I never stated that we wouldve been great this year. It just would have kept with a vision, rather than trying to mesh two separate visions together. As currently constructed, we have a 2 year window to convince Butler to stay. If Butler, Teague, and Taj bounce, then we took 1 step forward, to go three steps back. I'd prefer keeping a 5+ window open, and build to overtake the league when the Warriors have to choose to drop people and LeBron finally winds down.
Belly is not a bad defender. Ricky,G,Dunn,Belly > Butler, G, Belly defensively. Further, I mentioned that we still had plenty of $$ to spend on a player or two (i left Taj out, did keep Crawford). Would that team make the playoffs in this west? Likely not. Are we in a better position in 2-3 years? I'm certain we would be.
If Wiggins and Towns still aren't ready to compete in years 5 and 4, respectively... 70 years of NBA history tell us they won't get there.
In other words, we would be screwed in both the Future Stay Young and Follow the Vision scenario and the Thibs Get Good Now scenario. Awesome!
I never stated that we wouldve been great this year. It just would have kept with a vision, rather than trying to mesh two separate visions together. As currently constructed, we have a 2 year window to convince Butler to stay. If Butler, Teague, and Taj bounce, then we took 1 step forward, to go three steps back. I'd prefer keeping a 5+ window open, and build to overtake the league when the Warriors have to choose to drop people and LeBron finally winds down.
Belly is not a bad defender. Ricky,G,Dunn,Belly > Butler, G, Belly defensively. Further, I mentioned that we still had plenty of $$ to spend on a player or two (i left Taj out, did keep Crawford). Would that team make the playoffs in this west? Likely not. Are we in a better position in 2-3 years? I'm certain we would be.
If Wiggins and Towns still aren't ready to compete in years 5 and 4, respectively... 70 years of NBA history tell us they won't get there.
In other words, we would be screwed in both the Future Stay Young and Follow the Vision scenario and the Thibs Get Good Now scenario. Awesome!
Pretty much. As has been the case for 3+ years now... the franchise's future depends mostly on Wiggins and KAT.
We've been waiting. Eventually, we'll have to concede whether it's going to work or not.
I never stated that we wouldve been great this year. It just would have kept with a vision, rather than trying to mesh two separate visions together. As currently constructed, we have a 2 year window to convince Butler to stay. If Butler, Teague, and Taj bounce, then we took 1 step forward, to go three steps back. I'd prefer keeping a 5+ window open, and build to overtake the league when the Warriors have to choose to drop people and LeBron finally winds down.
Belly is not a bad defender. Ricky,G,Dunn,Belly > Butler, G, Belly defensively. Further, I mentioned that we still had plenty of $$ to spend on a player or two (i left Taj out, did keep Crawford). Would that team make the playoffs in this west? Likely not. Are we in a better position in 2-3 years? I'm certain we would be.
If Wiggins and Towns still aren't ready to compete in years 5 and 4, respectively... 70 years of NBA history tell us they won't get there.
In other words, we would be screwed in both the Future Stay Young and Follow the Vision scenario and the Thibs Get Good Now scenario. Awesome!
Yeah, that's my worry as well. I'm halfway off the fence in the direction of the Stay Young and Follow the Vision. The idea that we are left with a Towns and Wiggins who aren't ready to contribute in 2 years is a very realistic scenario... I would have preferred the chance of Dunn, LaVine, Rubio, Wiggins, Towns, Belly, Dieng, Bazz, #7 pick, a big FA signing realizing potential and figuring it out by year 4,5 vs. the outcome of being left with Towns and Wiggins. Alas, that is not TheFuture any longer. But, now we're in a position where we cannot afford to lose Butler in two years. If we do ... oh my. Then are we looking at another long drought?
I never stated that we wouldve been great this year. It just would have kept with a vision, rather than trying to mesh two separate visions together. As currently constructed, we have a 2 year window to convince Butler to stay. If Butler, Teague, and Taj bounce, then we took 1 step forward, to go three steps back. I'd prefer keeping a 5+ window open, and build to overtake the league when the Warriors have to choose to drop people and LeBron finally winds down.
Belly is not a bad defender. Ricky,G,Dunn,Belly > Butler, G, Belly defensively. Further, I mentioned that we still had plenty of $$ to spend on a player or two (i left Taj out, did keep Crawford). Would that team make the playoffs in this west? Likely not. Are we in a better position in 2-3 years? I'm certain we would be.
If Wiggins and Towns still aren't ready to compete in years 5 and 4, respectively... 70 years of NBA history tell us they won't get there.
In other words, we would be screwed in both the Future Stay Young and Follow the Vision scenario and the Thibs Get Good Now scenario. Awesome!
Yeah, that's my worry as well. I'm halfway off the fence in the direction of the Stay Young and Follow the Vision. The idea that we are left with a Towns and Wiggins who aren't ready to contribute in 2 years is a very realistic scenario... I would have preferred the chance of Dunn, LaVine, Rubio, Wiggins, Towns, Belly, Dieng, Bazz, #7 pick, a big FA signing realizing potential and figuring it out by year 4,5 vs. the outcome of being left with Towns and Wiggins. Alas, that is not TheFuture any longer. But, now we're in a position where we cannot afford to lose Butler in two years. If we do ... oh my. Then are we looking at another long drought?
My dear friend, the drought never left us! We're still in it!
You just can't lose for 4-5 years straight and then flip the switch and you're good. That's my problem with the stay young plan. You're just putting them in the position to repeatedly fail and then hoping it just magically gets better with time. At least now we have a legit leader and star in Butler who will get us to the playoffs the next two years. And if the vets don't work out, they don't work out. That's why being able to dump them in 2 years is important. Hope for the best and have the ability to deal with the worst. I don't see Butler leaving a max on the table as long as we are making the playoffs. Our contending depends on Towns and Wiggins, but not our playoff contention. Butler does enough to elevate us to win against good competition with what they give us now. And that's with him not even playing great yet.
khans2k5 wrote:You just can't lose for 4-5 years straight and then flip the switch and you're good. That's my problem with the stay young plan. You're just putting them in the position to repeatedly fail and then hoping it just magically gets better with time. At least now we have a legit leader and star in Butler who will get us to the playoffs the next two years. And if the vets don't work out, they don't work out. That's why being able to dump them in 2 years is important. Hope for the best and have the ability to deal with the worst. I don't see Butler leaving a max on the table as long as we are making the playoffs. Our contending depends on Towns and Wiggins, but not our playoff contention. Butler does enough to elevate us to win against good competition with what they give us now. And that's with him not even playing great yet.
I agree completely, Kahns. Butler gives us a chance to make the playoffs we wouldn't have if we just went with Towns, Wiggins, Lavine and Dunn. Our two young talents will either finally get it over the next two years or they won't. But Jimmy's presence should lift the entire team and his competitiveness and smarts might even rub off on Towns and Wiggins to some extent. If we're still struggling in a year or two, then it's over.
I would argue that in the Western Conference, Jimmy Butler is simply not enough to get us in the playoffs. We won only 31 games last year. Butler by himself does not add over 10 wins to that total. He's not THAT good. And his game is increasingly dated, as he struggles to hit 3's in volume unlike the majority of his contemporaries that play his position. That means we absolutely need improvement from Wiggins/KAT and others to really ensure a playoff slot.
This is why I have us in the 38-42 win range. If we're lucky, that gets us an 8th seed, but most likely we're on the outside looking in again.
Q12543 wrote:I would argue that in the Western Conference, Jimmy Butler is simply not enough to get us in the playoffs. We won only 31 games last year. Butler by himself does not add over 10 wins to that total. He's not THAT good. And his game is increasingly dated, as he struggles to hit 3's in volume unlike the majority of his contemporaries that play his position. That means we absolutely need improvement from Wiggins/KAT and others to really ensure a playoff slot.
This is why I have us in the 38-42 win range. If we're lucky, that gets us an 8th seed, but most likely we're on the outside looking in again.
I agree that Butler isn't enough to get us to the playoffs. But I still think Towns and Wiggins along with Gorgui, Belly and Jamaal are good enough to combine with Butler and get us the 7the or 8th seed. I woudn't bet big money on it, but I'm still expecting a playoff appearance for the Wolves this season. Here's how I see the West ending up 1-10:
Q12543 wrote:I would argue that in the Western Conference, Jimmy Butler is simply not enough to get us in the playoffs. We won only 31 games last year. Butler by himself does not add over 10 wins to that total. He's not THAT good. And his game is increasingly dated, as he struggles to hit 3's in volume unlike the majority of his contemporaries that play his position. That means we absolutely need improvement from Wiggins/KAT and others to really ensure a playoff slot.
This is why I have us in the 38-42 win range. If we're lucky, that gets us an 8th seed, but most likely we're on the outside looking in again.
I agree that Butler isn't enough to get us to the playoffs. But I still think Towns and Wiggins along with Gorgui, Belly and Jamaal are good enough to combine with Butler and get us the 7the or 8th seed. I woudn't bet big money on it, but I'm still expecting a playoff appearance for the Wolves this season. Here's how I see the West ending up 1-10:
