Wolves Young Core

[AbeVigodaLive]

Go get Serge Ibaka. I think he'd be my No. 1 target this off-season.

Would be a helpful addition.

But he'd probably cost about 4 yr/$120M+, right?

Anywhere from 4/80 to 4/100 sounds about right. Doubt he gets more than that even with some teams willing to spend. Tough to gauge at the moment. And yes, I'd be in on him for that price.

Unless the market has already changed significantly from last offseason (it probably will be tempered some), I don't see how Ibaka settles for less $20M per year. Although my $120M number might not even be possible. I don't know.

I just see him being offered the max.

I agree with the first part of your post. I don't see Ibaka taking less than $20M per, especially considering what Bismack Biyombo ($18M per) and Timofey Mosgov ($16M per) got last summer. You could also throw in Tristan Thompson's $16.5M per as a comparison. He's vastly superior than them in my view and the market should be stronger for him.

I don't believe he can get a max contract, though. I don't think he's a comparable commodity to the likes of Al Horford or obviously Kevin Durant. Paul Millsap should join them as a max contract this off-season. Even the best agent only has so much bargaining power. Ibaka is a tier (or two depending on how you rank players) behind them.

Didn't guys like Chandler Parsons get max deals though? That's what I was using as a comparison.

He did, but it was "only" 4/94 with the cap spiking up. And Parsons, when healthy, is a pretty good player at a relatively thin position.

Hence, my comment about $120M for Ibaka might be impossible...

I think we basically agree. I just see Ibaka being such a rare breed, with a proven track record of success, that he's getting a very large contract. And interest from multiple teams.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I don't think the deals for secondary guys will be as big this off season. Last off season was performed with the knowledge the cap was going to take another jump so you could get guys on a somewhat discount because there was another jump coming this off season. There isn't a jump after this year. What you pay has a bigger hit on your cap than last summer. A max for Millsap for example is now 35% of your cap. Ibaka may still get 20 million, but I think overall less money will be doled out this summer.

[Monster]

I don't think the deals for secondary guys will be as big this off season. Last off season was performed with the knowledge the cap was going to take another jump so you could get guys on a somewhat discount because there was another jump coming this off season. There isn't a jump after this year. What you pay has a bigger hit on your cap than last summer. A max for Millsap for example is now 35% of your cap. Ibaka may still get 20 million, but I think overall less money will be doled out this summer.

People say stuff like this before every offseason and then teams spend plenty of money. The cap is still going up this year and plenty of guys that aren't stars are going to get paid. I get your rationale but I don't have much faith in the idea teams are going to hold back if there is a guy that want to go after. There is a lot more precident for them to do spend than not. If teams still spend this year it could still be a value contract a couple years down the line.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Lip, I had to leave the board for similar reasons (not fun, too combative, etc.) so I can certainly empathize with your reasoning, though I think the relationships I had with some posters at the time were far more broken and damaged. That's a credit to you for having a much more balanced approach than me and I think I speak for everyone that's ever read your posts when I say you are appreciated here and your value is not ignored.

I'll miss your insight on all topics and our back-and-forth while you're gone, but I do hope you return when you feel refreshed and ready. Until then, drink a few for me and let's say a prayer -- or three -- for our Wolves to get back on track. Were they ever on track? Oh, boy...

Here, here.....Very sad day indeed. Hope to see Lip back in the future. May be if this team ever starts winning again!

[WildWolf2813]

I hate to say it, but I don't believe in this core. I don't have anything to go on to prove that they're figuring it out. Yeah they're 21 year old kids, but in 3 years not only will they still be young as hell, they'll probably add younger rookies. At some point, we can't keep judging them on their dunks or how they look or how many points they score. I don't care if they score 10 a night as opposed to 20 as long as they win and they're not doing that. Too many teams have risen, fallen and risen again while this franchise refuses to move out of the NBA basement. It sucks that these guys inherited the history of this team, but it's on them to get us out of it, not continue this for 3 more years and my big concern is that we keep adding young guys and resetting the ETA while the core doesn't get better.


The culture of losing is so embedded in this fabric of this team that I don't know what that turning point will be if there is one. When these guys have their Come to Jesus moment I'll believe in the future again.

[Coolbreeze44]

I have two major concerns with the supposed big 3. First, each one of them is a lightweight relative to their position and they are easily pushed around. Second is the redundancy between Zach and Wig.

When your best players are so soft, it gives me pause as to how effective they can become. They need to be surrounded by a bunch of Pek's or Matt Barnes types and we don't really have any of those guys. And it's becoming increasingly evident that both Andrew and Zach are shooting guards. Unless Zach could somehow manage to play large minutes at the 1, it's hard to see these two playing a ton of minutes next to each other while both being net positives. They are completely different players in their styles, but yet they need to occupy the same position on the floor. It's a problem.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I have two major concerns with the supposed big 3. First, each one of them is a lightweight relative to their position and they are easily pushed around. Second is the redundancy between Zach and Wig.

When your best players are so soft, it gives me pause as to how effective they can become. They need to be surrounded by a bunch of Pek's or Matt Barnes types and we don't really have any of those guys. And it's becoming increasingly evident that both Andrew and Zach are shooting guards. Unless Zach could somehow manage to play large minutes at the 1, it's hard to see these two playing a ton of minutes next to each other while both being net positives. They are completely different players in their styles, but yet they need to occupy the same position on the floor. It's a problem.

It'll be sorted out soon enough.

This is the feeling out phase. Things will change. We just don't know for certain how... and definitely don't know how they'll turn out.


[Note: I'd think LaVine will be the odd man out.]

[worldK]

I have two major concerns with the supposed big 3. First, each one of them is a lightweight relative to their position and they are easily pushed around. Second is the redundancy between Zach and Wig.

When your best players are so soft, it gives me pause as to how effective they can become. They need to be surrounded by a bunch of Pek's or Matt Barnes types and we don't really have any of those guys. And it's becoming increasingly evident that both Andrew and Zach are shooting guards. Unless Zach could somehow manage to play large minutes at the 1, it's hard to see these two playing a ton of minutes next to each other while both being net positives. They are completely different players in their styles, but yet they need to occupy the same position on the floor. It's a problem.

I see your point but i believe that wig and zach can co exist better in the future than they are doing now( they actually do okay now) The main problem is both being underweight in their positions. They are 21 yrs old so we should give them a few more years to grow into their body. On offense, they actually compliment each other well.

Its the defense, tougness and rebounding that is the problem with them. Ideally, we would want 1 wing that is elite at defense or an above average rebounder at the wing and is tough which neither one are at the moment. But its still too early. I believe wiggins and lavine can eventually be plus defenders at their position. What makes me hesitate to give up on either one is that both have the talent to be elite at their positions in due time. Both are gymrats, hard workers and good guys who improved every year. No reason to think they cant reach their full potential.

The solution is to add toughness around them and towns. Rubio and dieng while they compete hard are lightweights themselves at their positions. Its easier said than done to surround the core 3 with tough guys but i will rather go that route than having to choose between wiggins and lavine now when we dont have to.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I have two major concerns with the supposed big 3. First, each one of them is a lightweight relative to their position and they are easily pushed around. Second is the redundancy between Zach and Wig.

When your best players are so soft, it gives me pause as to how effective they can become. They need to be surrounded by a bunch of Pek's or Matt Barnes types and we don't really have any of those guys. And it's becoming increasingly evident that both Andrew and Zach are shooting guards. Unless Zach could somehow manage to play large minutes at the 1, it's hard to see these two playing a ton of minutes next to each other while both being net positives. They are completely different players in their styles, but yet they need to occupy the same position on the floor. It's a problem.

I see your point but i believe that wig and zach can co exist better in the future than they are doing now( they actually do okay now) The main problem is both being underweight in their positions. They are 21 yrs old so we should give them a few more years to grow into their body. On offense, they actually compliment each other well.

Its the defense, tougness and rebounding that is the problem with them. Ideally, we would want 1 wing that is elite at defense or an above average rebounder at the wing and is tough which neither one are at the moment. But its still too early. I believe wiggins and lavine can eventually be plus defenders at their position. What makes me hesitate to give up on either one is that both have the talent to be elite at their positions in due time. Both are gymrats, hard workers and good guys who improved every year. No reason to think they cant reach their full potential.

The solution is to add toughness around them and towns. Rubio and dieng while they compete hard are lightweights themselves at their positions. Its easier said than done to surround the core 3 with tough guys but i will rather go that route than having to choose between wiggins and lavine now when we dont have to.

Sorry to be debbie downer... but can't it be argued that a really high percentage of NBA players actually never reach their full potential?

I think it's dangerous to assume all three of the Big 3 are going to improve significantly and reach their potential while jelling on and off the court... it's wishful thinking. It's possible. And things would be great if they did.

But it's actually very rare to have happen to 3 guys entering the NBA simultaneously.

[Monster]

I'll say it again Wiggins has plenty of physical ability to be a SF on both sides of the ball.