TeamRicky wrote:Bloopy, Schroder is not better than Ricky and there aren't 7-9 point guards 28 or under "significantly better" than Ricky. That statement might be as ridiculous as your statement that Thibs deserves to be "coach of the year".
I think you're the only user on this forum who believed I was serious when I said that
Kemba
Lillard
Irving
Bledsoe
Isiah Thomas
Wall
Curry
Harden
Westbrook
wow that was easy!
I count 2. Only Westbrook and Curry are "significantly better". Harden is not a point guard.
Oh come on Ricky. Remember, my name use to be Rubioooo. I love him as much as the next. Harden is a PG now, and a top one. I doubt youll find many who wouldn't trade rubio for harden, wall, Irving, lillard, kemba.
I'll give you Thomas and bledsoe. Thomas will decline fast in this league and is too easy to take advantage of in the POs. And Bledsoe seems to ride the pine due to injury too often. Outside of those two you're being quite the homer.
Why would you pay a lot more money for Irving, Wall,or Kemba when they consistently have worse RPMs than Ricky. Ricky fits our team like a glove. We have plenty of scoring, but Ricky's a better passer and defender. He is a humble guy with a great attitude and teammates love him. Bring in an alpha dog that's less of a team player and watch the drama unfold. Westbrook is a great player, but the family concept fell apart with him. I think Ricky is a good fit here and I think he's getting better (there's a reason I keep bringing up that he's younger than virtually every higher ranked point guard, I believe his best days are ahead).
Q12543 wrote:You don't HAVE to have a PG that is an elite scorer/playmaker to make a deep playoff run. However, you need someone who can perform this role. In fact, the bigger, the better. I'd much rather have a wing play this role than a PG. The Jordan/Kobe/LeBron/Wade's of the world have won a lot of rings. We're now seeing Kawhi Leonard blossom into the next elite play making/scoring wing.
The reason Thibs experimented so heavily with "point Wiggins" sets is because he knows a 6'8 uber athlete going down hill is far more dangerous than a 6'2 point guard. The issue with Wiggins is that he has a really long ways to go to become a better ball handler and play maker.
Wiggins will never be as good as the guys you mentioned from a playmaking standpoint. He'll get better, but not enough to the point that he's gonna be a point wing. His handle and playmaking just seem way too far behind where a typical good playmaker starts from for me to believe he's going to be a good option as a point forward. 6'2-6'4 guards still dominate the league offensively. You don't need to be 6'8 to do it at an elite level.
Kahns do you find the humor in how just a year or 2 ago this board was saying that you didn't have to have a good/great PG to win? the league is different now but part of it is the rule changes part fo it is the insane talent and part is how the game has evolved with guys getting more skilled. Im not completely convinced you HAVE to have a PG be the guy to do it but SOMEONE has to either be added to the roster for that role or someone already on the roster has to come into it. What we still don't know is how the dynamic of Wiggins Town and Lavine works out. those guys could be a deadly group of scorers.
TeamRicky wrote:Bloopy, Schroder is not better than Ricky and there aren't 7-9 point guards 28 or under "significantly better" than Ricky. That statement might be as ridiculous as your statement that Thibs deserves to be "coach of the year".
I think you're the only user on this forum who believed I was serious when I said that
Kemba
Lillard
Irving
Bledsoe
Isiah Thomas
Wall
Curry
Harden
Westbrook
wow that was easy!
I count 2. Only Westbrook and Curry are "significantly better". Harden is not a point guard.
Oh come on Ricky. Remember, my name use to be Rubioooo. I love him as much as the next. Harden is a PG now, and a top one. I doubt youll find many who wouldn't trade rubio for harden, wall, Irving, lillard, kemba.
I'll give you Thomas and bledsoe. Thomas will decline fast in this league and is too easy to take advantage of in the POs. And Bledsoe seems to ride the pine due to injury too often. Outside of those two you're being quite the homer.
Why would you pay a lot more money for Irving, Wall,or Kemba when they consistently have worse RPMs than Ricky. Ricky fits our team like a glove. We have plenty of scoring, but Ricky's a better passer and defender. He is a humble guy with a great attitude and teammates love him. Bring in an alpha dog that's less of a team player and watch the drama unfold. Westbrook is a great player, but the family concept fell apart with him. I think Ricky is a good fit here and I think he's getting better (there's a reason I keep bringing up that he's younger than virtually every higher ranked point guard, I believe his best days are ahead).
I wonder if we would get to watch a playoff berth unfold as well if we brought in an alpha at point?
TeamRicky wrote:Bloopy, Schroder is not better than Ricky and there aren't 7-9 point guards 28 or under "significantly better" than Ricky. That statement might be as ridiculous as your statement that Thibs deserves to be "coach of the year".
You're the one being ridiculous thinking one stat (+/-) puts Ricky in the same class as legitimate all-stars like Lillard, Wall, Irving, Kemba, IT, and Conley. Every single one of those teams would laugh you off the phone if you offered Ricky straight up for those guys and as you said he's younger and on a better deal. That's 6 guys off the top of my head that would laugh as they hang the phone up on you.
Q12543 wrote:You don't HAVE to have a PG that is an elite scorer/playmaker to make a deep playoff run. However, you need someone who can perform this role. In fact, the bigger, the better. I'd much rather have a wing play this role than a PG. The Jordan/Kobe/LeBron/Wade's of the world have won a lot of rings. We're now seeing Kawhi Leonard blossom into the next elite play making/scoring wing.
The reason Thibs experimented so heavily with "point Wiggins" sets is because he knows a 6'8 uber athlete going down hill is far more dangerous than a 6'2 point guard. The issue with Wiggins is that he has a really long ways to go to become a better ball handler and play maker.
Wiggins will never be as good as the guys you mentioned from a playmaking standpoint. He'll get better, but not enough to the point that he's gonna be a point wing. His handle and playmaking just seem way too far behind where a typical good playmaker starts from for me to believe he's going to be a good option as a point forward. 6'2-6'4 guards still dominate the league offensively. You don't need to be 6'8 to do it at an elite level.
Won't disagree on your assessment of Wiggins and how far he has to go, but I think he can and will improve. I also think KAT is capable of eventually becoming an elite big man passer. Don't forget, he can put the ball on the floor too.
How many of those ball-dominant point guards you mentioned have won a title by the way?
It's also funny how much time we debate the need for a scoring PG versus keeping Rubio when we already have a top 10 offense and bottom 4 defense. Sorry guys, but a 20-year old rookie PG ain't going to help us much in the area we need it most.
Q12543 wrote:You don't HAVE to have a PG that is an elite scorer/playmaker to make a deep playoff run. However, you need someone who can perform this role. In fact, the bigger, the better. I'd much rather have a wing play this role than a PG. The Jordan/Kobe/LeBron/Wade's of the world have won a lot of rings. We're now seeing Kawhi Leonard blossom into the next elite play making/scoring wing.
The reason Thibs experimented so heavily with "point Wiggins" sets is because he knows a 6'8 uber athlete going down hill is far more dangerous than a 6'2 point guard. The issue with Wiggins is that he has a really long ways to go to become a better ball handler and play maker.
Wiggins will never be as good as the guys you mentioned from a playmaking standpoint. He'll get better, but not enough to the point that he's gonna be a point wing. His handle and playmaking just seem way too far behind where a typical good playmaker starts from for me to believe he's going to be a good option as a point forward. 6'2-6'4 guards still dominate the league offensively. You don't need to be 6'8 to do it at an elite level.
Kahns do you find the humor in how just a year or 2 ago this board was saying that you didn't have to have a good/great PG to win? the league is different now but part of it is the rule changes part fo it is the insane talent and part is how the game has evolved with guys getting more skilled. Im not completely convinced you HAVE to have a PG be the guy to do it but SOMEONE has to either be added to the roster for that role or someone already on the roster has to come into it. What we still don't know is how the dynamic of Wiggins Town and Lavine works out. those guys could be a deadly group of scorers.
I think the league is generally the same. There are just a lot of really good PG's now. At the end of the day your primary ball handler needs to be able to break down the defense and score the ball or setup teammates. Ricky can setup teammates, but can't score and Wiggins can score, but can't setup teammates off his drives. Whether it's a PG or wing it doesn't matter. All I know is there are a lot more PG's who can do it in the league right now and Fultz and Ball can do it while there are less wings/bigs who can be that primary playmaking guy and I don't think Tatum or Isaac can do it and Jackson is a maybe. So you have Lebron, Harden, Batum, Butler, Horford Giannis and Draymond as the only wings/bigs who averaged 5 APG's or more per game out of the 31 players who managed that feat this year. That's 23% of the top playmakers in the league. Ricky and Draymond are the only 2 in the top 10 who didn't score at least 15 PPG's and Draymond has a pretty good excuse for not scoring more next to Steph, Klay and Durant. It's not new to the league. The league has just transformed which positions players are most likely to do it. Either Wiggins has to step up by a lot on the playmaking front, we need to play like the Spurs offensively or you have to go get that guy and I think Fultz and Ball can be that guy. I would bank on either of them well before I would bank on Wiggins being able to do it and I don't think Thibs is gonna turn us into the Spurs offensively any time soon.
Q12543 wrote:You don't HAVE to have a PG that is an elite scorer/playmaker to make a deep playoff run. However, you need someone who can perform this role. In fact, the bigger, the better. I'd much rather have a wing play this role than a PG. The Jordan/Kobe/LeBron/Wade's of the world have won a lot of rings. We're now seeing Kawhi Leonard blossom into the next elite play making/scoring wing.
The reason Thibs experimented so heavily with "point Wiggins" sets is because he knows a 6'8 uber athlete going down hill is far more dangerous than a 6'2 point guard. The issue with Wiggins is that he has a really long ways to go to become a better ball handler and play maker.
Wiggins will never be as good as the guys you mentioned from a playmaking standpoint. He'll get better, but not enough to the point that he's gonna be a point wing. His handle and playmaking just seem way too far behind where a typical good playmaker starts from for me to believe he's going to be a good option as a point forward. 6'2-6'4 guards still dominate the league offensively. You don't need to be 6'8 to do it at an elite level.
Kahns do you find the humor in how just a year or 2 ago this board was saying that you didn't have to have a good/great PG to win? the league is different now but part of it is the rule changes part fo it is the insane talent and part is how the game has evolved with guys getting more skilled. Im not completely convinced you HAVE to have a PG be the guy to do it but SOMEONE has to either be added to the roster for that role or someone already on the roster has to come into it. What we still don't know is how the dynamic of Wiggins Town and Lavine works out. those guys could be a deadly group of scorers.
I think the league is generally the same. There are just a lot of really good PG's now. At the end of the day your primary ball handler needs to be able to break down the defense and score the ball or setup teammates. Ricky can setup teammates, but can't score and Wiggins can score, but can't setup teammates off his drives. Whether it's a PG or wing it doesn't matter. All I know is there are a lot more PG's who can do it in the league right now and Fultz and Ball can do it while there are less wings/bigs who can be that primary playmaking guy and I don't think Tatum or Isaac can do it and Jackson is a maybe. So you have Lebron, Harden, Batum, Butler, Horford Giannis and Draymond as the only wings/bigs who averaged 5 APG's or more per game out of the 31 players who managed that feat this year. That's 23% of the top playmakers in the league. Ricky and Draymond are the only 2 in the top 10 who didn't score at least 15 PPG's and Draymond has a pretty good excuse for not scoring more next to Steph, Klay and Durant. It's not new to the league. The league has just transformed which positions players are most likely to do it. Either Wiggins has to step up by a lot on the playmaking front, we need to play like the Spurs offensively or you have to go get that guy and I think Fultz and Ball can be that guy. I would bank on either of them well before I would bank on Wiggins being able to do it and I don't think Thibs is gonna turn us into the Spurs offensively any time soon.
That well put Kahns. I get where you are coming from even better now. I'm not dying to get a scoring PG but I wouldn't complain about getting the next Lilliard or whatever either obviously. Are there any other guys in this draft you think could be that guy?
I was thinking the best thing that could happen this summer would be that I discovered the cure for cancer and it also stopped aging while making me rich so I could feed the hungry and party like Leonardo Dicaprio. (Maybe buy the Wolves while I am at it.)
Q12543 wrote:You don't HAVE to have a PG that is an elite scorer/playmaker to make a deep playoff run. However, you need someone who can perform this role. In fact, the bigger, the better. I'd much rather have a wing play this role than a PG. The Jordan/Kobe/LeBron/Wade's of the world have won a lot of rings. We're now seeing Kawhi Leonard blossom into the next elite play making/scoring wing.
The reason Thibs experimented so heavily with "point Wiggins" sets is because he knows a 6'8 uber athlete going down hill is far more dangerous than a 6'2 point guard. The issue with Wiggins is that he has a really long ways to go to become a better ball handler and play maker.
Wiggins will never be as good as the guys you mentioned from a playmaking standpoint. He'll get better, but not enough to the point that he's gonna be a point wing. His handle and playmaking just seem way too far behind where a typical good playmaker starts from for me to believe he's going to be a good option as a point forward. 6'2-6'4 guards still dominate the league offensively. You don't need to be 6'8 to do it at an elite level.
Won't disagree on your assessment of Wiggins and how far he has to go, but I think he can and will improve. I also think KAT is capable of eventually becoming an elite big man passer. Don't forget, he can put the ball on the floor too.
How many of those ball-dominant point guards you mentioned have won a title by the way?
Well are you title or bust or would you like to make the playoffs first? Curry and Kyrie won the last two titles and the likely 6 out of 8 teams that will advance in these playoffs have dominant PG's (Curry, CP3, Irving, IT, Lowry, Wall). I'm not good with math, but that seems like a large percentage.
