The Wiggins Problem

[Monster]

It's not as preposterous as you might think Monster:

Career PER/WS48/TS%:
Gay - 16.7/.086/.533
Wiggins - 15.4/.054/.530
Green - 13.2/.073/.528

What is so different about these guys? Age, height, and combine vertical numbers can't continue to be used to extol the virtues of his potential. He's no longer a draft prospect.

Green's PER is below average for a pretty much any player. The guy hasn't been worthwhile for like 5 years until he started playing with LeBron.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

It's not as preposterous as you might think Monster:

Career PER/WS48/TS%:
Gay - 16.7/.086/.533
Wiggins - 15.4/.054/.530
Green - 13.2/.073/.528

What is so different about these guys? Age, height, and combine vertical numbers can't continue to be used to extol the virtues of his potential. He's no longer a draft prospect.

Green's PER is below average for a pretty much any player. The guy hasn't been worthwhile for like 5 years until he started playing with LeBron.

Those are career numbers above, so his time with LeBron is just a fraction of what went into it. The reason his PER is lower than Wiggins is because he doesn't shoot it as much (PER rewards volume scorers). I think that's a GOOD thing considering how inefficient he has been over the years. His WS/48 is better than Wiggins.WS/48 puts a higher value on efficiency and team defense.

I'm not suggesting that when it's all said and done, Green will have had the better career than Wiggins. I'm just saying that the comparison and trajectory are not nearly as preposterous as you imply. And that should be very, very troubling to any Wolves fan.

[AbeVigodaLive]

It's not as preposterous as you might think Monster:

Career PER/WS48/TS%:
Gay - 16.7/.086/.533
Wiggins - 15.4/.054/.530
Green - 13.2/.073/.528

What is so different about these guys? Age, height, and combine vertical numbers can't continue to be used to extol the virtues of his potential. He's no longer a draft prospect.

The scary thing with the comparison is seeing how Jeff Green stagnated.

He had a very promising 2nd season in the league:
16.5 ppg / 6.7 reb / 2.0 ast / 44.6% fg / 38.9% 3fg ...

But he "looked" so good at times. Offensively and defensively... at least on paper. Most people expected him to make another leap. He never did. To be fair, sitting out a season with a heart ailment might have had something to do with it. But even by then, the writing was on the wall -- Jeff Green was a tease.

That tease has always found him a home... and minutes. But his former teams don't seem to miss a beat when he moves on to his next home.

Wiggins this season (still early):
18.2 ppg / 4.0 reb / 1.9 ast / 44.1% fg / 30.7% 3fg



[Note: I didn't even know where Jeff Green played college hoops. It was Georgetown. It's interesting to note he was the same player as a junior as he was a freshman... statistically.]

[Monster]

It's not as preposterous as you might think Monster:

Career PER/WS48/TS%:
Gay - 16.7/.086/.533
Wiggins - 15.4/.054/.530
Green - 13.2/.073/.528

What is so different about these guys? Age, height, and combine vertical numbers can't continue to be used to extol the virtues of his potential. He's no longer a draft prospect.

Green's PER is below average for a pretty much any player. The guy hasn't been worthwhile for like 5 years until he started playing with LeBron.

Those are career numbers above, so his time with LeBron is just a fraction of what went into it. The reason his PER is lower than Wiggins is because he doesn't shoot it as much (PER rewards volume scorers). I think that's a GOOD thing considering how inefficient he has been over the years. His WS/48 is better than Wiggins.WS/48 puts a higher value on efficiency and team defense.

I'm not suggesting that when it's all said and done, Green will have had the better career than Wiggins. I'm just saying that the comparison and trajectory are not nearly as preposterous as you imply. And that should be very, very troubling to any Wolves fan.

I'm not sure why you are holding to this comparison but let's just agree to preposterously disagree.

[thedoper]

I guess we will have to keep him since he is untradeable and offers negative value. Everyday I'm more glad that Thibs is our GM.
Based on popular opinion here we could be losing with Ricky and Dunn and talking about their charisma as positive benefits to our team. Meanwhile we'd being pining for news of Zach's rehab and whether or not he could win a 3rd dunk contest in a row. Wiggins is in a shooting slump, no doubt. But he's played complimentary ball to us winning. That was our aim, it's working. Responding to funks players in any sport are in by trading them when their perceived value is sliding is precisely what horribly run teams do. Let's at least wait until Wiggins dominates a playoff game on national TV to trade him.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I guess we will have to keep him since he is untradeable and offers negative value. Everyday I'm more glad that Thibs is our GM.
Based on popular opinion here we could be losing with Ricky and Dunn and talking about their charisma as positive benefits to our team. Meanwhile we'd being pining for news of Zach's rehab and whether or not he could win a 3rd dunk contest in a row. Wiggins is in a shooting slump, no doubt. But he's played complimentary ball to us winning. That was our aim, it's working. Responding to funks players in any sport are in by trading them when their perceived value is sliding is precisely what horribly run teams do. Let's at least wait until Wiggins dominates a playoff game on national TV to trade him.

To be fair, I don't think many think he's a horrible player.

But some may think paying him about $30M annually could be a horrible contract.

[thedoper]

I guess we will have to keep him since he is untradeable and offers negative value. Everyday I'm more glad that Thibs is our GM.
Based on popular opinion here we could be losing with Ricky and Dunn and talking about their charisma as positive benefits to our team. Meanwhile we'd being pining for news of Zach's rehab and whether or not he could win a 3rd dunk contest in a row. Wiggins is in a shooting slump, no doubt. But he's played complimentary ball to us winning. That was our aim, it's working. Responding to funks players in any sport are in by trading them when their perceived value is sliding is precisely what horribly run teams do. Let's at least wait until Wiggins dominates a playoff game on national TV to trade him.

To be fair, I don't think many think he's a horrible player.

But some may think paying him about $30M annually could be a horrible contract.

Well there's lots of time for that discussion. When his contract actually impedes us making other moves this conversation seems more relevant. The trade partner will be Toronto btw. The ownership group there cares more about Nationalism and history than winning.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

At least we made it through 2 months this year before people went after him again.

[AbeVigodaLive]

At least we made it through 2 months this year before people went after him again.

Yep. Disgraceful.

Only giving the #1 pick 270 games to show legitimate signs of sustainable improvement to warrant a $146.5M contract? This board is so full of knee-jerk reactionary assholes.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

At least we made it through 2 months this year before people went after him again.

Yep. Disgraceful.

Only giving the #1 pick 270 games to show legitimate signs of sustainable improvement to warrant a $146.5M contract? This board is so full of knee-jerk reactionary assholes.

I get it. He's also one of the only 20-30 guys (20 two years ago and 31 last year) in the entire league who dropped 20 a night and going through last years list only Derozan, IT, Bledsoe, and Dragic are not either on a max or on their rookie deal and going to get a max. And Derozan signed for 8 total million less than his max over the whole term of the deal. IT was looking at a max before he got hurt leaving just Bledsoe and Dragic as the two guys who weren't close to the max. 2. Wiggins got par for the course in this league. He scores and scorers get paid. Improvement or not that was the deal he was getting whether it be from us or someone else with just one less year on the term. So your options are keep him at an overpaid price or lose him for nothing and have no resources to replace him outside of hitting on a late first round pick. I'd rather overpay a guy who can play than hope we hit on a pick.