Rubio vs. Teague-let's continue to monitor

[thedoper]

Rubio had 1 4th quarter shooting above 40% last year at 43%. This was on 2 attempts where he had basically given up shooting in the 4th. The rest of his career saw 4 seasons shooting below 30% and one in the mid 30%. The "excuses" exist along with Ricky's historically bad shooting at the end of games. He was never the only reason the team has been shit in the 4th in all of his seasons here, but having a ball dominant player who is zero threat to score is problematic and majorly impacts team play when you need a basket. His defense may have been fine (other than last year statistically) in the 4th but it certainly never lead to wins for us. The legacy of our Rubio-lead teams was blowing leads in the 4th. However much we want to pin that on Ricky is up to a bit of perception. But his inability to score when it matters doesn't paint a glowing picture for him or his contributions to winning, I can't see how it ever will.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

The whole spacing thing is hard to quantify. If you look at the last couple of Wolves wins, I don't believe we have magically solved the spacing issue with Teague's presence and Rubio's absence.

- Crawford's 3 against Utah. He had a guy right in his face. There was literally no space. In fact, that whole quarter we had to rely on his heroics versus some mythical offense where we had all this space to work with because of Teague's shooting. Utah's defense was stifling and we had to rely on a 37 year old dude to manufacture offense out of nothing.

- KAT's go-ahead bucket last night to make it 112-110: Butler ran into a brick wall in the lane, then he kicked it out to KAT, who in turn ran into a brick wall in the lane and threw up a soft runner over two Thunder players that went in. Again, where was all the space?

- Wiggins' game winner....Full court end of game play that would have probably been run the exact same way with Rubio here. Basically Teague wasn't even involved.

Rubio has figured out how to get the ball to people and create space in unique ways throughout his entire career. Coaches have also figured out ways to utilize Rubio in such a way as to mitigate his shooting.

I won't argue that Rubio is better than Teague (again, I put them in the same tier of PG), but this idea that we suddenly have more space to work with in crunch time and that's what has led to these two wins simply doesn't pass the eye test.

The 3 plays you mention have nothing to do with proper court spacing in crunch time. Crawford's 3 was a set play for him. How many inbounds plays do you see at the end of the game that result in a wide open look? They're usually contested and regardless that has nothing to do with spacing that would be created with other shooters on the floor. It's one action. Set a screen to get him a look in the corner. You could have put Tony Allen in the other corner and it wouldn't have impacted the play.

The Wiggins half court shot wasn't even a play. It was a scramble that worked out for us. Spacing doesn't matter when you are chucking up a 35 footer in transition at the buzzer.

Even the Butler, Towns play wasn't a spacing issue. Butler's own defender shut him down and KAT had to pump fake the closeout guy (due to Towns spacing the floor) and guess what happens when you drive the lane in that scenario? The help defenders step up. There wasn't time on the shot clock for him to pass to the open man that resulted from the defense helping. Towns' spacing opens up the driving lane because his defender flies by on the closeout and he draws the help defenders which happens on every drive defended by a competent defense. Butler getting shut down by his own guy isn't a spacing issue.

None of those 3 plays really had anything to do with spacing. They were all defended how an NBA team would normally defend in those situations. What we can see though is it is not 4v5 for the 4th quarter. The other team can't just go under every screen and play back 5ft and dare any of our ball handlers to shoot the ball. They have to play normal NBA defense which we haven't seen to close out games in a while. We have the offensive firepower to overcome a traditional defense. We didn't when the other team got to play off one of our guys to either help or force him into a tougher offensive play. If you see Teague's defender completely leaving him alone or playing way off him then I can see the argument for no difference, but I haven't seen that happen yet. Ricky and Westbrook weren't making the defensive plays for their teams in those games.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

That's my whole point Khans, these scoring plays that have won us games have nothing to do with proper spacing because of Jeff Teague's presence. We have won on tough, well contested shots and a heave.

[Monster]

How many days until we can trade Teague for Bledsoe?

I did think of that when I saw they are wanting to deal Bledsoe but I'll stick with Teague because Bledsoe every other year misses about half the games in the season. Teague has missed like 16 games in his whole career.

[Monster]

Teague's ability to get past most players on the floor is a pretty nice thing to have. His offensive numbers look pretty good when you consider his fairly low 18% usuage rate. Rubio is averaging 4.3 turnovers a game.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Teague's ability to get past most players on the floor is a pretty nice thing to have. His offensive numbers look pretty good when you consider his fairly low 18% usuage rate. Rubio is averaging 4.3 turnovers a game.

Yeah, Ricky is turning the ball over at a much higher rate than before...another three TOs last night in a loss to the surprising Clippers. And Teague was also not very good at all last night against the Pacers. Maybe what we are learning is that PG is a difficult position in which to adjust to a new team, and perhaps both Teague and Ricky are going through some adjustment issues. Teague has been significantly outplayed by his opposing PG in all four games so far, including his game against Ricky (the one game he played well in he was matched against Westbrook, so no shame in being outplayed there). The jury is still way out on this PG swap, but here's one thing I know...Thibs didn't enter into a bigger and longer contract with an older PG in order for him to be outplayed every night. I'm going to chalk it up to Teague's adjusting to new teammates, and let the dust settle on this debate before reaching any conclusions.

[Monster]

Teague's ability to get past most players on the floor is a pretty nice thing to have. His offensive numbers look pretty good when you consider his fairly low 18% usuage rate. Rubio is averaging 4.3 turnovers a game.

Yeah, Ricky is turning the ball over at a much higher rate than before...another three TOs last night in a loss to the surprising Clippers. And Teague was also not very good at all last night against the Pacers. Maybe what we are learning is that PG is a difficult position in which to adjust to a new team, and perhaps both Teague and Ricky are going through some adjustment issues. Teague has been significantly outplayed by his opposing PG in all four games so far, including his game against Ricky (the one game he played well in he was matched against Westbrook, so no shame in being outplayed there). The jury is still way out on this PG swap, but here's one thing I know...Thibs didn't enter into a bigger and longer contract with an older PG in order for him to be outplayed every night. I'm going to chalk it up to Teague's adjusting to new teammates, and let the dust settle on this debate before reaching any conclusions.

That's a fair post LST. I know I am basically defending Teague at every turn but honestly I feel a bit bad for him both in reality and in the cyperworld. Lol Some people have said all he does is offer scoring and if he isn't doing that he offers nothing. His per 36 numbers so far give him more steals per game and only a half an assist less than Rubio so it's not like he isn't doing anything else. You said it well that it's gonna take time. Teague has a complimentary game to him (compared to Rubio's resume) but he has spent much of his career as the PG running the team. He hasn't hit the ground running so far. Plenty of other teams with some significant changes haven't exactly figured it out from the jump either. Like Jon K has been saying if teams that LeBron goes to are around .500 the first 20 games why do we expect these wolves to just figure it all out espcially with fewer preseason games and a trip to China?

[TheFuture]

https://twitter.com/natetykwinski/status/923330170211020800Jeff Teague's impressive defense..

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

https://twitter.com/natetykwinski/status/923330170211020800Jeff Teague's impressive defense..

Ouch...that's a clip remindful of the lazy Anthony Bennett pick of three years ago (remember?). So much in this quick glance at #0. We're ahead 15-10 in a bounceback game that we really need to win, yet he shows no effort at all. He matadors Towns' guy in a half-hearted attempt at help (nice on-ball defense by the way, KAT), and then stands flat-footed as his guy is left wide open...pathetic. I fear there is something going on mentally with Teague, because I have always looked at him as a hard-working guy. First, he pouts when Thibs takes him out of Game 1, and now this. Heck, he hasnt been great either, but just play Tyus if Teague isn't going to try...at least he'll put in the effort.

Botton line to date...5 games in, 5 times outplayed by the opposing PG. Not a prescription for success.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Ricky has not been great this season, but look at the offensive talent he's surrounded by....not nearly the weapons he'd have here. At least the guy tries hard and puts his heart into the game. Teague has been damn near ambivalent.