monsterpile wrote:One thought about the Towns spin around having his back to the guy he was defending...one possible explanation is he was getting in position to rebound. I'm doubtful that was his intent but I suppose it's possible. The other day i was listening to a podcast and they brought up the point about sometimes the best thing you can do in some situations is not contest and get in position for the possible rebound. They said at times the optics are not good but there were times it's a smart play of the numbers. They also pointed out that you may be giving up and easy offensive rebound if you leave your guy. I remember people ripping Love for just getting position for a rebound this all those years. Maybe he wasn't just hunting stats after all and was making a smart play. :)
Obviously a successful possession results either in a TO or a Missed shot AND a rebound. So I agree but I disagree. The problem with the Love team Wolves was that no one would contest the shot inside. Whoever contests the shot, the other 4 should be blocking out and rebounding. With Love it was , just let him lay it up, maybe he'll miss and I'll grab a board. Not enough fouls. Just a little more defense and those 40 win Wolves would have been 45. meh.
Thanks lip. Was belly out again? It's good to hear Wiggins is taking a lot more 3s this season even if he's missing, too bad he can't be more consistent.
Count me in the Tyus over Teague camp. We should keep both this season but look to move Teague if Tyus keeps improving.
Our offense actually generated some good shots early in the game, but we flat out missed multiple wide open 3's. Meanwhile, Austin Rivers was going nuts on very well contested 3's. I think Louis Williams made a prayer or two as well. It just amazes me how teams shoot the ball against us.
That's the one thing I miss about LaVine....he was the one guy on our team that could just pull up in someone's face and knock down a 3. Crawford is close, but like LaVine, he struggles big time defensively. It seems like every team we play has one or two guys that are capable of just going nuts on us from beyond the arc, even when well guarded.
I think the Teague over-dribbling thing is a combination of Thibs and Teague himself.
Teague has a bit of that score first mentality, where he is always looking for that mis-match or crack in the defense that he can take advantage of. The result is a lot of probing off the dribble.
When Teague was playing on that 60-win Atlanta team, he had Horford and Milsap run a lot of action out of the high post, something we don't seem to do much of from Thibs. Thibs prefers to run things through his three perimeter guys and then for them to make a play. The result is a lot of clear outs, isolations, and over-dribbling. As the game wears on, we see fewer and fewer cuts and more isolations. It worked last night, but we've seen how bogged down it gets against better defensive teams.
Q12543 wrote:I think the Teague over-dribbling thing is a combination of Thibs and Teague himself.
Teague has a bit of that score first mentality, where he is always looking for that mis-match or crack in the defense that he can take advantage of. The result is a lot of probing off the dribble.
When Teague was playing on that 60-win Atlanta team, he had Horford and Milsap run a lot of action out of the high post, something we don't seem to do much of from Thibs. Thibs prefers to run things through his three perimeter guys and then for them to make a play. The result is a lot of clear outs, isolations, and over-dribbling. As the game wears on, we see fewer and fewer cuts and more isolations. It worked last night, but we've seen how bogged down it gets against better defensive teams.
Good breakdown Q. The way Towns sets screens would you run 2 man games with him play after play after play? Obviously I didn't watch Horford a significant amount but he just seems really good in all those areas. Sometimes Towns screens hardly effect the defense at all. The stats coming into this season had Teague as one of the best pick and roll players in the entire league. Taj is good in the screen game but obviously he isn't as dynamic offensively as either Horford or Millsap. Towns has the skill set to be devestating player but he just doesn't do it consistently. He is still a young player though it's something he can improve. I think I'd like to see them do more to utilize him as a perimeter shooter. That's Town strength right now and something this team really needs. The good news is Dieng seems to have found his stride and looking more effective playing in the 2 man game.
Monster, I agree that KAT sets terrible screens and a number of us have brought that up. What I don't understand is why Thibs doesn't run more action with KAT at the elbows, with multiple cutters/hand off actions. I actually think KAT has the skills to be an elite passing big man, but the majority of our offense is isolation or high pick and roll action (along with his half-hearted screens).
Horford isn't just a great screen setter. The dude makes plays and gets the ball to cutters. He does all the little things on offense and defense that KAT doesn't do. If ever there was a contrast between box score and non-box score skills, it's these two.
Horford is one of the best in the business at seeing screens. He might be one of the top screen assists guy in the league whereas we might be among the worst.
I think teague probes so much because he doesn't get any separation off a screen and he is too slow to see the opening and to afraid to thread a pass. He's careless with the ball but he is generally safe with the pass if that makes sense.
I don't think he's ever played with the type of athletes we have on this squad. He just needs to throw it up and he'll get some way assists and help our guys get easy baskets.
Q12543 wrote:Monster, I agree that KAT sets terrible screens and a number of us have brought that up. What I don't understand is why Thibs doesn't run more action with KAT at the elbows, with multiple cutters/hand off actions. I actually think KAT has the skills to be an elite passing big man, but the majority of our offense is isolation or high pick and roll action (along with his half-hearted screens).
Horford isn't just a great screen setter. The dude makes plays and gets the ball to cutters. He does all the little things on offense and defense that KAT doesn't do. If ever there was a contrast between box score and non-box score skills, it's these two.
I agree Q playing Towns at the elbow would be something interesting to see.
Yep Horford is pretty good at all kinds of stuff. One thing I really miss about Love's game was the way he could just make plays with screens went to the right spot and had enough game to beat guys both with his shot and then if they keyed on that too much get to the rim one way or another.
Part of the problem is Towns can really do almost anything offensively. It reminds me a bit of Cousins in that Cousins in some ways was too good at doing a lot of things for his own good and it led to inefficiency and a lot of turnovers. Cousins uncommon strength as a big is his ball handling and Towns is his shooting which helps Towns be a more efficient player. I think often Towns tries too hard instead of just making the right play and has too many options in his head. It's a bit of the same on the other side of the ball except his skill talent doesn't make up for his mistakes like it does on offense.
Q12543 wrote:Monster, I agree that KAT sets terrible screens and a number of us have brought that up. What I don't understand is why Thibs doesn't run more action with KAT at the elbows, with multiple cutters/hand off actions. I actually think KAT has the skills to be an elite passing big man, but the majority of our offense is isolation or high pick and roll action (along with his half-hearted screens).
Horford isn't just a great screen setter. The dude makes plays and gets the ball to cutters. He does all the little things on offense and defense that KAT doesn't do. If ever there was a contrast between box score and non-box score skills, it's these two.
Running more action with KAT at the elbows is exactly what Thibs should do. That's the vision I've had when calling for Thibs to run the offense more through KAT. He's our best long-range shooter and a very good passer.
But Thibs is stubbornly inflexible in his approach. He's trying to ressurect his glory days in Chicago when his team ran an isolation system through a dominant star PG named Derrick Rose. That's why he was obsessed with replacing Rubio and that's why he agreed to pay Teague $19 million a year for three years. The problem is that Teague isn't close to the offensive player Rose was back then. Moreover, the Wolves have multiple offensive weapons the Bulls didn't have and those weapons are terrible underutilized in Thibs glory days system. So we end up with an offense that is pretty easily stifled by good teams. As we all know, the really good coaches adapt to and get the most from the players they have. Thibs simply doesn't. Add to that his tendency to overplay his starters and the negative attitude he projects. That's why the Wolves will never reach their potential as a team under Thibs.
Q12543 wrote:Monster, I agree that KAT sets terrible screens and a number of us have brought that up. What I don't understand is why Thibs doesn't run more action with KAT at the elbows, with multiple cutters/hand off actions. I actually think KAT has the skills to be an elite passing big man, but the majority of our offense is isolation or high pick and roll action (along with his half-hearted screens).
Horford isn't just a great screen setter. The dude makes plays and gets the ball to cutters. He does all the little things on offense and defense that KAT doesn't do. If ever there was a contrast between box score and non-box score skills, it's these two.
Running more action with KAT at the elbows is exactly what Thibs should do. That's the vision I've had when calling for Thibs to run the offense more through KAT. He's our best long-range shooter and a very good passer.
But Thibs is stubbornly inflexible in his approach. He's trying to ressurect his glory days in Chicago when his team ran an isolation system through a dominant star PG named Derrick Rose. That's why he was obsessed with replacing Rubio and that's why he agreed to pay Teague $19 million a year for three years. The problem is that Teague isn't close to the offensive player Rose was back then. Moreover, the Wolves have multiple offensive weapons the Bulls didn't have and those weapons are terrible underutilized in Thibs glory days system. So we end up with an offense that is pretty easily stifled by good teams. As we all know, the really good coaches adapt to and get the most from the players they have. Thibs simply doesn't. Add to that his tendency to overplay his starters and the negative attitude he projects. That's why the Wolves will never reach their potential as a team under Thibs.
The thing that is werid he ran a shit ton of high post action with noah with the Bulls and noah was close to an MVP candidate because of it.
We also ran great sets last year with the double high post of towns and Wiggins. And ball entered to Wiggins and towns set the cross screen. I've been asking for this set all year.
Thibs has run a ton of high post action in the past but for some reason he has not this year
