Game Report - Wolves v. Clippers

[Monster]

One stat that has been mentioned on this forum is how the 6ers lead the league in passes made. The Wolves have not fared well in that stat since Adelman's last season which is the farthest NBA.com has the tracking stats for passes. There could be some good news though. The Wolves seem to be moving in the right direction in that regard as they have increased that number every month and it seems like in general the league has stayed pretty much the same at the top. I bet it wouldn't take many guesses for posters here to figure out what team was at the bottom of the league in passes the last 3 seasons.

There are lots of fun stats to look into. For example the rate at which teams have drives this year is a pretty significant uptick over the previous seasons. It will be interesting to see if that trend continues all season. I would assume it will come down some.

[theloknesmonster [enjin:6672429]]

I find Towns increasingly annoying.

One reason might not be entirely his fault. It is the people in this town, and probably people across the league that crowned him so early. Those in town doing it likely did so because they have been so starved for someone to build around, so they just anointed him the next Wilt the Stilt by default.

His mannerisms are another thing. Just shut the eff up and play you prima donna. You are not a star. Work harder to become a great player, not just a brand who markets himself harder than he plays, and you probably won't even have to cry to the refs anymore.

I guess the main problem I have with him is how awful he is in our own end. This is probably hyperbole talking, but he is one of the worst defensive bigs we have had here ever. He flat out sucks ass.

On a positive note from last night. Jimmy Butler really won me over. He is easily my favorite player now. This designation was coming because I watch him play, and even if he is turning it over and missing shots, he is the driving force of this team game in and out. Last night though, he put the team on his back. Or maybe he just told the dead weight which was the rest of the team to get out of his way so he could finish the game himself.

Butler is absolutely the best player on this team by a mile. He is different than anybody else. He has something the rest of those guys will never have.

[Monster]

I find Towns increasingly annoying.

One reason might not be entirely his fault. It is the people in this town, and probably people across the league that crowned him so early. Those in town doing it likely did so because they have been so starved for someone to build around, so they just anointed him the next Wilt the Stilt by default.

His mannerisms are another thing. Just shut the eff up and play you prima donna. You are not a star. Work harder to become a great player, not just a brand who markets himself harder than he plays, and you probably won't even have to cry to the refs anymore.

I guess the main problem I have with him is how awful he is in our own end. This is probably hyperbole talking, but he is one of the worst defensive bigs we have had here ever. He flat out sucks ass.

On a positive note from last night. Jimmy Butler really won me over. He is easily my favorite player now. This designation was coming because I watch him play, and even if he is turning it over and missing shots, he is the driving force of this team game in and out. Last night though, he put the team on his back. Or maybe he just told the dead weight which was the rest of the team to get out of his way so he could finish the game himself.

Butler is absolutely the best player on this team by a mile. He is different than anybody else. He has something the rest of those guys will never have.

I share some of your frustration about Towns. I do think Towns gets hammered some nights and doesn't get calls so I give him a break sometimes but I hate the complaining to the refs most of the time and Towns does it way way too much.

Kekgeek brought up Noah playing from the elbows for Thibs and why Thibs doesn't do that with Towns. Based on some of the stuff I have seen from Towns I am not entirely sure he is ready to be a guy you run the offense through. He makes some puzzling decisions at times. When Noah really started to put up some really nice assist numbers he had been in the league for a few years. He was an incredible fantasy basketball player filling up the stat sheet! :) We expect so much from a Towns and Wiggins because clearly they have a lot of talent. Most of their impressive talent is more about getting their own shot. They haven't really figured out how to make players around them better...yet. I think both guys have grown in that area particularly Wiggins but they haven't figured it out yet. I get we all want them to figure it out now but these guys are still pretty young and not that experienced. It gets old hearing that but there is truth to it. Some of this applies on the defensive end as well. They haven't figured out their role and how to be part of the team on that end. Wiggins seems to be making some pretty good strides this year which is pretty encouraging. This team really needs to get to the playoffs so these young guys see how things are ramped up so they get some perspective of what it's gonna take. I think both guys work hard on their game and I don't think either guy is selfish they either don't have the game/skill yet or just haven't figured it out.

The good teams have legit NBA vet players that coaches and the other players know what they can or will do and builds a foundation and those guys have been there for a few years. That helps teams put young players or whoever they find in positions where they can do certain things that are asked of them. The Wolves are probably a year away at least from having that. Hopefully next year with Buter Gibson Teague and other experienced rotations guys like Crawford Dieng and Belly joining younger guys like Towns Wiggins and Tyus it will create a legit base (along with probably some other vet player they add) for guys like Patton MGH (or whoever else they pick up or draft) to be able to come in and do something positive.

[Lipoli390]

Monster --

What are the stats that reflect the strides Wiggins has taken so far this season? His 3-point and free throw percentages are down significantly from last season and his overall shooting percentage is about the same. His scoring is down while his rebounding and assists are essentially the same as last season. He's averaging about the same number of blocks per game as his first two seasons. His steals are up from 1.0 to 1.3 per game -- nothing to write home about. His PER is down significantly as well. As for the eye test, yes I've seen some good moments from him. But we've always seen good moments from him. And my eye test shows no improvement in his poor ballhandling and the same poor shot selection. Then you look at the stats and they don't lie.

The legitimate frustrations expressed by many on this Board regarding KAT have morphed to some extent into a level of hysteria or disdain that makes no sense. The guy competes hard every single game and gets pounded without getting calls. Maybe it's not as apparent on TV, but it's incredibly obvious in person. Beyond his effort, he provides production. He gives the team 12 rebounds every game. I recall KG saying once long ago that you don't rebound in this League without getting after it. It takes a lot of effort, energy and determination to rebound at the level we've seen from KAT consistently all last season and this one. He's also our best 3-point shooter, our leading scorer and an efficient scorer. He's had only 2 NBA seasons after 1 college season so, not surprisingly, he makes mental mistakes, particularly on the defensive end. I definitely expect him to improve a lot over time. But his consistent production in two areas (scoring and rebounding), his scoring efficiency and his effort should provide some perspective.

I'd love to see those things from Wiggins, but so far we've just seen flashes. You can count on getting at least 11-12 rebounds from KAT nearly every single game and you're probably going to get at least 15 points from him, even on a bad day. Unfortunately, you can't rely on Wiggins for anything game to game. That's the problem. I'm still waiting and hopeful we start to see more than flashes from him. If we do, then we'll start seeing genuine improvement that shows up in his numbers.

[thedoper]

Monster --

What are the stats that reflect the strides Wiggins has taken so far this season? His 3-point and free throw percentages are down significantly from last season and his overall shooting percentage is about the same. His scoring is down while his rebounding and assists are essentially the same as last season. He's averaging about the same number of blocks per game as his first two seasons. His steals are up from 1.0 to 1.3 per game -- nothing to write home about. His PER is down significantly as well. As for the eye test, yes I've seen some good moments from him. But we've always seen good moments from him. And my eye test shows no improvement in his poor ballhandling and the same poor shot selection. Then you look at the stats and they don't lie.

The legitimate frustrations expressed by many on this Board regarding KAT have morphed to some extent into a level of hysteria or disdain that makes no sense. The guy competes hard every single game and gets pounded without getting calls. Maybe it's not as apparent on TV, but it's incredibly obvious in person. Beyond his effort, he provides production. He gives the team 12 rebounds every game. I recall KG saying once long ago that you don't rebound in this League without getting after it. It takes a lot of effort, energy and determination to rebound at the level we've seen from KAT consistently all last season and this one. He's also our best 3-point shooter, our leading scorer and an efficient scorer. He's had only 2 NBA seasons after 1 college season so, not surprisingly, he makes mental mistakes, particularly on the defensive end. I definitely expect him to improve a lot over time. But his consistent production in two areas (scoring and rebounding), his scoring efficiency and his effort should provide some perspective.

I'd love to see those things from Wiggins, but so far we've just seen flashes. You can count on getting at least 11-12 rebounds from KAT nearly every single game and you're probably going to get at least 15 points from him, even on a bad day. Unfortunately, you can't rely on Wiggins for anything game to game. That's the problem. I'm still waiting and hopeful we start to see more than flashes from him. If we do, then we'll start seeing genuine improvement that shows up in his numbers.

I'd like to make a comment only on Wiggins' "poor shot selection". He has notably changed his shot selection this year to increase efficiency. He is making fewer FGAs with career highs in 3PA. This is the greatest proportion of his career being 3pts at almost a third of his shot attempts. If he starts hitting more consistently he will easily reach career highs in eFG and TS just from shot selection. I find more than ever he is playing within the system. Obviously there can be improvements but there has been a noted change in his shot selection this year.

[Monster]

Monster --

What are the stats that reflect the strides Wiggins has taken so far this season? His 3-point and free throw percentages are down significantly from last season and his overall shooting percentage is about the same. His scoring is down while his rebounding and assists are essentially the same as last season. He's averaging about the same number of blocks per game as his first two seasons. His steals are up from 1.0 to 1.3 per game -- nothing to write home about. His PER is down significantly as well. As for the eye test, yes I've seen some good moments from him. But we've always seen good moments from him. And my eye test shows no improvement in his poor ballhandling and the same poor shot selection. Then you look at the stats and they don't lie.

The legitimate frustrations expressed by many on this Board regarding KAT have morphed to some extent into a level of hysteria or disdain that makes no sense. The guy competes hard every single game and gets pounded without getting calls. Maybe it's not as apparent on TV, but it's incredibly obvious in person. Beyond his effort, he provides production. He gives the team 12 rebounds every game. I recall KG saying once long ago that you don't rebound in this League without getting after it. It takes a lot of effort, energy and determination to rebound at the level we've seen from KAT consistently all last season and this one. He's also our best 3-point shooter, our leading scorer and an efficient scorer. He's had only 2 NBA seasons after 1 college season so, not surprisingly, he makes mental mistakes, particularly on the defensive end. I definitely expect him to improve a lot over time. But his consistent production in two areas (scoring and rebounding), his scoring efficiency and his effort should provide some perspective.

I'd love to see those things from Wiggins, but so far we've just seen flashes. You can count on getting at least 11-12 rebounds from KAT nearly every single game and you're probably going to get at least 15 points from him, even on a bad day. Unfortunately, you can't rely on Wiggins for anything game to game. That's the problem. I'm still waiting and hopeful we start to see more than flashes from him. If we do, then we'll start seeing genuine improvement that shows up in his numbers.

I'd like to make a comment only on Wiggins' "poor shot selection". He has notably changed his shot selection this year to increase efficiency. He is making fewer FGAs with career highs in 3PA. This is the greatest proportion of his career being 3pts at almost a third of his shot attempts. If he starts hitting more consistently he will easily reach career highs in eFG and TS just from shot selection. I find more than ever he is playing within the system. Obviously there can be improvements but there has been a noted change in his shot selection this year.

I'll add that Wiggins has career best offense and defensive net ratings which add up to his first career net positive rating.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Monster --

What are the stats that reflect the strides Wiggins has taken so far this season? His 3-point and free throw percentages are down significantly from last season and his overall shooting percentage is about the same. His scoring is down while his rebounding and assists are essentially the same as last season. He's averaging about the same number of blocks per game as his first two seasons. His steals are up from 1.0 to 1.3 per game -- nothing to write home about. His PER is down significantly as well. As for the eye test, yes I've seen some good moments from him. But we've always seen good moments from him. And my eye test shows no improvement in his poor ballhandling and the same poor shot selection. Then you look at the stats and they don't lie.

The legitimate frustrations expressed by many on this Board regarding KAT have morphed to some extent into a level of hysteria or disdain that makes no sense. The guy competes hard every single game and gets pounded without getting calls. Maybe it's not as apparent on TV, but it's incredibly obvious in person. Beyond his effort, he provides production. He gives the team 12 rebounds every game. I recall KG saying once long ago that you don't rebound in this League without getting after it. It takes a lot of effort, energy and determination to rebound at the level we've seen from KAT consistently all last season and this one. He's also our best 3-point shooter, our leading scorer and an efficient scorer. He's had only 2 NBA seasons after 1 college season so, not surprisingly, he makes mental mistakes, particularly on the defensive end. I definitely expect him to improve a lot over time. But his consistent production in two areas (scoring and rebounding), his scoring efficiency and his effort should provide some perspective.

I'd love to see those things from Wiggins, but so far we've just seen flashes. You can count on getting at least 11-12 rebounds from KAT nearly every single game and you're probably going to get at least 15 points from him, even on a bad day. Unfortunately, you can't rely on Wiggins for anything game to game. That's the problem. I'm still waiting and hopeful we start to see more than flashes from him. If we do, then we'll start seeing genuine improvement that shows up in his numbers.

I'd like to make a comment only on Wiggins' "poor shot selection". He has notably changed his shot selection this year to increase efficiency. He is making fewer FGAs with career highs in 3PA. This is the greatest proportion of his career being 3pts at almost a third of his shot attempts. If he starts hitting more consistently he will easily reach career highs in eFG and TS just from shot selection. I find more than ever he is playing within the system. Obviously there can be improvements but there has been a noted change in his shot selection this year.

I'll add that Wiggins has career best offense and defensive net ratings which add up to his first career net positive rating.

True, but how much of that is because he's actually playing with better players, specifically Butler?

I post the Net Ratings regularly and it's good to see Wiggins finally in the positive. But that includes how four other guys are performing while he's on the court.

[Monster]

Monster --

What are the stats that reflect the strides Wiggins has taken so far this season? His 3-point and free throw percentages are down significantly from last season and his overall shooting percentage is about the same. His scoring is down while his rebounding and assists are essentially the same as last season. He's averaging about the same number of blocks per game as his first two seasons. His steals are up from 1.0 to 1.3 per game -- nothing to write home about. His PER is down significantly as well. As for the eye test, yes I've seen some good moments from him. But we've always seen good moments from him. And my eye test shows no improvement in his poor ballhandling and the same poor shot selection. Then you look at the stats and they don't lie.

The legitimate frustrations expressed by many on this Board regarding KAT have morphed to some extent into a level of hysteria or disdain that makes no sense. The guy competes hard every single game and gets pounded without getting calls. Maybe it's not as apparent on TV, but it's incredibly obvious in person. Beyond his effort, he provides production. He gives the team 12 rebounds every game. I recall KG saying once long ago that you don't rebound in this League without getting after it. It takes a lot of effort, energy and determination to rebound at the level we've seen from KAT consistently all last season and this one. He's also our best 3-point shooter, our leading scorer and an efficient scorer. He's had only 2 NBA seasons after 1 college season so, not surprisingly, he makes mental mistakes, particularly on the defensive end. I definitely expect him to improve a lot over time. But his consistent production in two areas (scoring and rebounding), his scoring efficiency and his effort should provide some perspective.

I'd love to see those things from Wiggins, but so far we've just seen flashes. You can count on getting at least 11-12 rebounds from KAT nearly every single game and you're probably going to get at least 15 points from him, even on a bad day. Unfortunately, you can't rely on Wiggins for anything game to game. That's the problem. I'm still waiting and hopeful we start to see more than flashes from him. If we do, then we'll start seeing genuine improvement that shows up in his numbers.

I'd like to make a comment only on Wiggins' "poor shot selection". He has notably changed his shot selection this year to increase efficiency. He is making fewer FGAs with career highs in 3PA. This is the greatest proportion of his career being 3pts at almost a third of his shot attempts. If he starts hitting more consistently he will easily reach career highs in eFG and TS just from shot selection. I find more than ever he is playing within the system. Obviously there can be improvements but there has been a noted change in his shot selection this year.

I'll add that Wiggins has career best offense and defensive net ratings which add up to his first career net positive rating.

True, but how much of that is because he's actually playing with better players, specifically Butler?

I post the Net Ratings regularly and it's good to see Wiggins finally in the positive. But that includes how four other guys are performing while he's on the court.

He asked for stats so that's what i provided. It's worth mentioning stats aren't everything. There is quite a conversation around the internets about how the numbers seem to say the Pistons this year are much better defensively with Avery Bradley off the floor. That makes zero sense based on what I have seen of the guy this year and not just against the Wolves.

[Lipoli390]

Monster --

What are the stats that reflect the strides Wiggins has taken so far this season? His 3-point and free throw percentages are down significantly from last season and his overall shooting percentage is about the same. His scoring is down while his rebounding and assists are essentially the same as last season. He's averaging about the same number of blocks per game as his first two seasons. His steals are up from 1.0 to 1.3 per game -- nothing to write home about. His PER is down significantly as well. As for the eye test, yes I've seen some good moments from him. But we've always seen good moments from him. And my eye test shows no improvement in his poor ballhandling and the same poor shot selection. Then you look at the stats and they don't lie.

The legitimate frustrations expressed by many on this Board regarding KAT have morphed to some extent into a level of hysteria or disdain that makes no sense. The guy competes hard every single game and gets pounded without getting calls. Maybe it's not as apparent on TV, but it's incredibly obvious in person. Beyond his effort, he provides production. He gives the team 12 rebounds every game. I recall KG saying once long ago that you don't rebound in this League without getting after it. It takes a lot of effort, energy and determination to rebound at the level we've seen from KAT consistently all last season and this one. He's also our best 3-point shooter, our leading scorer and an efficient scorer. He's had only 2 NBA seasons after 1 college season so, not surprisingly, he makes mental mistakes, particularly on the defensive end. I definitely expect him to improve a lot over time. But his consistent production in two areas (scoring and rebounding), his scoring efficiency and his effort should provide some perspective.

I'd love to see those things from Wiggins, but so far we've just seen flashes. You can count on getting at least 11-12 rebounds from KAT nearly every single game and you're probably going to get at least 15 points from him, even on a bad day. Unfortunately, you can't rely on Wiggins for anything game to game. That's the problem. I'm still waiting and hopeful we start to see more than flashes from him. If we do, then we'll start seeing genuine improvement that shows up in his numbers.

I'd like to make a comment only on Wiggins' "poor shot selection". He has notably changed his shot selection this year to increase efficiency. He is making fewer FGAs with career highs in 3PA. This is the greatest proportion of his career being 3pts at almost a third of his shot attempts. If he starts hitting more consistently he will easily reach career highs in eFG and TS just from shot selection. I find more than ever he is playing within the system. Obviously there can be improvements but there has been a noted change in his shot selection this year.

I'll add that Wiggins has career best offense and defensive net ratings which add up to his first career net positive rating.

True, but how much of that is because he's actually playing with better players, specifically Butler?

I post the Net Ratings regularly and it's good to see Wiggins finally in the positive. But that includes how four other guys are performing while he's on the court.

He asked for stats so that's what i provided. It's worth mentioning stats aren't everything. There is quite a conversation around the internets about how the numbers seem to say the Pistons this year are much better defensively with Avery Bradley off the floor. That makes zero sense based on what I have seen of the guy this year and not just against the Wolves.

I appreciate the effort, Monster. :). But as Q pointed out, it's a bit problematic to measure a player's production or improvement based on stats that are intertwined with the performance of other players. At some point, individual contribution or improvement boils down to individual stats. If your scoring and 3-point percentages are way down while your scoring efficiency, rebounding, assists, blocks and steals are no better than they've been, it's really hard to make a case that you're improving. I'll admit that Wiggins seem a bit more engaged and makes more of any effort to rebound and pursue loose balls than he has previously. But that's really subjective and hasn't translated into improved statistics. At the same time, by my eye test, his hands and handle are every bit as bad as they've been since he arrived here.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'd like to make a comment only on Wiggins' "poor shot selection". He has notably changed his shot selection this year to increase efficiency. He is making fewer FGAs with career highs in 3PA. This is the greatest proportion of his career being 3pts at almost a third of his shot attempts. If he starts hitting more consistently he will easily reach career highs in eFG and TS just from shot selection. I find more than ever he is playing within the system. Obviously there can be improvements but there has been a noted change in his shot selection this year.

Yes. Shots are down. Three point attempts are up.

But what kind of shots are down? I'd be interested to know if that means fewer long two pointers... or fewer assaults on the rim... because those drives were often the best thing about Wiggins game that set him apart from others and pointed to hope for the future.