Josh Richardson question

[Lipoli390]

I hope the Wolves have been clear with the Heat. Whiteside is not going to be part of this deal for the Wolves unless the Heat find some other team to take him. This isn't that complicated. We simply need to make it clear that if the Heat want Butler we'll have to end up with Richardson, Adebayo and another asset other than Whiteside. My preference would be to include Gorgui and get Tyler Johnson as the other asset. But I'd be open to other alternatives - even Waiters if Miami then includes a 1st round pick. There shouldn't have been any miscommunication or last-minute request for more by the Wolves. If that report is true, then the Wolves are really botching what should be a simply negotiation with the Heat.

In the meantime, the Wolves front office should be vigorously shopping Butler to multiple other teams - most notably, Memphis (for a Jaren Jackson package), Washington (for Porter or Beal), Philadelphia (for Covington & Saric or Covington & multiple picks).

None of this is really hard or complicated.

[WildWolf2813]

I hope the Wolves have been clear with the Heat. Whiteside is not going to be part of this deal for the Wolves unless the Heat find some other team to take him. This isn't that complicated. We simply need to make it clear that if the Heat want Butler we'll have to end up with Richardson, Adebayo and another asset other than Whiteside. My preference would be to include Gorgui and get Tyler Johnson as the other asset. But I'd be open to other alternatives - even Waiters if Miami then includes a 1st round pick. There shouldn't have been any miscommunication or last-minute request for more by the Wolves. If that report is true, then the Wolves are really botching what should be a simply negotiation with the Heat.

In the meantime, the Wolves front office should be vigorously shopping Butler to multiple other teams - most notably, Memphis (for a Jaren Jackson package), Washington (for Porter or Beal), Philadelphia (for Covington & Saric or Covington & multiple picks).

None of this is really hard or complicated.

Here's the complicated part: none of your aforementioned dream deals will be close to happening. Nobody is overly pressed to want Butler and pay 90 cents on the dollar for it. The deals you want maybe would have been there in June. They won't be there now. Teams are about to enter the season liking the guys they have, trying to develop a chemistry we don't have, and willing to let things play themselves out. By the time teams see where they're at, Butler is strictly a rental at that point.

The easy solution is to let go of the POBO in charge because there's a major conflict of interest that Glen can't figure out. Furthermore, if I'm Thibodeau and I think I'm gonna get fired, I may just capitulate and take the crappiest deal simply because I know I'm dead man walking no matter what.

[Monster]

I hope the Wolves have been clear with the Heat. Whiteside is not going to be part of this deal for the Wolves unless the Heat find some other team to take him. This isn't that complicated. We simply need to make it clear that if the Heat want Butler we'll have to end up with Richardson, Adebayo and another asset other than Whiteside. My preference would be to include Gorgui and get Tyler Johnson as the other asset. But I'd be open to other alternatives - even Waiters if Miami then includes a 1st round pick. There shouldn't have been any miscommunication or last-minute request for more by the Wolves. If that report is true, then the Wolves are really botching what should be a simply negotiation with the Heat.

In the meantime, the Wolves front office should be vigorously shopping Butler to multiple other teams - most notably, Memphis (for a Jaren Jackson package), Washington (for Porter or Beal), Philadelphia (for Covington & Saric or Covington & multiple picks).

None of this is really hard or complicated.

Here's the complicated part: none of your aforementioned dream deals will be close to happening. Nobody is overly pressed to want Butler and pay 90 cents on the dollar for it. The deals you want maybe would have been there in June. They won't be there now. Teams are about to enter the season liking the guys they have, trying to develop a chemistry we don't have, and willing to let things play themselves out. By the time teams see where they're at, Butler is strictly a rental at that point.

The easy solution is to let go of the POBO in charge because there's a major conflict of interest that Glen can't figure out. Furthermore, if I'm Thibodeau and I think I'm gonna get fired, I may just capitulate and take the crappiest deal simply because I know I'm dead man walking no matter what.

Taking such a strong stance against not taking Whiteside seems pretty inflexible to me. I guess Thibs is rubbing off on Lip. :)

[Crazysauce]

Yeah if it means getting bam and richardson and ridding us of diengs contract i take him. Also if hes right he can be very good. Also think even if he isnt good this year he will be next year when hes playing for another contract.

[Lipoli390]

Yeah if it means getting bam and richardson and ridding us of diengs contract i take him. Also if hes right he can be very good. Also think even if he isnt good this year he will be next year when hes playing for another contract.

I'm assuming the Heat won't give up both Whiteside and Abedayo. If they did, Gorgui would be their only center. As much as Pat Riley is exasperated by Whiteside, he knows his team is much better off with Whiteside at center than Gorgui. There should be little doubt that the Heat want the Wolves to take Whiteside rather than Bam. I'd push back and say not to Whiteside while insisting on Bam along with Richardson. If the Heat were willing to give us Whiteside AND Bam along with Richardson, I'd take the deal and figure out how to deal with Whiteside later. But again, we can't expect to get Bam in a package that also includes Whiteside. So even if I liked Whiteside, it's not what I'd consider a realistic option under my Bam-centric trade parameters. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Lipoli390]

I hope the Wolves have been clear with the Heat. Whiteside is not going to be part of this deal for the Wolves unless the Heat find some other team to take him. This isn't that complicated. We simply need to make it clear that if the Heat want Butler we'll have to end up with Richardson, Adebayo and another asset other than Whiteside. My preference would be to include Gorgui and get Tyler Johnson as the other asset. But I'd be open to other alternatives - even Waiters if Miami then includes a 1st round pick. There shouldn't have been any miscommunication or last-minute request for more by the Wolves. If that report is true, then the Wolves are really botching what should be a simply negotiation with the Heat.

In the meantime, the Wolves front office should be vigorously shopping Butler to multiple other teams - most notably, Memphis (for a Jaren Jackson package), Washington (for Porter or Beal), Philadelphia (for Covington & Saric or Covington & multiple picks).

None of this is really hard or complicated.

Here's the complicated part: none of your aforementioned dream deals will be close to happening. Nobody is overly pressed to want Butler and pay 90 cents on the dollar for it. The deals you want maybe would have been there in June. They won't be there now. Teams are about to enter the season liking the guys they have, trying to develop a chemistry we don't have, and willing to let things play themselves out. By the time teams see where they're at, Butler is strictly a rental at that point.

The easy solution is to let go of the POBO in charge because there's a major conflict of interest that Glen can't figure out. Furthermore, if I'm Thibodeau and I think I'm gonna get fired, I may just capitulate and take the crappiest deal simply because I know I'm dead man walking no matter what.

I actually agree with you that the deals I suggested with teams other than Miami aren't particularly realistic. But I'll bet Thibodeau has been asking for far more from those teams, assuming he's even communicated with them.

As for Miami, I'm convinced that all my trade scenarios are realistic for all the reasons I've given. I acknowledge that I'm pushing the envelop a bit in believing we can get both Richardson and Bam. But I come back to the simple fact that Miami would be much better this upcoming season and for a season or two after than at least with Butler on the team minus both Richardson and Abedayo. Miami's cap and draft situations are such that Pat Riley has not realistic options other than the Butler trade to take the Heat beyond their 6th place finish last season. That's what sets the Heat apart from all the other teams that appear to be pretty apathetic when it comes to Butler. The sad truth is that other teams probably would have been far more intersted and our leverage would have been far greater if we had put Butler on the trading block back in June like I wanted. But I continue to believe we can get a deal from Miami centered around both Richardson and Bam.

[Crazysauce]

Dont forget olynyk can play center. I would guess it depends on how badly they want to rid themselves of whiteside. It sounds like things were a lot worse than most think. If he is a cancer they are likely desperate to move him.

[kekgeek]

Let's not forget that the Wolves are the ones with the top 15 player. Even though Glenn killed some of the leverage by putting a deadline on the table. The Wolves have the assets.

I 100% go into the year with Jimmy if demands are not met. The only way heat can get a top 15 player is trade with the wolves they can't get him in free agency.

Also don't doubt the teams that start out slow and the GMs that get desperate and try and save their jobs. In the end GMs try to save their own butts and we have the asset to save them.

Once again we have the asset no reason to rush. Heat trade will always be there. And if not 20 mil in cap space is not a bad thing at absolute worst case scenario.

[Lipoli390]

Dont forget olynyk can play center. I would guess it depends on how badly they want to rid themselves of whiteside. It sounds like things were a lot worse than most think. If he is a cancer they are likely desperate to move him.

Could be, Crazy. I read a bunch of prior local Miami press on Whiteside. One comment from Dwayne Wade was telling. Wade said about Whiteside, "Sometimes I just can't understand what he's thinking." And it's been widely reported that Riley has been trying to get rid of Whiteside but has failed to find any takers. So I don't know yet if I'd say Rileyis "desperate" to get rid of Whiteside. But no doubt he'd really like to rid his team of Whiteside and his obscene contract.

[Monster]

Dont forget olynyk can play center. I would guess it depends on how badly they want to rid themselves of whiteside. It sounds like things were a lot worse than most think. If he is a cancer they are likely desperate to move him.

Could be, Crazy. I read a bunch of prior local Miami press on Whiteside. One comment from Dwayne Wade was telling. Wade said about Whiteside, "Sometimes I just can't understand what he's thinking." And it's been widely reported that Riley has been trying to get rid of Whiteside but has failed to find any takers. So I don't know yet if I'd say Rileyis "desperate" to get rid of Whiteside. But no doubt he'd really like to rid his team of Whiteside and his obscene contract.

I was a person that said the team that signed Whiteside to a massive might regret doing so even if it made sense to take the chance on his talent...and here we are. It's likely part of the new season hype but there have been a number of articles saying Whiteside wasn't physically right last year especially down the stretch and in the playoffs. The way the Heat's roster is now (and last year) they have options to play at center so yes why not try and find someone who would take him? Obviously the contract is massive and hard to convince someone to take really any player for that much money even for a couple years but a center? Nope. The Wolves will have to take back a back contract in this deal. I can't remember whom brought it up but it was good to point out that Tyler Johnson has a trade kicker of 15% that adds to the fun of making a deal. He could waive it but why would he want to?