless of who's in front of him. As for defensively, Wiggins defending in isolation hasn't been the problem dating back to his rookie season. However, he's still learning how to factor in as a team defender -- everyone on the team is, actually.

I think fans are [rightfully] desperate to see this roster win and seeing the team do so has sparked some super hot takes. You simply can't bench Zach LaVine in favor of Nemenja Bjelica, though. LaVine has earned his spot more so than Bjelica and he's the second or third most important piece of this core. I don't think that conflict would do any good for the present or future of the Minnesota Timberwolves. Might as well just trade him at that point, and if you do that, I feel confident saying that it'll rub Wiggins and Karl-Anthony Towns -- as well as the fan base -- the wrong way.

[Brooklyn_Wolves [enjin:14608167]]

Some people completely disregard defensive side of the ball. I love Zach's scoring game but his defense is a problem. I think was wrong putting the same bad label both on him and Wiggins. This season Zach is again the negative leader in ON/OFF numbers in opponents eFG% and Ortg. Same as last season. Nothing has changed so far.

And everyone's whipping boy (Gorgui Dieng) is doing better than any other starter yet again. Bjelica is doing well this season btw, but he doesn't start or play much so sample size is questionable.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Zach LaVine's ability to drill three-pointers efficiently and with volume from anywhere on the court is just as, if not more important, to this team's success than who's defending Andrew Wiggins for the opposition. This board tends to bring up last year's successes down the stretch, but the number one reason why this team took off in the second half of the season offensively was because LaVine was inserted into the starting lineup. There's no way around that. His floor spacing and ability to create for himself and others at times is pivotal to this bunch becoming a juggernaut.

It's also worth noting that Wiggins wasn't struggling to score before the game against the Lakers, and he played plenty SF in that game as well considering Muhammad was out and the Wolves turned to two-PG units during stretches. Andrew can either pick on smaller defenders using his length or overwhelm similarly/bigger built players with his explosiveness/agility. Either way, he's shown that he can put the ball in the hoop or get to the line regardless of who's in front of him. As for defensively, Wiggins defending in isolation hasn't been the problem dating back to his rookie season. However, he's still learning how to factor in as a team defender -- everyone on the team is, actually.

I think fans are [rightfully] desperate to see this roster win and seeing the team do so has sparked some super hot takes. You simply can't bench Zach LaVine in favor of Nemenja Bjelica, though. LaVine has earned his spot more so than Bjelica and he's the second or third most important piece of this core. I don't think that conflict would do any good for the present or future of the Minnesota Timberwolves. Might as well just trade him at that point, and if you do that, I feel confident saying that it'll rub Wiggins and Karl-Anthony Towns -- as well as the fan base -- the wrong way.

Welcome back to the fray Cam, good take.

I'm really not in favor of messing with anything in the short-term for the reasons you outline. However, at some point, the defense needs to get better - a LOT better. One would hope that upward trend would start this season.

[Monster]

Some people completely disregard defensive side of the ball. I love Zach's scoring game but his defense is a problem. I think was wrong putting the same bad label both on him and Wiggins. This season Zach is again the negative leader in ON/OFF numbers in opponents eFG% and Ortg. Same as last season. Nothing has changed so far.

And everyone's whipping boy (Gorgui Dieng) is doing better than any other starter yet again. Bjelica is doing well this season btw, but he doesn't start or play much so sample size is questionable.

Where was Town in these stats? Spoiler alert...he wasn't much better than Lavine either year. Just sayin.

[Brooklyn_Wolves [enjin:14608167]]

Some people completely disregard defensive side of the ball. I love Zach's scoring game but his defense is a problem. I think was wrong putting the same bad label both on him and Wiggins. This season Zach is again the negative leader in ON/OFF numbers in opponents eFG% and Ortg. Same as last season. Nothing has changed so far.

And everyone's whipping boy (Gorgui Dieng) is doing better than any other starter yet again. Bjelica is doing well this season btw, but he doesn't start or play much so sample size is questionable.

Where was Town in these stats? Spoiler alert...he wasn't much better than Lavine either year. Just sayin.

Well, Towns isn't really a good overall defender. And many advanced stats kind of point to it. Sure he's capable of isolated impressive defensive stops but he's also prone to defensive lapses. Overall defense was pretty bad when he played. Last season Sam was seen multiple times chewing KAT out during game breaks for making mistakes. I already saw Thibs do the same.

And are you trying to argue that LaVine isn't a crap defender?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I think we really only have one truly plus defender in our starting lineup and that's Ricky. And I realize he's not perfect either, as he can get beat off the bounce by quicker, more athletic point guards and sometimes struggles getting around screens. But from an overall team defense perspective, he does a lot of good things. I believe Dunn is already as good, if not better, so I think we're covered at PG.

Then I'd say Dieng is neutral. He does some nice things in guarding pick and roll and weakside shot blocking, but he's absolutely awful when having to go mano-a-mano with someone in the paint.

Everyone else is below average or worse until they prove otherwise. And it happens to be our youngest and arguably most valuable assets: KAT, Wiggins, and LaVine.

[KiwiMatt]

Good debate going on here!

In regards to the LaVine vs Bjelica starting debate I'm siding with LaVine on this one. To me a solid rotation is far more important than who starts and who comes off the bench. Sure Bjelica benefits playing next to Rubio, but so do a lot of players.

In terms of rotation I'd sub out LaVine at the 6 min mark of the 1st quarter, move Wiggins to the 2 and play Bjelica at the 3. At 3 or 4 min mark i'd sub out Dieng, move KAT to C and bring in Muhammad at SF. At the start of the 2nd quarter I'd roll with the lineup of Dunn - LaVine - Muhammad - Bejlica - Aldrich. Playing LaVine with the reserves would give us an offensive punch and go to scorer.