khans2k5 wrote:It's not a Jimmy money thing. Anyone who understands the CBA knows veteran extensions are bullshit and promote player movement because they stand to make more in Free Agency than an extension. To me it's pretty clear he's not on board with the two highest paid players not having a commitment to winning most of the rest of the team has. He doesn't want to play with KAT and Wiggins because they just don't play the way he demands his teammates play the game and they happen to be the two guys who make more money than Jimmy. If KAT acted and played like Embiid or Porzingas I don't think any of this is a problem.
Thats true, extensions are BS because Thibs did offer as much as they could. But it still doesn't change the fact that the Wolves cannot even after this season offer Jimmy what KAT got without going into LUX CAP hell. KAT refusing to sign his extension for so long I think shows that he and Jimmy do not get along. Maybe Jimmy really did sleep with his girl.
On the money thing...here is a transcript of most of the sit down. And here is the quote straight from Butler. To me he said it's not about the money but then basically said it was about the money because they didn't move heaven and earth to pay him so he was not valued. He says it's all about telling the truth and being honest. This interview there is a few things that make me think he isn't really being honest which pisses me off about as much as anything.
Nichols: And he has two jobs here right? So he's the coach of the team, he's also the president of the team, so through the summers as you're also talking about contract stuff. They offered you an extension that would have given you four years, $110 million. The reports are that you wanted something else. That if they had moved some other pieces around, and freed up more money, that you would have gotten a renegotiation. It would have given you a shorter term contract, but more money. Is all that accurate?
Butler: It's accurate. But it's not about money. It's not.
Nichols: So tell me what it's about.
Butler: It's about saying we need you. We want you here. We can't do this without you. And that was the disconnect all along. You're saying one thing and you're saying it, and you're saying it. I mean I've learned enough times in life that saying something is completely different than acting upon it. Actions speak louder than words, whatever quote you want to use. And when it came to that point, it was like I let y'all know what the deal was as soon as you traded for me. I told you the truth from Day 1 and I will continue to do it. And I did it. It's kinda like, I don't know, a slap in the face? I don't know how to put it, but it made me think like maybe I'm not that important to your organization. That is how I took it.
khans2k5 wrote:It's not a Jimmy money thing. Anyone who understands the CBA knows veteran extensions are bullshit and promote player movement because they stand to make more in Free Agency than an extension. To me it's pretty clear he's not on board with the two highest paid players not having a commitment to winning most of the rest of the team has. He doesn't want to play with KAT and Wiggins because they just don't play the way he demands his teammates play the game and they happen to be the two guys who make more money than Jimmy. If KAT acted and played like Embiid or Porzingas I don't think any of this is a problem.
What has Porzingis done?
I'm not a KAT apologist... but ripping KAT while championing Porzingis seems to be nearing "ax to grind" territory... unless I'm missing something.
Just for fun... KAT has never missed an NBA game. 250 in a row. I rarely hear that mentioned.
Just for fun... Porzingis is 7'3" and averaged 6.6 rebounds per game last season. His counting stats and his efficiency haven't met KAT standards yet.
khans2k5 wrote:It's not a Jimmy money thing. Anyone who understands the CBA knows veteran extensions are bullshit and promote player movement because they stand to make more in Free Agency than an extension. To me it's pretty clear he's not on board with the two highest paid players not having a commitment to winning most of the rest of the team has. He doesn't want to play with KAT and Wiggins because they just don't play the way he demands his teammates play the game and they happen to be the two guys who make more money than Jimmy. If KAT acted and played like Embiid or Porzingas I don't think any of this is a problem.
What has Porzingis done?
I'm not a KAT apologist... but ripping KAT while championing Porzingis seems to be nearing "ax to grind" territory... unless I'm missing something.
Just for fun... KAT has never missed an NBA game. 250 in a row. I rarely hear that mentioned.
Just for fun... Porzingis is 7'3" and averaged 6.6 rebounds per game last season. His counting stats and his efficiency haven't met KAT standards yet.
Thanks for a dose of truth, Abe. As for Embiid, he's more talented than KAT in my view. But I've seen no evidence that he works harder than KAT.
While I definitely agree KAT is far from perfect, the fact of the matter is he is one of the most gifted and effective offensive players in the game. He is damn near a 50/40/90 scorer, which is incredible for a 7-footer. His passing will only get better with time. Defensively, he needs to improve, but at least he rebounds and he has had stretches of very effective play on that end.
The next regime needs to completely clean house and every single move they make needs to focus on surrounding KAT with shooters and defenders. Okogie seems like a nice start on the latter plus he's on a rookie contract. There is literally no one else on the squad I'm attached to. I love Tyus, but he needs to prove he can make shots.
I think Monster's post about the transcript shows that this is similar to the Marbury situation. The stupid thinking that a players' worth is determined by his contract. While Butler says it isn't about the money, he means it is about showing that they value him by paying him the most.
The bigger takeaway here is that Jimmy says he has been telling Thibs this since he was traded here. I take that to mean that he wanted a renegotiation the minute we traded for him. We could have done that by simply not making the Ricky deal, and not having to sign Teague. Nichols did state the new deal would have been a shorter term, and I would like to know what the details of that are, but it sounds like Thibs could have locked him up longer term immediately after trading for him.
sjm34 wrote:I think Monster's post about the transcript shows that this is similar to the Marbury situation. The stupid thinking that a players' worth is determined by his contract. While Butler says it isn't about the money, he means it is about showing that they value him by paying him the most.
The bigger takeaway here is that Jimmy says he has been telling Thibs this since he was traded here. I take that to mean that he wanted a renegotiation the minute we traded for him. We could have done that by simply not making the Ricky deal, and not having to sign Teague. Nichols did state the new deal would have been a shorter term, and I would like to know what the details of that are, but it sounds like Thibs could have locked him up longer term immediately after trading for him.
Interesting....just another piece of evidence in the case against Thibs I guess.
At this point, it's time to move on. We have about as close as we are going to get to a franchise player in KAT. That's a nice start. A smart GM should be able to get this thing on track without years of futility via some "process" ala the Sixers.
monsterpile wrote:On the money thing...here is a transcript of most of the sit down. And here is the quote straight from Butler. To me he said it's not about the money but then basically said it was about the money because they didn't move heaven and earth to pay him so he was not valued. He says it's all about telling the truth and being honest. This interview there is a few things that make me think he isn't really being honest which pisses me off about as much as anything.
Nichols: And he has two jobs here right? So he's the coach of the team, he's also the president of the team, so through the summers as you're also talking about contract stuff. They offered you an extension that would have given you four years, $110 million. The reports are that you wanted something else. That if they had moved some other pieces around, and freed up more money, that you would have gotten a renegotiation. It would have given you a shorter term contract, but more money. Is all that accurate?
Butler: It's accurate. But it's not about money. It's not.
Nichols: So tell me what it's about.
Butler: It's about saying we need you. We want you here. We can't do this without you. And that was the disconnect all along. You're saying one thing and you're saying it, and you're saying it. I mean I've learned enough times in life that saying something is completely different than acting upon it. Actions speak louder than words, whatever quote you want to use. And when it came to that point, it was like I let y'all know what the deal was as soon as you traded for me. I told you the truth from Day 1 and I will continue to do it. And I did it. It's kinda like, I don't know, a slap in the face? I don't know how to put it, but it made me think like maybe I'm not that important to your organization. That is how I took it.
Monster - Thanks for posting and included the excerpt. This is really telling. It truly is about the money. He's offended because the Wolves didn't make him their top contract priority, which in his mind required them to renegotiate his deal this summer. I think he truly believes it's not about the money, but of course it is. Players generally don't demand more money so they can buy another mansion. They demand it as a sign of respect. Marbury forced a trade, not because he needed more money for his lifestyle, but because KG made more. So it might be about respect, but it's definitely about the money. It eats at Butler that KAT and Wiggins make more money but don't, in his mind work as hard. But I think it's important to consider that Butler's ego might be getting in the way of his judgment. I get Butler questioning Wiggins' effort. We've all seen it. And note that KG has said that Wiggins "has no heart," which is his way of saying the passion and effort aren't there. But KG loves KAT and has never questioned KAT's effort. KG is not the kind of guy to like a players who doesn't give his all and play with heart.
monsterpile wrote:On the money thing...here is a transcript of most of the sit down. And here is the quote straight from Butler. To me he said it's not about the money but then basically said it was about the money because they didn't move heaven and earth to pay him so he was not valued. He says it's all about telling the truth and being honest. This interview there is a few things that make me think he isn't really being honest which pisses me off about as much as anything.
Nichols: And he has two jobs here right? So he's the coach of the team, he's also the president of the team, so through the summers as you're also talking about contract stuff. They offered you an extension that would have given you four years, $110 million. The reports are that you wanted something else. That if they had moved some other pieces around, and freed up more money, that you would have gotten a renegotiation. It would have given you a shorter term contract, but more money. Is all that accurate?
Butler: It's accurate. But it's not about money. It's not.
Nichols: So tell me what it's about.
Butler: It's about saying we need you. We want you here. We can't do this without you. And that was the disconnect all along. You're saying one thing and you're saying it, and you're saying it. I mean I've learned enough times in life that saying something is completely different than acting upon it. Actions speak louder than words, whatever quote you want to use. And when it came to that point, it was like I let y'all know what the deal was as soon as you traded for me. I told you the truth from Day 1 and I will continue to do it. And I did it. It's kinda like, I don't know, a slap in the face? I don't know how to put it, but it made me think like maybe I'm not that important to your organization. That is how I took it.
Monster - Thanks for posting and included the excerpt. This is really telling. It truly is about the money. He's offended because the Wolves didn't make him their top contract priority, which in his mind required them to renegotiate his deal this summer. I think he truly believes it's not about the money, but of course it is. Players generally don't demand more money so they can buy another mansion. They demand it as a sign of respect. Marbury forced a trade, not because he needed more money for his lifestyle, but because KG made more. So it might be about respect, but it's definitely about the money. It eats at Butler that KAT and Wiggins make more money but don't, in his mind work as hard. But I think it's important to consider that Butler's ego might be getting in the way of his judgment. I get Butler questioning Wiggins' effort. We've all seen it. And note that KG has said that Wiggins "has no heart," which is his way of saying the passion and effort aren't there. But KG loves KAT and has never questioned KAT's effort. KG is not the kind of guy to like a players who doesn't give his all and play with heart.
I've said this A LOT on here over the years... it is often about the money.
Granted, that was when I was warning people that having an entire team of young guys looking to get paid and "get theirs" was perhaps not the best thing.
Turns out it's from a seasoned vet.
[Note: And I'm still confused why Wiggins + Towns continue to be grouped as one. Sure KAT makes more. But I see the $150M to Wiggins as the giant elephant in the room a lot more than KAT's deal. Then again, "alpha dogs" (ahem ahem) want the most money a lot of the time.]
monsterpile wrote:On the money thing...here is a transcript of most of the sit down. And here is the quote straight from Butler. To me he said it's not about the money but then basically said it was about the money because they didn't move heaven and earth to pay him so he was not valued. He says it's all about telling the truth and being honest. This interview there is a few things that make me think he isn't really being honest which pisses me off about as much as anything.
Nichols: And he has two jobs here right? So he's the coach of the team, he's also the president of the team, so through the summers as you're also talking about contract stuff. They offered you an extension that would have given you four years, $110 million. The reports are that you wanted something else. That if they had moved some other pieces around, and freed up more money, that you would have gotten a renegotiation. It would have given you a shorter term contract, but more money. Is all that accurate?
Butler: It's accurate. But it's not about money. It's not.
Nichols: So tell me what it's about.
Butler: It's about saying we need you. We want you here. We can't do this without you. And that was the disconnect all along. You're saying one thing and you're saying it, and you're saying it. I mean I've learned enough times in life that saying something is completely different than acting upon it. Actions speak louder than words, whatever quote you want to use. And when it came to that point, it was like I let y'all know what the deal was as soon as you traded for me. I told you the truth from Day 1 and I will continue to do it. And I did it. It's kinda like, I don't know, a slap in the face? I don't know how to put it, but it made me think like maybe I'm not that important to your organization. That is how I took it.
Monster - Thanks for posting and included the excerpt. This is really telling. It truly is about the money. He's offended because the Wolves didn't make him their top contract priority, which in his mind required them to renegotiate his deal this summer. I think he truly believes it's not about the money, but of course it is. Players generally don't demand more money so they can buy another mansion. They demand it as a sign of respect. Marbury forced a trade, not because he needed more money for his lifestyle, but because KG made more. So it might be about respect, but it's definitely about the money. It eats at Butler that KAT and Wiggins make more money but don't, in his mind work as hard. But I think it's important to consider that Butler's ego might be getting in the way of his judgment. I get Butler questioning Wiggins' effort. We've all seen it. And note that KG has said that Wiggins "has no heart," which is his way of saying the passion and effort aren't there. But KG loves KAT and has never questioned KAT's effort. KG is not the kind of guy to like a players who doesn't give his all and play with heart.
I've said this A LOT on here over the years... it is often about the money.
Granted, that was when I was warning people that having an entire team of young guys looking to get paid and "get theirs" was perhaps not the best thing.
Turns out it's from a seasoned vet.
[Note: And I'm still confused why Wiggins + Towns continue to be grouped as one. Sure KAT makes more. But I see the $150M to Wiggins as the giant elephant in the room a lot more than KAT's deal. Then again, "alpha dogs" (ahem ahem) want the most money a lot of the time.]
Good point about the misleading tendency to group KAT and Wiggins together.
