If Dunn starts for Wolves, don't deal for stopgap guard

[bleedspeed]

http://www.startribune.com/if-kris-dunn-gets-wolves-starting-job-don-t-deal-for-stopgap-guard/411599555/

Good read. I agree. I was not excited about the Jackson/Rubio trade idea because I want Dunn and Jones given the chance.

[Monster]

And yet when Rubio is avaialable to play Thibs plays him well over 30mpg. I think Dunn has come along as time has been going on but I don't think he is ready and it doesn't seem like Thibs think so either.

Why would the wolves want a bridge guard? (Assuming the reports are even correct) If you look at the Wolves right now the vet ball handler is Rubio. They don't have a vet guard to come off the bench to calm the troops or put up some shots or whatever. If they got the right guy it would still give minutes to both Dunn and Tyus eventually if the player was more of a combo guard. I think the reality is if someone offered anything/anyone of reasonable value that makes some for Rubio they would make the deal. I just don't see many teams willing to give up enough or the right players to make anything happen and I am ok with Rubio being moved at this point although I am fine with him staying also.

As for the the idea that they should give the reigns to Dunn to evaluate him and Tyus before this oncoming draft...it's a worthwhile point. Ideally Dunn one way or another (even if Rubio stays here) shows enough promise and Wiggins shows growth as a defender (like when he did a good job against Gallo the other night) and they end up with a nice player to put next to Towns in the front court. That's an admittedly rose outcome but one can dream...

[Wile E Coyote [enjin:17432808]]

Yeah, the Pistons/Jackson trade didn't make any sense to me for the reasons the article lays out nicely. If you are trying to free up minutes for Dunn, why would you trade for a youngish starting PG with a huge, long contract?

This is why the Dragic rumors are also weird. He is getting paid starters money for a long time ($19,217,900 in 2019/20).

This leads me to think that either (1) Thibs is worried about Dunn long term or (2) Wolves are trying to find a 3 team trade.

IMO Wolves need a starting PF. Does not have to be a big scorer as we already have 3 of those. But someone who can shoot a bit from the outside and defend stretch 4s on the perimeter. Basically a better, more consistent Belly. That is the type of guy I expect the Wolves to target in a Rubio trade.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yeah, the Pistons/Jackson trade didn't make any sense to me for the reasons the article lays out nicely. If you are trying to free up minutes for Dunn, why would you trade for a youngish starting PG with a huge, long contract?

This is why the Dragic rumors are also weird. He is getting paid starters money for a long time ($19,217,900 in 2019/20).

This leads me to think that either (1) Thibs is worried about Dunn long term or (2) Wolves are trying to find a 3 team trade.

IMO Wolves need a starting PF. Does not have to be a big scorer as we already have 3 of those. But someone who can shoot a bit from the outside and defend stretch 4s on the perimeter. Basically a better, more consistent Belly. That is the type of guy I expect the Wolves to target in a Rubio trade.

Agreed. I just think it's tough to find a partner that a) wants Rubio and b) has a player to give us that is of immediate help to us.

I read somewhere today that Chicago and New York are in the mix for Rubio. There is literally no one on New York's roster I'm interested in having here long term. And I have no idea why Chicago would want another non-shooter, but I'd do a deal if it involved Taj Gibson. He's not real stretch-y, but he gives us a hard-nosed defender at the 4 that knows Thibs' system. But again, I have no clue why Chicago would want Rubio.

Probably the more likely scenario is some combination of expiring contract(s) and a draft pick. Doper has brought up Rose before because his contract expires. If we somehow got him here, I'd waive his ass right away and not let him near our squad. Just take the hit this year and then make a big move this offseason.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Yeah, the Pistons/Jackson trade didn't make any sense to me for the reasons the article lays out nicely. If you are trying to free up minutes for Dunn, why would you trade for a youngish starting PG with a huge, long contract?

This is why the Dragic rumors are also weird. He is getting paid starters money for a long time ($19,217,900 in 2019/20).

This leads me to think that either (1) Thibs is worried about Dunn long term or (2) Wolves are trying to find a 3 team trade.

IMO Wolves need a starting PF. Does not have to be a big scorer as we already have 3 of those. But someone who can shoot a bit from the outside and defend stretch 4s on the perimeter. Basically a better, more consistent Belly. That is the type of guy I expect the Wolves to target in a Rubio trade.

Agreed. I just think it's tough to find a partner that a) wants Rubio and b) has a player to give us that is of immediate help to us.

I read somewhere today that Chicago and New York are in the mix for Rubio. There is literally no one on New York's roster I'm interested in having here long term. And I have no idea why Chicago would want another non-shooter, but I'd do a deal if it involved Taj Gibson. He's not real stretch-y, but he gives us a hard-nosed defender at the 4 that knows Thibs' system. But again, I have no clue why Chicago would want Rubio.

Probably the more likely scenario is some combination of expiring contract(s) and a draft pick. Doper has brought up Rose before because his contract expires. If we somehow got him here, I'd waive his ass right away and not let him near our squad. Just take the hit this year and then make a big move this offseason.

Was looking at the Knicks:

- I know people in the past dug Courtney Lee. He's not a wow stats guy and has bounced around and is 31. But, is he a "less is more" type that can be serviceable in 18 - 25 mpg? Or as a spot starter? That's the epitome of Lee's game right? Serviceable.

- Kyle O'Quinn. This is for you, Q. Isn't he Jeff Adrien v2.0 except he's actually pretty solid? 15/13/3 per 36 this season. 20 PER. A plus player when he's on the court. And a great contract... and only 26.

[Wile E Coyote [enjin:17432808]]

I read somewhere today that Chicago and New York are in the mix for Rubio. There is literally no one on New York's roster I'm interested in having here long term.

I actually like several Knicks players. Kuzminskas, Hernangomez, Lee, and O'Quinn are all decent depth guys. But I'm not sure there is a Knicks/Wolves trade that makes sense. As you said, I don't want Rose anywhere near this roster. Jennings and Rubio have bad history and would be somewhat redundant.

And I have no idea why Chicago would want another non-shooter, but I'd do a deal if it involved Taj Gibson. He's not real stretch-y, but he gives us a hard-nosed defender at the 4 that knows Thibs' system. But again, I have no clue why Chicago would want Rubio.

Well the Rondo experiment has been a complete bust. So they are probably trying to decide whether to try to save the season or blow it all up. Rubio would be an upgrade over Rondo for the Bulls. But for the Wolves I have absolute no interest in Rondo: he is cooked and a headcase. Taj might be OK, but he is 31 and a FA this summer. Might end up being a salary dump if he doesn't want to be here. I'd hope we can do better than that.

I think Denver is a place to look. Need a PG, have a lot of big man depth, one of their front office number crunchers is a former Canis Hoopus poster who loves Rubio. I'd be happy to get Chandler and play him as a small ball PF.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I read somewhere today that Chicago and New York are in the mix for Rubio. There is literally no one on New York's roster I'm interested in having here long term.

I actually like several Knicks players. Kuzminskas, Hernangomez, Lee, and O'Quinn are all decent depth guys. But I'm not sure there is a Knicks/Wolves trade that makes sense. As you said, I don't want Rose anywhere near this roster. Jennings and Rubio have bad history and would be somewhat redundant.

And I have no idea why Chicago would want another non-shooter, but I'd do a deal if it involved Taj Gibson. He's not real stretch-y, but he gives us a hard-nosed defender at the 4 that knows Thibs' system. But again, I have no clue why Chicago would want Rubio.

Well the Rondo experiment has been a complete bust. So they are probably trying to decide whether to try to save the season or blow it all up. Rubio would be an upgrade over Rondo for the Bulls. But for the Wolves I have absolute no interest in Rondo: he is cooked and a headcase. Taj might be OK, but he is 31 and a FA this summer. Might end up being a salary dump if he doesn't want to be here. I'd hope we can do better than that.

I think Denver is a place to look. Need a PG, have a lot of big man depth, one of their front office number crunchers is a former Canis Hoopus poster who loves Rubio. I'd be happy to get Chandler and play him as a small ball PF.

But Denver is not only battling the wolves for that #8 spot... they're both young teams on the same trajectory with a bunch of assets.

I think Denver makes moves. I just don't think it's with Minnesota... and I think it's for somebody bigger than Rubio. They have the assets to pull it off.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yeah, the Pistons/Jackson trade didn't make any sense to me for the reasons the article lays out nicely. If you are trying to free up minutes for Dunn, why would you trade for a youngish starting PG with a huge, long contract?

This is why the Dragic rumors are also weird. He is getting paid starters money for a long time ($19,217,900 in 2019/20).

This leads me to think that either (1) Thibs is worried about Dunn long term or (2) Wolves are trying to find a 3 team trade.

IMO Wolves need a starting PF. Does not have to be a big scorer as we already have 3 of those. But someone who can shoot a bit from the outside and defend stretch 4s on the perimeter. Basically a better, more consistent Belly. That is the type of guy I expect the Wolves to target in a Rubio trade.

Agreed. I just think it's tough to find a partner that a) wants Rubio and b) has a player to give us that is of immediate help to us.

I read somewhere today that Chicago and New York are in the mix for Rubio. There is literally no one on New York's roster I'm interested in having here long term. And I have no idea why Chicago would want another non-shooter, but I'd do a deal if it involved Taj Gibson. He's not real stretch-y, but he gives us a hard-nosed defender at the 4 that knows Thibs' system. But again, I have no clue why Chicago would want Rubio.

Probably the more likely scenario is some combination of expiring contract(s) and a draft pick. Doper has brought up Rose before because his contract expires. If we somehow got him here, I'd waive his ass right away and not let him near our squad. Just take the hit this year and then make a big move this offseason.

Was looking at the Knicks:

- I know people in the past dug Courtney Lee. He's not a wow stats guy and has bounced around and is 31. But, is he a "less is more" type that can be serviceable in 18 - 25 mpg? Or as a spot starter? That's the epitome of Lee's game right? Serviceable.

- Kyle O'Quinn. This is for you, Q. Isn't he Jeff Adrien v2.0 except he's actually pretty solid? 15/13/3 per 36 this season. 20 PER. A plus player when he's on the court. And a great contract... and only 26.

Yes, I like Courtney Lee, you could convince me on that one. Kyle O'Quinn....great box score numbers on a per minute basis, but crappy +/- guy and you have to wonder why he's never been able to get more than limited minutes. Is he really much of an upgrade over Aldrich? Or Bjelly?

[AbeVigodaLive]

Yeah, the Pistons/Jackson trade didn't make any sense to me for the reasons the article lays out nicely. If you are trying to free up minutes for Dunn, why would you trade for a youngish starting PG with a huge, long contract?

This is why the Dragic rumors are also weird. He is getting paid starters money for a long time ($19,217,900 in 2019/20).

This leads me to think that either (1) Thibs is worried about Dunn long term or (2) Wolves are trying to find a 3 team trade.

IMO Wolves need a starting PF. Does not have to be a big scorer as we already have 3 of those. But someone who can shoot a bit from the outside and defend stretch 4s on the perimeter. Basically a better, more consistent Belly. That is the type of guy I expect the Wolves to target in a Rubio trade.

Agreed. I just think it's tough to find a partner that a) wants Rubio and b) has a player to give us that is of immediate help to us.

I read somewhere today that Chicago and New York are in the mix for Rubio. There is literally no one on New York's roster I'm interested in having here long term. And I have no idea why Chicago would want another non-shooter, but I'd do a deal if it involved Taj Gibson. He's not real stretch-y, but he gives us a hard-nosed defender at the 4 that knows Thibs' system. But again, I have no clue why Chicago would want Rubio.

Probably the more likely scenario is some combination of expiring contract(s) and a draft pick. Doper has brought up Rose before because his contract expires. If we somehow got him here, I'd waive his ass right away and not let him near our squad. Just take the hit this year and then make a big move this offseason.

Was looking at the Knicks:

- I know people in the past dug Courtney Lee. He's not a wow stats guy and has bounced around and is 31. But, is he a "less is more" type that can be serviceable in 18 - 25 mpg? Or as a spot starter? That's the epitome of Lee's game right? Serviceable.

- Kyle O'Quinn. This is for you, Q. Isn't he Jeff Adrien v2.0 except he's actually pretty solid? 15/13/3 per 36 this season. 20 PER. A plus player when he's on the court. And a great contract... and only 26.

Yes, I like Courtney Lee, you could convince me on that one. Kyle O'Quinn....great box score numbers on a per minute basis, but crappy +/- guy and you have to wonder why he's never been able to get more than limited minutes. Is he really much of an upgrade over Aldrich? Or Bjelly?

I honestly don't know much about O'Quinn other than he has a beard. BUT...

According to basketballreference.com... he has the Knicks 2nd best ORtg (behind Lee) and best DRtg.

His DBPM is 3.1. It's been a positive every season so far. Right in line with Aldrich who you noted... but who has fallen out of favor it would seem recently in rotation minutes. Maybe because he's worthless on offense? Aldrich is at only 7.1 points per 36.

O'Quinn has also had a positive VORP every season. And maybe the biggest thing I see... he's having his best season after signing a 4-year deal. Maybe he has even more room to improve?

Just some random thoughts... as noted... I haven't studied his game beyond the boxscore.

[Monster]

I've watched a decent chunk of O'Quinn over the years. The guys can play. He is another success decent player Phil brought in. Basically he is Somethingg like Aldrich except he has a Jumper and much more of a threat to score which isn't saying a lot compared to Aldrich. He seems to be a bit more of a bouncy athlete in how he moves. His final year is a player option and it seems pretty likely he would opt out of that if he is healthy. Salaries wouldn't make it work but I would do a Rubio for O'Quinn he is the type of big this team could use.

Wasn't Willie a guy Bleed wanted? The guy has been pretty productive this year. In the time I have seen him play he looks like a worthwhile guy and he is like 22. If Tyus wasn't looking plenty useful I would be upset we didn't listen to Bleed or whoever it was that was pounding the draft table for him.

The reality is these types of guys are players good front offices are able to find without giving up much of anything. If Phil can get these guys I think Thibs and Layden can find another useful young big in the near future.

Again part of the problem with some of the Rubio deals is he makes a starter salary. It's not just finding a fit of who the team wants to give up for Rubio that the Wolves would want it's also matching salaries. That can be a significant problem.