CoolBreeze44 wrote:Drew, you can't say you find the New York Times and Washington Post to be trustworthy sources of information. To me, that ends our discussion. It tells me you've been brainwashed by the machine of the left, and anything else you have to say is tainted by that brainwashing.
I'm sorry you think that. I wish we could have a reasonable conversation. If you think that reading those two sources--among the many other sources I listed, including conservative news and opinion sources--means I'm so brainwashed that you can't even have a conversation with me then we really are in trouble.
I didn't expect that we'd necessarily change each others' minds, but at least try to understand one another's positions a bit better, think about our own views a little more clearly, and avoid the dehumanization that characterizes so many political discussions these days.
Dismissing the other person as completely brainwashed because of two mainstream sources they read is a very extreme position, one that reflects a lack of interest in a conversation let alone trying to figure out the truth. I know you wrote earlier that you weren't interested in a back and forth, but I was sort of hoping we could get something somewhat constructive going.
I'll just say this and you can reply or not.
If you're right that these elections were stolen as part of a long-running communist plot, I can't imagine how betrayed I would feel to think about all of the institutions and people that have been actively involved, complicit, or simply duped.
If you're right, it's not just Chinese communists or Democrats who betrayed you, but also elections officials in several states, including many Republicans, who must be complicit or guilty for pulling off one of the most logistically complicated frauds in the history of the world. All those Republicans who have accepted the legitimacy of the elections, now including Bush, Cheney, McConnell, Christie, Graham, and even Pence himself (basically all national Republican politicians except a handful of senators and--admittedly--over 100 House members), must at best be fools who deny irrefutable evidence, or worse, complicit in the overthrow of democracy in the country. You may even include Cruz or Hawley in that group as well, because even though both objected to certification, both have carefully avoided saying it was because the allegations of fraud were true, insisting that it was simply the existence of the allegations that was the reason they didn't want to certify.
If you're right that the presidential votes were fraudulent, then every Congressman elected in the recent election must also have been fraudulently elected since the same ballots were used to elect the President and Congress, making this an even more widespread fraud. If you're right, one-third of all senators and the entirety of the House were just fraudulently elected as well as Biden.
If you're right, then the fact that no major news outlet--including Fox--has reported that there was fraud despite the fact that it's their job to investigate the truth would be proof that basically the entire media is complicit in the fraud given the existence of irrefutable proof as you say. If you're right, the FBI and the courts, including many Republican and Trump-appointed judges, which have found no evidence of fraud or rejected cases on procedural grounds, must also essentially be complicit or negligent at best.
If you're right, the large majority of Americans who believe the elections were legitimate must also be involved, complicit, or duped into destroying our democracy. The vast majority of people outside the U.S. who believe Biden actually won--including basically every foreign leader in the world like Boris Johnson, Macron, Merkel, and others--must also have been duped as well. Basically, it must feel like almost the entire world has been fooled if they weren't actually in on the fraud themselves.
And if you're right that this election was irrefutably stolen, Trump's own admission that he would leave office on January 20th must feel like a final betrayal and surrender. If you're both right that the elections were stolen and he actually steps aside rather than standing his ground and refusing to leave even if it meant imprisonment or his own death, essentially he will have chosen his own freedom or his life over our democracy. I assume we both appreciate those who have served in the military and have sacrificed their lives for our country. If this fraud happened and if Trump actually leaves office on January 20th rather than standing his ground, arming himself if need be, and physically fighting to stay in office, then he will not only have failed to live up to their example, he will have betrayed their sacrifice. If you're right and if Trump doesn't go down literally fighting (which it looks like he won't), then in the face of the most shocking assault on the country in history, one that we agree would constitute the death of our democracy and of the nation itself, then Trump will have literally betrayed us by failing to sacrifice himself for the country.
If you're right, then on top of the realization of how deep and intricate this conspiracy has been, how widely it has undermined our democracy, how complicit so many people are, and how successfully this fraud has fooled the majority of the world, I can't even begin to imagine what that would feel like to be betrayed by Trump himself if and when he leaves office without a physical fight in a little over a week. I'm sincerely sorry for all of you who must feel that way.
