BloopOracle wrote:I mean it must not scare too many people because those are some decent players
Did you even listen to the JK podcast?
Well Jon basically said the same thing as Wolfson. To get guys you have to overpay because of a bunch of reasons. Honestly I don't think Thibs yelling or whatever is gonna keep many guys away. Wolfson brought up Gibson who likes Thibs. A few players are going to look at what Thibs did in Chicago and see he had plenty of guys of varying talents to play well for him. If people don't want to come play for Thibs that's fine because to some extent they probably aren't the guys that this team needs anyway.
What is going to keep guys away is the weather, percieved city life, a culture of losing, role on the roster (do you really want to play with 4 guys who need the ball to be successful).
The free agent discussion didn't reveal much of anything. JK just responded to listener questions about Hayward and said there was little chance he'd be interested in the Wolves. He eventually veered to Millsap who he thought was ideal but old. Then he said these are some guys who might be "attainable". Then mentioned guys like Gibson, Reddick, Jaymicheal Green etc. Doogie in his podcast mentioned JK and mentioned pretty much the same list. JK mentioned Thib's screaming could be a turnoff to some. He just made some general reference to a few guys questioning whether they could ever play for him. Nobody was mentioned so its hard to attribute much meaning to it. I also found JK's comments about Glenn not being happy with how the season turned out to be interesting. It sounds like Glenn is not only questioning the players but the coaching staff's ability to deliver their message to and connect with the players.
monsterpile wrote:FWIW on Wolfson's last podcast he said from what he has heard a few guys would come to the Wolves if they get better $ offers than other places.
T Gibson (loves Thibs obviously but preference is to stay in OKC)
JJ Redick
Patrick Patterson
Ugh now I can't remember but I think there was a 4th solid player.
He also said when Thibs and Layden met with Bazz for his exit interviews they indicated they would really like him back and see him as a piece of the future and they value him. Wolfson said the Nets are a team he could see offering him a big deal that would really test that which is obvious speculation.
He is having David Thorpe on his next podcast and he said Thorpe said the Wolves ran a college offense this year without creatively. Should be interesting to here what he has to say.
I'm not surprised by Thorpe's comment. Thibs has a long-standing reputation for running a pedestrian offense. That's another reason I didn't think he was the best choice for our team. The best coaches adapt to the players they have. We have a young potentially high-scoring roster. In my view, the best approach for the Wolves would be a creative, high-speed offense that turns our young guys loose like D'Antoni has done in Houston and did years ago in Phoenix. Yes, the defense needs to get better, but an effective, high-scoring offense would actually help our defense by putting pressure on the other team while also allowing us to outscore other teams in what is generally a high-scoring League.
Not impressed with the Wolves style offensively this season.
I'm also not impressed with David Thorpe. Let me guess... if the Wolves had one or two of the guys he trained at some point... he'd be a Wolves fan.
Something about that guy seems so slimy and self-serving when I hear him talk.
TeamRicky wrote:The free agent discussion didn't reveal much of anything. JK just responded to listener questions about Hayward and said there was little chance he'd be interested in the Wolves. He eventually veered to Millsap who he thought was ideal but old. Then he said these are some guys who might be "attainable". Then mentioned guys like Gibson, Reddick, Jaymicheal Green etc. Doogie in his podcast mentioned JK and mentioned pretty much the same list. JK mentioned Thib's screaming could be a turnoff to some. He just made some general reference to a few guys questioning whether they could ever play for him. Nobody was mentioned so its hard to attribute much meaning to it. I also found JK's comments about Glenn not being happy with how the season turned out to be interesting. It sounds like Glenn is not only questioning the players but the coaching staff's ability to deliver their message to and connect with the players.
yes Glen is getting his fill of passive aggressive comments out this offseason, seems like he is salty that we didn't win enough to attract free agents, every interview is basically him talking about his disgust and then ending every interview with a comment about how he appreciates the long view Thibs is taking.
Next year is the most blatantly obvious put up or shut up year ever for us, from those who have disliked Thibs from the start (LST) to those like me who have given Thibs the benefit of the doubt on virtually everything this season, to Glen himself. It's playoffs or bust, 40+ wins or even I will be calling for his job
TeamRicky wrote:The free agent discussion didn't reveal much of anything. JK just responded to listener questions about Hayward and said there was little chance he'd be interested in the Wolves. He eventually veered to Millsap who he thought was ideal but old. Then he said these are some guys who might be "attainable". Then mentioned guys like Gibson, Reddick, Jaymicheal Green etc. Doogie in his podcast mentioned JK and mentioned pretty much the same list. JK mentioned Thib's screaming could be a turnoff to some. He just made some general reference to a few guys questioning whether they could ever play for him. Nobody was mentioned so its hard to attribute much meaning to it. I also found JK's comments about Glenn not being happy with how the season turned out to be interesting. It sounds like Glenn is not only questioning the players but the coaching staff's ability to deliver their message to and connect with the players.
yes Glen is getting his fill of passive aggressive comments out this offseason, seems like he is salty that we didn't win enough to attract free agents, every interview is basically him talking about his disgust and then ending every interview with a comment about how he appreciates the long view Thibs is taking.
Next year is the most blatantly obvious put up or shut up year ever for us, from those who have disliked Thibs from the start (LST) to those like me who have given Thibs the benefit of the doubt on virtually everything this season, to Glen himself. It's playoffs or bust, 40+ wins or even I will be calling for his job
We've got bigger problems than Thibs if we don't win 40 games with Wiggins in year 4 and Towns in year 3. If they don't get the defensive message from a coach like Thibs that far into their career that's a huge problem.
TeamRicky wrote:The free agent discussion didn't reveal much of anything. JK just responded to listener questions about Hayward and said there was little chance he'd be interested in the Wolves. He eventually veered to Millsap who he thought was ideal but old. Then he said these are some guys who might be "attainable". Then mentioned guys like Gibson, Reddick, Jaymicheal Green etc. Doogie in his podcast mentioned JK and mentioned pretty much the same list. JK mentioned Thib's screaming could be a turnoff to some. He just made some general reference to a few guys questioning whether they could ever play for him. Nobody was mentioned so its hard to attribute much meaning to it. I also found JK's comments about Glenn not being happy with how the season turned out to be interesting. It sounds like Glenn is not only questioning the players but the coaching staff's ability to deliver their message to and connect with the players.
yes Glen is getting his fill of passive aggressive comments out this offseason, seems like he is salty that we didn't win enough to attract free agents, every interview is basically him talking about his disgust and then ending every interview with a comment about how he appreciates the long view Thibs is taking.
Next year is the most blatantly obvious put up or shut up year ever for us, from those who have disliked Thibs from the start (LST) to those like me who have given Thibs the benefit of the doubt on virtually everything this season, to Glen himself. It's playoffs or bust, 40+ wins or even I will be calling for his job
We've got bigger problems than Thibs if we don't win 40 games with Wiggins in year 4 and Towns in year 3. If they don't get the defensive message from a coach like Thibs that far into their career that's a huge problem.
Yes. That's true. Those two together in years 3 and 4 should be able to win. The "too young" excuse is going to start to ring hollow. And the transformation must begin defensively.
That being said... why isn't Thibs' message getting through (if that happens)?
Unless both KAT and Wiggins are both dogs (doesn't seem to be the case), then a lot of that hollow message has to fall on the coach and architect of the team.
I personally think they did get his message loud and clear during the season, those two were both putting up monster stat lines WITH at least average defense during our midseason month+ stretch where we were playing some of the best team defense in the NBA. We were super thin on supporting talent and chasing streaking teams during that stretch and Belly went down and it all fell apart. Towns and Wiggins especially were exhausted and finally let up. Next year with the system in place and talent around them to help everything should work and we end up with a great season.
BloopOracle wrote:I personally think they did get his message loud and clear during the season, those two were both putting up monster stat lines WITH at least average defense during our midseason month+ stretch where we were playing some of the best team defense in the NBA. We were super thin on supporting talent and chasing streaking teams during that stretch and Belly went down and it all fell apart. Towns and Wiggins especially were exhausted and finally let up. Next year with the system in place and talent around them to help everything should work and we end up with a great season.
Thibs did not have to play those guys as many minutes as he did. It's funny how Aldrich, Rush, and Jordan Hill were just fine as supporting cast players the year before this one, but then suddenly Aldrich and Hill especially simply weren't good enough for Thibs. I mean Hill averaged 21 MPG on a 45 win team last season and now he's not good enough to get minutes on a 30-win team?
In my opinion Coach got his message across, but then sabotaged it by playing those guys too many minutes and then not benching them when their defense sucked (which would have been negative reinforcement for poor habits and cut their minutes back. He never did the old sit a guy for 2 minutes to send a message, then send him back in trick. Pop does this all the time).
BloopOracle wrote:I personally think they did get his message loud and clear during the season, those two were both putting up monster stat lines WITH at least average defense during our midseason month+ stretch where we were playing some of the best team defense in the NBA. We were super thin on supporting talent and chasing streaking teams during that stretch and Belly went down and it all fell apart. Towns and Wiggins especially were exhausted and finally let up. Next year with the system in place and talent around them to help everything should work and we end up with a great season.
Thibs did not have to play those guys as many minutes as he did. It's funny how Aldrich, Rush, and Jordan Hill were just fine as supporting cast players the year before this one, but then suddenly Aldrich and Hill especially simply weren't good enough for Thibs. I mean Hill averaged 21 MPG on a 45 win team last season and now he's not good enough to get minutes on a 30-win team?
In my opinion Coach got his message across, but then sabotaged it by playing those guys too many minutes and then not benching them when their defense sucked (which would have been negative reinforcement for poor habits and cut their minutes back. He never did the old sit a guy for 2 minutes to send a message, then send him back in trick. Pop does this all the time).
He didn't have to but we would have been even worse record wise, who knows maybe he feels they have to be on the floor and do it over and over that seems to be his theme. Rush is an average 3 point shooter and that's it GS made him look good, as far as Hill I would have liked to have seen him, from what I hear Hill was the only one of the roster who didn't show up to Thibs early preseason workouts and Tom must have held it against them. Aldrich I have no idea, it seems that Karl is going to be a Center so that must have knocked his minutes and I agree Tom should have sent a message to him in particular once in awhile.
Thibs playing the starters too many minutes has several negative consequences: (1) tired starters don't have the energy to play consistently hard on defense (I agree with LST on this); (2) it sends the wrong message to the young players when they don't play hard on defense, yet keep getting lots of minutes. Most players would prefer to put up good offensive stats and since there is no consequence to focusing more on offense than defense, Thibs talk of playing hard on defense falls on deaf ears. I'd really like to see Thibs bench players and cut back their minutes when they have glaring defensive lapses. (3) the bench players who don't get minutes get disengaged from the game; and (4) it might hurt our ability to attract free agents when they see guys like Cole Aldrich and Jordan Hill rot on our bench.
