Holy Sh*t, We'll Actually be Good Next Year

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I need to step back and just think about this a minute.

Adding Jimmy Butler was such a huge move. Swapping Rubio for Teague is kind of lateral IMO, but the fit is better in terms of shooting, and we have the cap space to add another high-quality player, and are reportedly going after Redick, other names floated are Iggy or even Millsap (although I'm not sure where that rumor came from).

We're now a team that free agents want to come and play for. Think about that. That's crazy.

Twelve years now of total futility and hopes that never panned out. Twelve agonizing years that I know many of us lived through together on the ESPN board and lately this one. And it could/should actually be over, and it's all happened so fast.

I encourage you all to step back and think back to everything that has happened since we lost that Lakers series when Sam was out with the hip injury. It's been a long, dark tunnel (second longest in NBA history actually), and we might actually be getting out of it.

How are you guys feeling about all this?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

There seems to be two trains of thought on this. You are either in the title or bust camp who seem to be greatly against this play to get better because they just want to give the Warriors the title for the next 5 years and then start thinking about contending. Or you have the people who are ok with getting a lot better and hoping for a break to potentially win a title, but ultimately could just mean becoming a perennial playoff team for the next x years.

[Monster]

There seems to be two trains of thought on this. You are either in the title or bust camp who seem to be greatly against this play to get better because they just want to give the Warriors the title for the next 5 years and then start thinking about contending. Or you have the people who are ok with getting a lot better and hoping for a break to potentially win a title, but ultimately could just mean becoming a perennial playoff team for the next x years.

I think we are contending and developing at the same time.

A few hours after the Butler deal made me start thinking we were a legit playoff tier team and would act like it. The top teams develop players too.

[Shumway]

We've all been burned with expectation before. So I don't wanna... but I believe we can be good.

Five thirty eight.com is 53 wins for us. They've been wrong before... but maybe... maybe this year we'll actually meet or exceed expectations.

[Lipoli390]

I'm still sorting all this out in my own mind. My initial reaction to the Butler deal was mixed, but I have since embraced it as an exciting step forward while also landing us a promising big man named Justin Patton.

I'm having a more difficult time with what is effectively a Rubio for Teague and a low 1st round pick swap. The pick will probably be in the 25-29 range and we have $5 less cap space to spend in free agency to beef up our disturbingly thin bench. Comparing Ricky and Teague statistically, the swap hurts us defensively and on the boards. It's not clear how much it helps offensively given the positive impact of Ricky's precise passing and extraordinarily high basketball IQ. But I do like that Teague's shooting, while not dramatically better than Ricky's, is good enough to force opponents to pay a lot more attention to him defensively than Rubio. I like that he had a pretty good TS of 57.4% last season, which ranks him #104 in the League, ahead of John Wall's 54.1%, Rubio's 53.9% and Jrue Holiday's 53.2%. He's quickly and athletic. He seems more effective in a high-paced up and down offense. But will the stubborn Thibs run that sort of offense?

I wonder why Thibs didn't make an offer to Tony Snell, who re-signed with the Bucks for only $11 million per year. Strange to pass on such a bargain price for a 26-year old athletic wing who shoots threes.

Stepping back, there's enough so far this summer to get excited about. And I tip my hat to Thibs and Layden for making fairly bold moves. I don't see any move so far that I'd put in the boneheaded category and I think the Butler deal was a smart one. Looking forward to this next and likely final significant move in free agency.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

There seems to be two trains of thought on this. You are either in the title or bust camp who seem to be greatly against this play to get better because they just want to give the Warriors the title for the next 5 years and then start thinking about contending. Or you have the people who are ok with getting a lot better and hoping for a break to potentially win a title, but ultimately could just mean becoming a perennial playoff team for the next x years.

I go back and forth on this, but I think it's less about two opposing philosophies, than about a question of timing.

Of course, getting past the Warriors for the next couple years is going to be incredibly difficult (although injuries, or losing key guys like Iggy or maybe Klay down the line would make it more likely). And there are times when it's definitely in the best interest of a team to strip down and rebuild.

But you can't just perpetually rebuild. At some point, the young assets you acquire begin to lose their value or they get good and want to leave your sh*tty rebuilding team. You're just devaluing your team if you cling to a rebuilding process too long.

I think guys who really favor rebuilding through the draft long-term sometimes become purists, as if they want somehow to have drafted the next KD, Westbrook, and Harden before even trying to get good players around them, but that's so rare (and look how that turned out--no championships). Another claim I hear is that a season isn't successful unless you win a championship, and I get that, but that's too absolute in my view. Usually, teams have to get to be good enough to be a playoff team before they win the championship. Some people treat being a playoff team is somehow bad, but what's wrong with being a perennial playoff team? Holy balls, after 12 years of sucking, I'd freaking LOVE to be a perennial playoff team!

I want more than anything to win a championship. All of us here do. But I think the best way to do it is to know when to invest in the future, and know when to take action.

Thibs has obviously just flipped that switch. Some people think he should have waited longer, but I'm fine with it at this point. With Towns, Wiggins, and the other guys developing, we weren't going to be so bad we'd get another number 1 draft pick (we don't even have our pick next year), and even that is not a guarantee that you're going to get a superstar. Meanwhile, Towns and Wiggins would have spent another year on a bad team, learning bad habits. Getting good now puts our two most valuable future assets in a winning situation, which should rub off positively on them, help convince them to stay down the road, and in the process, help attract more good free agents and generally make this team better.

[Monster]

I'm still sorting all this out in my own mind. My initial reaction to the Butler deal was mixed, but I have since embraced it as an exciting step forward while also landing us a promising big man named Justin Patton.

I'm having a more difficult time with what is effectively a Rubio for Teague and a low 1st round pick swap. The pick will probably be in the 25-29 range and we have $5 less cap space to spend in free agency to beef up our disturbingly thin bench. Comparing Ricky and Teague statistically, the swap hurts us defensively and on the boards. It's not clear how much it helps offensively given the positive impact of Ricky's precise passing and extraordinarily high basketball IQ. But I do like that Teague's shooting, while not dramatically better than Ricky's, is good enough to force opponents to pay a lot more attention to him defensively than Rubio. I like that he had a pretty good TS of 57.4% last season, which ranks him #104 in the League, ahead of John Wall's 54.1%, Rubio's 53.9% and Jrue Holiday's 53.2%. He's quickly and athletic. He seems more effective in a high-paced up and down offense. But will the stubborn Thibs run that sort of offense?

I wonder why Thibs didn't make an offer to Tony Snell, who re-signed with the Bucks for only $11 million per year. Strange to pass on such a bargain price for a 26-year old athletic wing who shoots threes.

Stepping back, there's enough so far this summer to get excited about. And I tip my hat to Thibs and Layden for making fairly bold moves. I don't see any move so far that I'd put in the boneheaded category and I think the Butler deal was a smart one. Looking forward to this next and likely final significant move in free agency.

Lip a couple other things I'll mention about Teague here and keep in mind Inam not a huge Teague fan. Actually I think he is one of those under-overrated guys. I saw something about how he was a very good player in the pick and roll. He was like 85 percentile compared to Rubio who was in the 50's. Another thing that shouldn't be overlooked is Teague's extensive playoff experience and therefore actually playing on teams that were pretty good and when he was with Atlanta they played defense. As much as we love Rubio and if he did continue his progression upwards he would have likely taken a year in the playoffs to find himself to some extent. That's not dogging him it's probably what would happen. Teague will have to fit in but he has gone to war at that ramped up level. Rubionwpuld ne a key ball handler learning along with a couple young guys in Wiggins and Towns. Teague has also been very durable.

12-13 million for Snell or 16 for Redick? It might not be how that plays out but if that was the option Inwould take JJ espcially if it was just a 3 year deal. I consider him a very good player.

[Lipoli390]

I'm still sorting all this out in my own mind. My initial reaction to the Butler deal was mixed, but I have since embraced it as an exciting step forward while also landing us a promising big man named Justin Patton.

I'm having a more difficult time with what is effectively a Rubio for Teague and a low 1st round pick swap. The pick will probably be in the 25-29 range and we have $5 less cap space to spend in free agency to beef up our disturbingly thin bench. Comparing Ricky and Teague statistically, the swap hurts us defensively and on the boards. It's not clear how much it helps offensively given the positive impact of Ricky's precise passing and extraordinarily high basketball IQ. But I do like that Teague's shooting, while not dramatically better than Ricky's, is good enough to force opponents to pay a lot more attention to him defensively than Rubio. I like that he had a pretty good TS of 57.4% last season, which ranks him #104 in the League, ahead of John Wall's 54.1%, Rubio's 53.9% and Jrue Holiday's 53.2%. He's quickly and athletic. He seems more effective in a high-paced up and down offense. But will the stubborn Thibs run that sort of offense?

I wonder why Thibs didn't make an offer to Tony Snell, who re-signed with the Bucks for only $11 million per year. Strange to pass on such a bargain price for a 26-year old athletic wing who shoots threes.

Stepping back, there's enough so far this summer to get excited about. And I tip my hat to Thibs and Layden for making fairly bold moves. I don't see any move so far that I'd put in the boneheaded category and I think the Butler deal was a smart one. Looking forward to this next and likely final significant move in free agency.

Lip a couple other things I'll mention about Teague here and keep in mind Inam not a huge Teague fan. Actually I think he is one of those under-overrated guys. I saw something about how he was a very good player in the pick and roll. He was like 85 percentile compared to Rubio who was in the 50's. Another thing that shouldn't be overlooked is Teague's extensive playoff experience and therefore actually playing on teams that were pretty good and when he was with Atlanta they played defense. As much as we love Rubio and if he did continue his progression upwards he would have likely taken a year in the playoffs to find himself to some extent. That's not dogging him it's probably what would happen. Teague will have to fit in but he has gone to war at that ramped up level. Rubionwpuld ne a key ball handler learning along with a couple young guys in Wiggins and Towns. Teague has also been very durable.

12-13 million for Snell or 16 for Redick? It might not be how that plays out but if that was the option Inwould take JJ espcially if it was just a 3 year deal. I consider him a very good player.

Some good additional points about Teague, Monster. Actually I noticed his durability. As some have mentioned, durability is a skill and an important one.

I'd take Snell at $12-13 million in a heartbeat over Redick at $16 million. Snell's much younger, longer, more athletic and a better defender. And I'd put the $4 million in cap space I save to good use.

[Monster]

I'm still sorting all this out in my own mind. My initial reaction to the Butler deal was mixed, but I have since embraced it as an exciting step forward while also landing us a promising big man named Justin Patton.

I'm having a more difficult time with what is effectively a Rubio for Teague and a low 1st round pick swap. The pick will probably be in the 25-29 range and we have $5 less cap space to spend in free agency to beef up our disturbingly thin bench. Comparing Ricky and Teague statistically, the swap hurts us defensively and on the boards. It's not clear how much it helps offensively given the positive impact of Ricky's precise passing and extraordinarily high basketball IQ. But I do like that Teague's shooting, while not dramatically better than Ricky's, is good enough to force opponents to pay a lot more attention to him defensively than Rubio. I like that he had a pretty good TS of 57.4% last season, which ranks him #104 in the League, ahead of John Wall's 54.1%, Rubio's 53.9% and Jrue Holiday's 53.2%. He's quickly and athletic. He seems more effective in a high-paced up and down offense. But will the stubborn Thibs run that sort of offense?

I wonder why Thibs didn't make an offer to Tony Snell, who re-signed with the Bucks for only $11 million per year. Strange to pass on such a bargain price for a 26-year old athletic wing who shoots threes.

Stepping back, there's enough so far this summer to get excited about. And I tip my hat to Thibs and Layden for making fairly bold moves. I don't see any move so far that I'd put in the boneheaded category and I think the Butler deal was a smart one. Looking forward to this next and likely final significant move in free agency.

Lip a couple other things I'll mention about Teague here and keep in mind Inam not a huge Teague fan. Actually I think he is one of those under-overrated guys. I saw something about how he was a very good player in the pick and roll. He was like 85 percentile compared to Rubio who was in the 50's. Another thing that shouldn't be overlooked is Teague's extensive playoff experience and therefore actually playing on teams that were pretty good and when he was with Atlanta they played defense. As much as we love Rubio and if he did continue his progression upwards he would have likely taken a year in the playoffs to find himself to some extent. That's not dogging him it's probably what would happen. Teague will have to fit in but he has gone to war at that ramped up level. Rubionwpuld ne a key ball handler learning along with a couple young guys in Wiggins and Towns. Teague has also been very durable.

12-13 million for Snell or 16 for Redick? It might not be how that plays out but if that was the option Inwould take JJ espcially if it was just a 3 year deal. I consider him a very good player.

Some good additional points about Teague, Monster. Actually I noticed his durability. As some have mentioned, durability is a skill and an important one.

I'd take Snell at $12-13 million in a heartbeat over Redick at $16 million. Snell's much younger, longer, more athletic and a better defender. And I'd put the $4 million in cap space I save to good use.

Fair enough. I could go either way. Snell's deal could be worth 46 million btw.

[Lipoli390]

I'm still sorting all this out in my own mind. My initial reaction to the Butler deal was mixed, but I have since embraced it as an exciting step forward while also landing us a promising big man named Justin Patton.

I'm having a more difficult time with what is effectively a Rubio for Teague and a low 1st round pick swap. The pick will probably be in the 25-29 range and we have $5 less cap space to spend in free agency to beef up our disturbingly thin bench. Comparing Ricky and Teague statistically, the swap hurts us defensively and on the boards. It's not clear how much it helps offensively given the positive impact of Ricky's precise passing and extraordinarily high basketball IQ. But I do like that Teague's shooting, while not dramatically better than Ricky's, is good enough to force opponents to pay a lot more attention to him defensively than Rubio. I like that he had a pretty good TS of 57.4% last season, which ranks him #104 in the League, ahead of John Wall's 54.1%, Rubio's 53.9% and Jrue Holiday's 53.2%. He's quickly and athletic. He seems more effective in a high-paced up and down offense. But will the stubborn Thibs run that sort of offense?

I wonder why Thibs didn't make an offer to Tony Snell, who re-signed with the Bucks for only $11 million per year. Strange to pass on such a bargain price for a 26-year old athletic wing who shoots threes.

Stepping back, there's enough so far this summer to get excited about. And I tip my hat to Thibs and Layden for making fairly bold moves. I don't see any move so far that I'd put in the boneheaded category and I think the Butler deal was a smart one. Looking forward to this next and likely final significant move in free agency.

Lip a couple other things I'll mention about Teague here and keep in mind Inam not a huge Teague fan. Actually I think he is one of those under-overrated guys. I saw something about how he was a very good player in the pick and roll. He was like 85 percentile compared to Rubio who was in the 50's. Another thing that shouldn't be overlooked is Teague's extensive playoff experience and therefore actually playing on teams that were pretty good and when he was with Atlanta they played defense. As much as we love Rubio and if he did continue his progression upwards he would have likely taken a year in the playoffs to find himself to some extent. That's not dogging him it's probably what would happen. Teague will have to fit in but he has gone to war at that ramped up level. Rubionwpuld ne a key ball handler learning along with a couple young guys in Wiggins and Towns. Teague has also been very durable.

12-13 million for Snell or 16 for Redick? It might not be how that plays out but if that was the option Inwould take JJ espcially if it was just a 3 year deal. I consider him a very good player.

Some good additional points about Teague, Monster. Actually I noticed his durability. As some have mentioned, durability is a skill and an important one.

I'd take Snell at $12-13 million in a heartbeat over Redick at $16 million. Snell's much younger, longer, more athletic and a better defender. And I'd put the $4 million in cap space I save to good use.

Fair enough. I could go either way. Snell's deal could be worth 46 million btw.

Yes, but only $44 million is guaranteed and that's what matters. In any event, even at $46 million it still only $11.5 million per year. That's a bargain for a player of Tony's caliber in this NBA market. Thibs must not like him from their days together in Chicago. As I recall, one of the bones of contention between Thibs and the Bulls front office was the fact that the Bulls drafted Snell over Thibs choice. I can't recall Thibs' choice at the time.