Camden wrote:Ironically, I'd rather have both Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown -- both Boston Celtics -- over Andrew Wiggins. What a wild world we live in. Last season, I thought I couldn't get any more disappointed in Wiggins. I'm hitting new lows this season when it comes to him.
Just wait until that contract kicks in and they're trying to shed bench players and replace them with vet minimum guys to remain under the cap! Good times are coming!!
There will come a time in the not to distant future when the Wolves will have to give up good assets in order to unload him. We better hope the Wolves cut bait soon while he's still viewed as having potential, or bet on the longshot that he fulfills it I guess. Wiggins is Michael Beasley at this point in my eyes, but with a much higher price tag.
monsterpile wrote:The idea playing Bazz over Wiggins is seriously NUTS. MGH after what he has shown the last couple games? Sure Bazz? He is a worse version of Wiggins in every way possible. His hustle sometimes takes himself out of plays like it does with Towns. You may not like Wiggins defense but even as a Bazz guy I will tell you Wiggins is Better defender than whatever couple more rebounds Bazz night give you. Wiggins is like 30x the passer and that's partly because that area is often underrated here and mostly because Bazz is so bad there. I get the frustration with Wiggins but let's not get carrried away here.
Who said anything about playing Bazz over Wiggins? I'm talking about playing Bazz off the bench. I guess that probably means cutting into Wiggins' minures, but that's ok when Wiggins is as bad as he was against the Suns. It's about using our bench and Bazz is our only SF off the bench.
monsterpile wrote:I finished watching this game this morning. I knew the Wolves lost and the score so that matters when watching it back. Nomaly I don't know. I haven't read any of this thread yet.
Until that last foul Teague was absolutely terrific on both ends of the floor. That may have been his best all around game of the year.
I noticed a couple specific plays where Towns didn't do his job on the boards which was part of what led to the Suns dominance on that end. I don't mean to single Towns our but those plays I noticed where he didn't find a man to box out and Len got the board and one time it led to a outback for him which even though Towns didn't put a body on him it was a good play by Len.
I hope Butler is ok. I haven't heard what his injury was but most of the game he was really good. He took a couple I'll advised shots later in the game but man he did so much other good stuff throughout the game even while hurt the guy still did some good stuff.
I kept expecting to see the Wolves play horribly for long stretches. I didn't see that. For most of the game they played well. The downfalls of this game was rebounding and fouling jump shooters and to the extent both happened that was a bit fluky although the wolves are not a good rebounding team which is a hit weird. The Suns hit some tough 3's and made plays. They were really aggressive on defense for a chunk of this game. In this game they didn't seem overmatched. This was another game I thought the Wolves played better than they have in a couple wins. Honestly it was kind of a fun game. And now that many posters here probably think I am nuts I'll start reading the posts/threads of this board from the last couple days... lol
Yes, I'm now convinced you're nuts. :). Seriously I agree with you about Teague. He had a terrific game. He not only put up good numbers but he played with a lot of heart. That's why I can't get too mad at him due that foul at the end.
I do think you're getting close to nutsville pointing out several instances where KAT didn't block out. I can point to instances where Taj and others didn't block out. It's easy to find mistakes made by any player in any game because all players make multiple mistakes every game. If you are looking to explain the terrible rebounding deficit, look no further than our starting SF who had 1 rebound in 35 minutes guarded by the rookie Jackson. Or take a look at our backup PF who had 2 rebounds in 20 minutes. Or look at our starting PF who had only 2 rebounds. I'm definitely not blaming Teague. He had 3 blocks and I loved the way He played, but he's not a rebounder.
- It's not always prudent to simply extrapolate a bench player's production over 36 minutes... considering he's often on the court producing against other bench players.
- I'm very reluctant to give too much credence to stats accrued on bad teams.
- The league is changing so rapidly that certain types of guys are finding their skillsets less and less important... even during the fleeting last 4 seasons. Muhammad has a game that simply does not translate to the modern NBA. He's hit more than two three pointers in a game only 4 times in his entire career (257 games).
- You point to his 39.2% 3fg ... but neglect to mention he made only 20 total shots that season! And he went 5-6 in one game. So, he shot 33% (below average) outside of one game. And 31% for the other 372 three point attempts in his career.
- A non-passing, non-three pointing shooting offensive rebounding dynamo wing who plays subpar defense simply doesn't offer much value. NBA roster quality? Sure. But an everyday rotation guy for a winning team? Maybe not.
I was just responding to the comment that Bazz isn't NBA-caliber. I sure as hell don't want to rely on him as an everyday rotation player. I never wanted him on this team in the first place. But he's all we have right now and with the way Wiggins has been playing I think Bazz could actually help us with his scoring and rebounding.
I get the limited value of extrapolation. But note that Bazz has historically done better on a per minute basis the more minutes he gets.
- It's not always prudent to simply extrapolate a bench player's production over 36 minutes... considering he's often on the court producing against other bench players.
- I'm very reluctant to give too much credence to stats accrued on bad teams.
- The league is changing so rapidly that certain types of guys are finding their skillsets less and less important... even during the fleeting last 4 seasons. Muhammad has a game that simply does not translate to the modern NBA. He's hit more than two three pointers in a game only 4 times in his entire career (257 games).
- You point to his 39.2% 3fg ... but neglect to mention he made only 20 total shots that season! And he went 5-6 in one game. So, he shot 33% (below average) outside of one game. And 31% for the other 372 three point attempts in his career.
- A non-passing, non-three pointing shooting offensive rebounding dynamo wing who plays subpar defense simply doesn't offer much value. NBA roster quality? Sure. But an everyday rotation guy for a winning team? Maybe not.
I was just responding to the comment that Bazz isn't NBA-caliber. I sure as hell don't want to rely on him as an everyday rotation player. I never wanted him on this team in the first place. But he's all we have right now and with the way Wiggins has been playing I think Bazz could actually help us with his scoring and rebounding.
I get the limited value of extrapolation. But note that Bazz has historically done better on a per minute basis the more minutes he gets.
Sure. I get it.
I do think, however, based on his very limited (and increasingly irrelevant skillset)... many NBA teams wouldn't give him a roster spot regardless of his price tag.
Camden0916 wrote:Ironically, I'd rather have both Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown -- both Boston Celtics -- over Andrew Wiggins. What a wild world we live in. Last season, I thought I couldn't get any more disappointed in Wiggins. I'm hitting new lows this season when it comes to him.
To be fair those guys look like really good players. It's not just wiggins not progressing it's some guys playing well and better than expected right away. The league has a nice group of talent coming in. Ainge continues to look smart drafting those guys.
monsterpile wrote:The idea playing Bazz over Wiggins is seriously NUTS. MGH after what he has shown the last couple games? Sure Bazz? He is a worse version of Wiggins in every way possible. His hustle sometimes takes himself out of plays like it does with Towns. You may not like Wiggins defense but even as a Bazz guy I will tell you Wiggins is Better defender than whatever couple more rebounds Bazz night give you. Wiggins is like 30x the passer and that's partly because that area is often underrated here and mostly because Bazz is so bad there. I get the frustration with Wiggins but let's not get carrried away here.
Who said anything about playing Bazz over Wiggins? I'm talking about playing Bazz off the bench. I guess that probably means cutting into Wiggins' minures, but that's ok when Wiggins is as bad as he was against the Suns. It's about using our bench and Bazz is our only SF off the bench.
Well that's still taking away Wiggins minutes who is disappointing because of his draft status and his max contract coming up but still is a pretty good player if it wasn't about all that. Bazz has been terrible for a min contract guy. Hey I get where you are coming from to some extent. I also think your idea of throwing Bazz out there is like me you still have some hope for the guy. I assume you and others want to send Wiggins a message as well. If that's your angle why not throw MGH out there a guy that is undrafted fighting for his career that also will at least attempt to do all the things you want Wiggins to do pass defnd rebound and hustle? Bazz will hustle and rebound. I don't see Bazz as that much more of SF than MGH. My point is pining for Bazz makes no sense at this point. Playing a bench guy? Sure why not play MGH?
monsterpile wrote:I finished watching this game this morning. I knew the Wolves lost and the score so that matters when watching it back. Nomaly I don't know. I haven't read any of this thread yet.
Until that last foul Teague was absolutely terrific on both ends of the floor. That may have been his best all around game of the year.
I noticed a couple specific plays where Towns didn't do his job on the boards which was part of what led to the Suns dominance on that end. I don't mean to single Towns our but those plays I noticed where he didn't find a man to box out and Len got the board and one time it led to a outback for him which even though Towns didn't put a body on him it was a good play by Len.
I hope Butler is ok. I haven't heard what his injury was but most of the game he was really good. He took a couple I'll advised shots later in the game but man he did so much other good stuff throughout the game even while hurt the guy still did some good stuff.
I kept expecting to see the Wolves play horribly for long stretches. I didn't see that. For most of the game they played well. The downfalls of this game was rebounding and fouling jump shooters and to the extent both happened that was a bit fluky although the wolves are not a good rebounding team which is a hit weird. The Suns hit some tough 3's and made plays. They were really aggressive on defense for a chunk of this game. In this game they didn't seem overmatched. This was another game I thought the Wolves played better than they have in a couple wins. Honestly it was kind of a fun game. And now that many posters here probably think I am nuts I'll start reading the posts/threads of this board from the last couple days... lol
Yes, I'm now convinced you're nuts. :). Seriously I agree with you about Teague. He had a terrific game. He not only put up good numbers but he played with a lot of heart. That's why I can't get too mad at him due that foul at the end.
I do think you're getting close to nutsville pointing out several instances where KAT didn't block out. I can point to instances where Taj and others didn't block out. It's easy to find mistakes made by any player in any game because all players make multiple mistakes every game. If you are looking to explain the terrible rebounding deficit, look no further than our starting SF who had 1 rebound in 35 minutes guarded by the rookie Jackson. Or take a look at our backup PF who had 2 rebounds in 20 minutes. Or look at our starting PF who had only 2 rebounds. I'm definitely not blaming Teague. He had 3 blocks and I loved the way He played, but he's not a rebounder.
Sorry Lip I don't go far enough in communicating my analysis of what I saw from Towns. Notice I said those plays weren't to just single him out and they were the only ones I specifically saw. That's it. People complain about this team not winning and those plays whether from Towns or Wiggins or whoever is part of why this wasn't a win. You don't get outrebounded only because Wiggins only had 1 rebound which was an o-rebound putback or Towns doesn't box out a couple times etc. It was a team effort. I wasn't saying Towns sucked on the glass just that I saw some plays where I felt they were not executed and if he had done what he should do the Wolves would have secured the ball. Some games the gap isn't about on team rebounding that but some balls bouncing one way or Some other game flow which I think both were factors in this game. A great example was that big block Towns had on the baseline where he and Wiggins ended up tied up and therefore the Suns ended up with an easy layup after tracking down the ball in the corner.
