Q12543 wrote:It seems to me that Thibs is putting more play making responsibility on Wiggins. He wants him to be Jimmy Butler 2.0 - but potentially even more potent. He also runs a lot of two-man action with Wiggins + KAT and LaVine + Dieng. All of this takes the ball out of Ricky's hands and forces him to be more of a floor spacer, which is not his ideal role.
The problem is that Ricky's heir apparent - Kris Dunn - is also not a floor spacer. Now, perhaps he develops a 3-point shot, but right now that seems a ways off.
The way Thibs is building this offense requires more of a 3 & D point guard like Derek Fisher was with the Lakers or Mario Chalmers with the Heat. The problem is Wiggins isn't nearly the play maker Kobe or LeBron were. And none of our current point guards have both the "3" and "D" as strengths.
We'll have to see how things evolve, but I'm pretty confident that Rubio is going to get traded eventually based on how Thibs is running the offense. The problem is we basically have a worse version of Rubio (worse for now at least) behind him.
I'm on the "worried about Thibs effect" train. Individually, this team is superior to last year. You can see definite areas where certain players have improved their games. Wig has taken the biggest leap and has improved his game in so many different ways (although he apparently was not very good at all last night), and Zach and KAT clearly also worked on thier game and have added some new wrinkles to their already enormous skills. And the management team added some key players (Aldrich, Rush, Dunn, Hill) who all performed well in different roles last year. Looking at the roster and individual players, this team should be much improved...but instead it has regressed. And I'm sorry...excuses like "teams were tanking at the end of the last year so our results were fools gold", or "they're pressing because they have something to play for now" just don't pass the logic test for me...way too much of a reach.
So the only direction I can logically point my finger for the regression is the biggest change this year...the coaching staff. And the fact that most of our losses are due to 3rd quarter (or in the case of last night, an entire second half) failings...the part of the game where coaches win or lose games by making in-game adjustments...again seems to incriminate the coaching staff. So while I think the coaching staff has to take a lot of the blame for this year's surprising (if not shocking) poor start, I don't know specifically what they need to do differently to right the ship. It could be any or all of the following:
1) Dial back the intensity, Thibs...both sideline behavior and whatever you are doing in the locker room at half time! Act a little more like the winning coaches out there, like Pop or Steve Kerr, or even the relatively controlled way you act post-game after another loss.
2) Let Ricky be Ricky. Ricky needs to be the guy with the ball in his hands facilitating...having a SF bringing the ball up court with Ricky in the corner is folly and doesn't play to the strengths of this roster.
3) Thibs comes here with a reputation of working his players too hard in practices during the season. There was some hope that he learned the error of his ways during his sabbatical year as he watched the practice style of other coaches, but frankly we don't know if he has changed his style at all. We haven't talked about it here, but could the second half collapses be due to our team having tired legs because of a brutal practice the day before? We all know how teams perform poorly on the second day of a back to back, and you might expect the same drop off the day after a Thibs-like intense practice.
Here's some more evidence that this team is performing way below expectations...they are the 4th worst team this season against the spread. Because of their enormous talent, the Wolves have become somewhat of a national darling, and a popular choice for the team to watch...having back to back ROYs will do that. Last night was a good example: any solid NBA analyst can see that Memphis is a better-coached and more successful team this year, and yet because of their star power and individual talent, the Wolves were favored by 3 last night in Memphis...what a joke! Misty saw this anomaly and profited from it. Fellow gamblers, don't miss out on this opportunity...as long as Thibs continues to stubbornly do the things he is currently doing, there is big money to be made betting against this hugely underperforming squad.
longstrangetrip wrote:I'm on the "worried about Thibs effect" train. Individually, this team is superior to last year. You can see definite areas where certain players have improved their games. Wig has taken the biggest leap and has improved his game in so many different ways (although he apparently was not very good at all last night), and Zach and KAT clearly also worked on thier game and have added some new wrinkles to their already enormous skills. And the management team added some key players (Aldrich, Rush, Dunn, Hill) who all performed well in different roles last year. Looking at the roster and individual players, this team should be much improved...but instead it has regressed. And I'm sorry...excuses like "teams were tanking at the end of the last year so our results were fools gold", or "they're pressing because they have something to play for now" just don't pass the logic test for me...way too much of a reach.
So the only direction I can logically point my finger for the regression is the biggest change this year...the coaching staff. And the fact that most of our losses are due to 3rd quarter (or in the case of last night, an entire second half) failings...the part of the game where coaches win or lose games by making in-game adjustments...again seems to incriminate the coaching staff. So while I think the coaching staff has to take a lot of the blame for this year's surprising (if not shocking) poor start, I don't know specifically what they need to do differently to right the ship. It could be any or all of the following:
1) Dial back the intensity, Thibs...both sideline behavior and whatever you are doing in the locker room at half time! Act a little more like the winning coaches out there, like Pop or Steve Kerr, or even the relatively controlled way you act post-game after another loss.
2) Let Ricky be Ricky. Ricky needs to be the guy with the ball in his hands facilitating...having a SF bringing the ball up court with Ricky in the corner is folly and doesn't play to the strengths of this roster.
3) Thibs comes here with a reputation of working his players too hard in practices during the season. There was some hope that he learned the error of his ways during his sabbatical year as he watched the practice style of other coaches, but frankly we don't know if he has changed his style at all. We haven't talked about it here, but could the second half collapses be due to our team having tired legs because of a brutal practice the day before? We all know how teams perform poorly on the second day of a back to back, and you might expect the same drop off the day after a Thibs-like intense practice.
Here's some more evidence that this team is performing way below expectations...they are the 4th worst team this season against the spread. Because of their enormous talent, the Wolves have become somewhat of a national darling, and a popular choice for the team to watch...having back to back ROYs will do that. Last night was a good example: any solid NBA analyst can see that Memphis is a better-coached and more successful team this year, and yet because of their star power and individual talent, the Wolves were favored by 3 last night in Memphis...what a joke! Misty saw this anomaly and profited from it. Fellow gamblers, don't miss out on this opportunity...as long as Thibs continues to stubbornly do the things he is currently doing, there is big money to be made betting against this hugely underperforming squad.
Good post. You bring up some good points. KAT and Ricky in particular seem to be affected the most by Thibs in a negative way. I too wish Thibs would dial it back.
I deleted my DVRd game last night, so saw none of it. What did Memphis do to Wig defensively, and how did Thibs react. I saw one play where it looked like Tony Allen was guarding Wig...is that right? If so, was Wig ineffective inside against Allen despite his big height advantage? And who on the Griz was quick enough to guard Zach if their SG was on Wig? I know Memphis is a great defensive team, but it seems like some of the matchups could have been exploited.
Or is the story merely that our guys didn't shoot well?
Zgoda writes in the Strib this morning that the Wolves have won 4 games this year by an average of 26 points, but are 0-5 in games decided in the final 5 minutes. Some might argue that not being able to close out games is a natural by product of our youth, but I don't recall end-of-game being a big issue last year...seems like we were middle of the pack, but maybe someone can prove me wrong on that.
Great coaching staffs can create close wins by outcoaching the opposing coach. I still hope Thibs is a guy that can be that guy who wins the coaching battle...he certainly has the track record to show he can be that guy. But so far it seems to be the reverse.
Some of us wondered if Payne would go back to the bench when Bazz came back, and we would just go with a shorter lineup. But from the box score it looks like Cole was the odd man out last night, only getting garbage minutes I guess I like that move by Thibs...Payne has been better than Cole as of late, and deserves to be rewarded.
If nothing else, Thibodeau's track record of winning basketball games is too damn good to already be calling for his head like some on here. We're 12 games in -- 12. Several of the team's losses should be wins, but this youthful group pissed them away by playing undisciplined basketball in second halves. Not to mention, they were without their best point guard for several games mixed in there, and despite Rubio not being himself so far, he's much better than anything else we have at the point guard position.
Also, you can't praise the players for three quarters of excellence and then shit on the coach for one quarter of mishaps. That isn't consistent analysis. Give credit where it's due, both good and bad.
Keep in mind that the team was 8-8 to begin last season before falling off a cliff. There is still a lot of time for this year's group to click, rattle off plenty of wins and make a playoff push. I believe the team we see in January will look a lot different than the one we're seeing in November, and I'm sure a lot of these anti-Thibs takes will too.
Great to have you back Cam!! As usual, a thoughtful well-supported response to those of us worried about Thibs. Please keep posting. Your participation makes this Board far more interesting and informative.
The average margin in our wins is +25 (118-93)
The average margin in our losses is -10 (98-108)
I tell you want, considering we are yet to beat a single quality opponent, Wolves record is spot on. People who say that we should have had a better record based our +/- are wrong. We aren't as good offensively as our numbers indicated and we are actually worse defensively than our numbers.
LST, Wig had one of those games where his first few shots didn't fall and then he fell into the malaise we sometimes saw in this first two years. For lack of a better term he seemed to be sleepwalking out there. Gawd I hope this isn't something we see recurring this year. He was totally disengaged after the 1st quarter. Very disappointing after the string of games he had put together.
