Preseason opener.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Watched the entire game on replay and concur with the positive comments about Tolliver, Jones and a few others. Nice to beat the Warriors on the road even in preseason. Unfortunately two negatives stood out to me while watching, and are glaringly documented in the box score:


-71 points given up in the first half. 71! Thank god Kerr played his reserves most of the second half, or we may have given up 150. This team generally struggled on defense last year when Butler wasn't on the court, and I saw nothing different last night...in fact maybe worse. As a very well-written article from last spring pointed out (we discussed this at length at the time), modern offenses have figured out how to attack a Thibs defensive scheme which has not kept up with the times.


-15 assists for us compared to 33 for the Warriors. I don't think any stat better brings out the difference between a Thibs-designed offense and a modern NBA offense.


I'm optimistic though because I see a lot of talent on this roster, and I think two things will happen before the end of the calendar year:


1) Thibs will be gone, replaced by a young coach who understands the new NBA game and will make this team better and more watchable.


2) Hopefully Butler will be replaced by a player who can shore up the starting defense like Butler did last year, allowing Rose to provide offensive spark on the second unit.


Absent these two things, I forecast a season where we are just talented enough to battle for the 8th spot, but end up close to .500.

God yes, Thibs' offense is so painful to watch. ISO, ISO, ISO. Just so hard to cheer for. No movement off the ball at all really.

Also, yes, this team will miss Butler's defense terribly.

Finally, the only things that really matter about this team are Thibs, Towns, Butler, and Wiggins' contract. Until Thibs is gone, we are in trouble, especially with Butler out the door. Towns is the cornerstone, but he needs to improve his D. I saw a couple signs of that last night. And I have hated Wiggins' game for years (and used to get criticized extensively by cool for it until last year when Wiggins' awful play was so obvious that wasn't even possible any more) but even I I can't believe how he hasn't really taken a step forward at all. Watching him hold the ball, then slowly dribble side to side while the defense sets and then settle for a long contested 2 time and again last night was so painful to watch again last night. Dumping his contract HAS to be the #1 priority going forward. If we can't get rid of him, we are screwed for years to come.

[Monster]

A couple questions for those that saw the game:

I've seem some hype about Okogie on realgm and on Twitter. It's 1 preseason game but what did you think?

What about the pace did the Wolves get up and down the floor more? I know they isolated once they got down there but did they get the ball up quicker more?

[Duke13]

Prediction - the Wig bashing that is about to happen daily on this board (I'll be one of them and deservedly so) Cool will walk away from the board. Unfortunate because he is a HOF poster.

[60WinTim]

A couple questions for those that saw the game:

I've seem some hype about Okogie on realgm and on Twitter. It's 1 preseason game but what did you think?

What about the pace did the Wolves get up and down the floor more? I know they isolated once they got down there but did they get the ball up quicker more?

I watched the game late last night. Okogie was definitely worth talking about. Cam is hoping we see a dramatic improvement from Okogie between summer league and the season, ala Donovan Mitchell. And I think we saw signs of that. He looked much more poised and in control on offense, and I swear his handle looks improved as well. His defense continues to look great. It seems Okogie is everything we wished Wiggins could be!

A couple other notes:

Dieng's boxscore might have been okay, but he did not look good at all, in my opinion. I thought Deng looked a bit slow, but not as slow as Dieng. It is quite possible Dieng's minutes drop even more this year with Tolliver, Deng and KBD in the fold.

Everything we hate about Wiggins' offensive game was on display tonight. I still do not understand how he was rewarded with a max contract when he really has done nothing but score a shitload of inefficient points.

I thought Rose looked good. His injury history suggests he will not hold up, but he certainly makes our team deeper. We are missing Butler, but this team "feels" deeper than it did when Butler was healthy and playing last year. I guess that's what happens when you have more versatile players in place of a couple of one-position players from last year, Brooks and Aldrich.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

A couple questions for those that saw the game:

I've seem some hype about Okogie on realgm and on Twitter. It's 1 preseason game but what did you think?

What about the pace did the Wolves get up and down the floor more? I know they isolated once they got down there but did they get the ball up quicker more?

I like Okogie's hustle for sure. Without Butler, we need somebody who will put out more effort on both sides of the ball, especially for rebounds and 50-50 balls. He drew a foul or two contesting shots, but that's better than giving up easy buckets. His arms may be long, but he's not as tall as Butler or Wiggins, so a couple guys were able to get off jump shots right over him before he could get his hands up. He did knock down a couple jump shots, but it doesn't look smooth for him. He's kind of a pop-up shooter, if you know what I mean. He stomps a bit with both feet and then pops up quick for the jump shot. Like Westbrook, Rose, or Butler, none of whom are known for their high percentage jump shots. I'm not sure I see a guy who is going to contribute much offensively early on, but if Towns and Taj are getting more shots, that's fine, because they are higher percentage shooters. He could end up being a defensive specialist who fits our needs well. If he could develop a reliable 3 point shot, then he could be a much more valuable player, a 3 and D kind of guy. Like a more defensive Wes Matthews type, or a smaller Trevor Ariza. But that's if his 3 point shot comes along. Otherwise I see him as a more aggressive MGH in the meantime (and I liked what MGH brought to the table for us).

My sense is that we didn't run too much, unfortunately, although I'll want to watch that for a few more games before concluding that's happening for sure.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Prediction - the Wig bashing that is about to happen daily on this board (I'll be one of them and deservedly so) Cool will walk away from the board. Unfortunate because he is a HOF poster.

Just to clarify, I'm criticizing Wiggins, not cool, whose posts I generally appreciate although I usually don't agree with him. But before last year, almost every time I or someone else criticized Wiggins, cool attacked the messenger as much as the message. It made me come to the board less often for sure.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

Wiggs took 3 long 2's and made 1. I thought he looked ok in the post, grabbed some tough rebounds, and deflected a few balls. But yeah, his offense didnt look great. I also thought he and kat looked much better on the defensive side of the ball.

We seem to run 2 types of offenses. Iso heavy with the starters and perimeter ball movement with the bench.

Teague and rose iso alot. And when that doesnt work they give to wiggs to iso from the 3 pt line or give it to kat to iso in the post. We still dont run.

The bench guys cant create any offense, so the just move the ball around hoping for tolliver to hit a deep 3.

[Monster]

Maybe this should be another thread but I'd hope that the Wiggins "bashing" this season can be both seen and expressed as legit critism not just personal attacks/the guy is a compete bum. There is absolutely reason to rip the guy at times. People are going to vent about him to as a max guy with crazy physical gifts that's a former #1 overall pick that legitimately doesn't always play hard. I'd hope this is a season where we all can maybe agree this is maybe not a definitive season for what we have with Wiggins but maybe closer to that. IMHO each season partly is about finding out what you have in various players and obviously Wiggins is among those.

[Coolbreeze44]

Prediction - the Wig bashing that is about to happen daily on this board (I'll be one of them and deservedly so) Cool will walk away from the board. Unfortunate because he is a HOF poster.

Just to clarify, I'm criticizing Wiggins, not cool, whose posts I generally appreciate although I usually don't agree with him. But before last year, almost every time I or someone else criticized Wiggins, cool attacked the messenger as much as the message. It made me come to the board less often for sure.

Let's be honest here. I stated at the beginning of last season that I wasn't going to get involved with the daily Wiggins chatter. And for the most part I followed through on that. Yes, there were a few times where i thought the vitriol was especially harsh and I stepped in to bring some reality to the discussion. There were times when I was goaded in to replying. But those occasions were few and far between. Hearing these comments, I will again refrain from daily intercourse on the subject of Wiggins. I certainly don't want to be the reason someone doesn't come to the board.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Maybe this should be another thread but I'd hope that the Wiggins "bashing" this season can be both seen and expressed as legit critism not just personal attacks/the guy is a compete bum. There is absolutely reason to rip the guy at times. People are going to vent about him to as a max guy with crazy physical gifts that's a former #1 overall pick that legitimately doesn't always play hard. I'd hope this is a season where we all can maybe agree this is maybe not a definitive season for what we have with Wiggins I'd hope this is a season where we all can maybe agree this is maybe not a definitive season for what we have with Wiggins but maybe closer to that. IMHO each season partly is about finding out what you have in various players and obviously Wiggins is among those.

It's his 5th year Monster, my goodness, at what point would you expect we pretty much know what we have? If he doesn't make big strides this year, he and his contract become an albatross on this franchise.

That being said, it's one pre-season game, so even I agree it's a little early to get on his case as far as this season is concerned.