Goodbye LaVine, Dunn and 7

[kekgeek]

Goodbye, farewell, and amen

Can you show up to every draft

[60WinTim]

Goodbye, farewell, and amen

Can you show up to every draft

He does! He was even on camera one year...

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Goodbye, farewell, and amen

Can you show up to every draft

He does! He was even on camera one year...

LOL, that's why he was so shocked. He's used to abject disappointment and had already fully expected us to take Markkanen.

BTW, DX absolutely nailed the draft this year.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The best way to look at it for me is, if Zach's ceiling was Jimmy Butler, we would have been thrilled. But the fact is, he is coming off ACL surgery and is not Jimmy yet (and probably will never be defensively). This was a deal we had to make. If Dunn and Zach become all-stars and lead Chicago to the ECF, I might regret it. I am now a believer that Thibs/Layden have already been working on bringing in FAs to mesh with this team. Can't wait to see who we add!

I can't agree with this point enough. Will LaVine ever be as good all around as Butler? I'd say it's possible, but it's just as possible if not more likely that he isn't. To me LaVine is the only part of the trade that hurts, but Butler is the better player and LaVine will probably never be as good as him. The Wolves need to start winning. Butler helps them do that. If I'm a free agent I want to come to the Wolves. You get paired with one of the best players in the game in Butler plus two youngsters with loads of potential.

One could make an argument that we traded the wrong wing. LaVine and Butler make for a better pairing on paper...and may be we could have even kept #7 or Dunn in a deal that involved Wiggins.

I'm thrilled with the trade - don't get me wrong - but LaVine still has a chance to be an absolute monster shooter. I don't think Chicago fans should totally write this deal off....

[TRKO [enjin:12664595]]

The best way to look at it for me is, if Zach's ceiling was Jimmy Butler, we would have been thrilled. But the fact is, he is coming off ACL surgery and is not Jimmy yet (and probably will never be defensively). This was a deal we had to make. If Dunn and Zach become all-stars and lead Chicago to the ECF, I might regret it. I am now a believer that Thibs/Layden have already been working on bringing in FAs to mesh with this team. Can't wait to see who we add!

I can't agree with this point enough. Will LaVine ever be as good all around as Butler? I'd say it's possible, but it's just as possible if not more likely that he isn't. To me LaVine is the only part of the trade that hurts, but Butler is the better player and LaVine will probably never be as good as him. The Wolves need to start winning. Butler helps them do that. If I'm a free agent I want to come to the Wolves. You get paired with one of the best players in the game in Butler plus two youngsters with loads of potential.

One could make an argument that we traded the wrong wing. LaVine and Butler make for a better pairing on paper...and may be we could have even kept #7 or Dunn in a deal that involved Wiggins.

I'm thrilled with the trade - don't get me wrong - but LaVine still has a chance to be an absolute monster shooter. I don't think Chicago fans should totally write this deal off....

Had their been no knee injury I may be more inclined to agree. I also agree that this deal isn't as bad for the Bulls as fans are making it out to be.

[60WinTim]

The best way to look at it for me is, if Zach's ceiling was Jimmy Butler, we would have been thrilled. But the fact is, he is coming off ACL surgery and is not Jimmy yet (and probably will never be defensively). This was a deal we had to make. If Dunn and Zach become all-stars and lead Chicago to the ECF, I might regret it. I am now a believer that Thibs/Layden have already been working on bringing in FAs to mesh with this team. Can't wait to see who we add!

I can't agree with this point enough. Will LaVine ever be as good all around as Butler? I'd say it's possible, but it's just as possible if not more likely that he isn't. To me LaVine is the only part of the trade that hurts, but Butler is the better player and LaVine will probably never be as good as him. The Wolves need to start winning. Butler helps them do that. If I'm a free agent I want to come to the Wolves. You get paired with one of the best players in the game in Butler plus two youngsters with loads of potential.

One could make an argument that we traded the wrong wing. LaVine and Butler make for a better pairing on paper...and may be we could have even kept #7 or Dunn in a deal that involved Wiggins.

I'm thrilled with the trade - don't get me wrong - but LaVine still has a chance to be an absolute monster shooter. I don't think Chicago fans should totally write this deal off....

I agree with you on DX. They nailed the draft. I kept checking their mock draft to see who might be slipping. No one.

I whine about Wiggins a ton. But I choose the wing tandem of Butler and Wiggins every time. But the list of advantages Wiggins has over LaVine as a wing is pretty damn long. Butler/Wiggins is going to be a nightmare to defend. Either one will have an advantage over the opponents 2nd best wing defender.

I love LaVine. I really wanted him to work out here. But from a basketball standpoint, we are fortunate that Butler did not cost us Wiggins.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The best way to look at it for me is, if Zach's ceiling was Jimmy Butler, we would have been thrilled. But the fact is, he is coming off ACL surgery and is not Jimmy yet (and probably will never be defensively). This was a deal we had to make. If Dunn and Zach become all-stars and lead Chicago to the ECF, I might regret it. I am now a believer that Thibs/Layden have already been working on bringing in FAs to mesh with this team. Can't wait to see who we add!

I can't agree with this point enough. Will LaVine ever be as good all around as Butler? I'd say it's possible, but it's just as possible if not more likely that he isn't. To me LaVine is the only part of the trade that hurts, but Butler is the better player and LaVine will probably never be as good as him. The Wolves need to start winning. Butler helps them do that. If I'm a free agent I want to come to the Wolves. You get paired with one of the best players in the game in Butler plus two youngsters with loads of potential.

One could make an argument that we traded the wrong wing. LaVine and Butler make for a better pairing on paper...and may be we could have even kept #7 or Dunn in a deal that involved Wiggins.

I'm thrilled with the trade - don't get me wrong - but LaVine still has a chance to be an absolute monster shooter. I don't think Chicago fans should totally write this deal off....

I agree with you on DX. They nailed the draft. I kept checking their mock draft to see who might be slipping. No one.

I whine about Wiggins a ton. But I choose the wing tandem of Butler and Wiggins every time. But the list of advantages Wiggins has over LaVine as a wing is pretty damn long. Butler/Wiggins is going to be a nightmare to defend. Either one will have an advantage over the opponents 2nd best wing defender.

I love LaVine. I really wanted him to work out here. But from a basketball standpoint, we are fortunate that Butler did not cost us Wiggins.

We'll see....I'm not as bullish (pun intended!) on this deal offensively as I am defensively.

Butler and Wiggins are hard to guard and easy to guard at the same time. There is no question they are a handful and occupy a lot of energy from the guy assigned to them. On the other hand, from a team defense perspective, you can hedge and recover, sometimes go under screens, and send an extra big to wall off the paint, with the primary goal getting them to pull up for lots of long 2's, which both will oblige to. I think teams will live with this....

I really think Thibs needs to work on finding out what 3-point spots these guys like and find ways to increase the volume of 3's they take, even if they shoot in the 35%-ish range. We can' rely on tough turnaround, step back, and long 2s for the bulk of our offense..

[AbeVigodaLive]

The best way to look at it for me is, if Zach's ceiling was Jimmy Butler, we would have been thrilled. But the fact is, he is coming off ACL surgery and is not Jimmy yet (and probably will never be defensively). This was a deal we had to make. If Dunn and Zach become all-stars and lead Chicago to the ECF, I might regret it. I am now a believer that Thibs/Layden have already been working on bringing in FAs to mesh with this team. Can't wait to see who we add!

I can't agree with this point enough. Will LaVine ever be as good all around as Butler? I'd say it's possible, but it's just as possible if not more likely that he isn't. To me LaVine is the only part of the trade that hurts, but Butler is the better player and LaVine will probably never be as good as him. The Wolves need to start winning. Butler helps them do that. If I'm a free agent I want to come to the Wolves. You get paired with one of the best players in the game in Butler plus two youngsters with loads of potential.

One could make an argument that we traded the wrong wing. LaVine and Butler make for a better pairing on paper...and may be we could have even kept #7 or Dunn in a deal that involved Wiggins.

I'm thrilled with the trade - don't get me wrong - but LaVine still has a chance to be an absolute monster shooter. I don't think Chicago fans should totally write this deal off....

I agree with you on DX. They nailed the draft. I kept checking their mock draft to see who might be slipping. No one.

I whine about Wiggins a ton. But I choose the wing tandem of Butler and Wiggins every time. But the list of advantages Wiggins has over LaVine as a wing is pretty damn long. Butler/Wiggins is going to be a nightmare to defend. Either one will have an advantage over the opponents 2nd best wing defender.

I love LaVine. I really wanted him to work out here. But from a basketball standpoint, we are fortunate that Butler did not cost us Wiggins.

We'll see....I'm not as bullish (pun intended!) on this deal offensively as I am defensively.

Butler and Wiggins are hard to guard and easy to guard at the same time. There is no question they are a handful and occupy a lot of energy from the guy assigned to them. On the other hand, from a team defense perspective, you can hedge and recover, sometimes go under screens, and send an extra big to wall off the paint, with the primary goal getting them to pull up for lots of long 2's, which both will oblige to. I think teams will live with this....

I really think Thibs needs to work on finding out what 3-point spots these guys like and find ways to increase the volume of 3's they take, even if they shoot in the 35%-ish range. We can' rely on tough turnaround, step back, and long 2s for the bulk of our offense..

To be fair, Butler averaged 24/6/6 last season. He's bumped his scoring every year in the league. And last year, he did it on a team with arguably even less spacing than the Wolves will have.

LaVine was a promising player. But that's it. There were no guarantees he was going to be a plus guy at any point. There are very long odds against him ever reaching Top 15 status. And no chance it would be because he was a plus defender.

Other Butler positives:

- 8.9 fta last season. (3rd in league)
- 5th in VORP.
- 3rd in Win Shares (3rd offensively... 15th defensively)
- 13th PER
- 3rd in steals

Butler negatives:

- Fake. Phony. Lack of self-awareness.
Call it what you want... but we will hear more about this stuff sooner than later. It's leaking out now. And the public spat last year between Wade + Butler vs. Rondo was embarrassing and a bad look for Butler. But let's enjoy the moment. There is no doubt in my mind that the addition of Butler instantly makes the Wolves a much better basketball team in 2018 than they were in 2017.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The best way to look at it for me is, if Zach's ceiling was Jimmy Butler, we would have been thrilled. But the fact is, he is coming off ACL surgery and is not Jimmy yet (and probably will never be defensively). This was a deal we had to make. If Dunn and Zach become all-stars and lead Chicago to the ECF, I might regret it. I am now a believer that Thibs/Layden have already been working on bringing in FAs to mesh with this team. Can't wait to see who we add!

I can't agree with this point enough. Will LaVine ever be as good all around as Butler? I'd say it's possible, but it's just as possible if not more likely that he isn't. To me LaVine is the only part of the trade that hurts, but Butler is the better player and LaVine will probably never be as good as him. The Wolves need to start winning. Butler helps them do that. If I'm a free agent I want to come to the Wolves. You get paired with one of the best players in the game in Butler plus two youngsters with loads of potential.

One could make an argument that we traded the wrong wing. LaVine and Butler make for a better pairing on paper...and may be we could have even kept #7 or Dunn in a deal that involved Wiggins.

I'm thrilled with the trade - don't get me wrong - but LaVine still has a chance to be an absolute monster shooter. I don't think Chicago fans should totally write this deal off....

I agree with you on DX. They nailed the draft. I kept checking their mock draft to see who might be slipping. No one.

I whine about Wiggins a ton. But I choose the wing tandem of Butler and Wiggins every time. But the list of advantages Wiggins has over LaVine as a wing is pretty damn long. Butler/Wiggins is going to be a nightmare to defend. Either one will have an advantage over the opponents 2nd best wing defender.

I love LaVine. I really wanted him to work out here. But from a basketball standpoint, we are fortunate that Butler did not cost us Wiggins.

We'll see....I'm not as bullish (pun intended!) on this deal offensively as I am defensively.

Butler and Wiggins are hard to guard and easy to guard at the same time. There is no question they are a handful and occupy a lot of energy from the guy assigned to them. On the other hand, from a team defense perspective, you can hedge and recover, sometimes go under screens, and send an extra big to wall off the paint, with the primary goal getting them to pull up for lots of long 2's, which both will oblige to. I think teams will live with this....

I really think Thibs needs to work on finding out what 3-point spots these guys like and find ways to increase the volume of 3's they take, even if they shoot in the 35%-ish range. We can' rely on tough turnaround, step back, and long 2s for the bulk of our offense..

To be fair, Butler averaged 24/6/6 last season. He's bumped his scoring every year in the league. And last year, he did it on a team with arguably even less spacing than the Wolves will have.

LaVine was a promising player. But that's it. There were no guarantees he was going to be a plus guy at any point. There are very long odds against him ever reaching Top 15 status. And no chance it would be because he was a plus defender.

Other Butler positives:

- 8.9 fta last season. (3rd in league)
- 5th in VORP.
- 3rd in Win Shares (3rd offensively... 15th defensively)
- 13th PER
- 3rd in steals

Butler negatives:

- Fake. Phony. Lack of self-awareness.
Call it what you want... but we will hear more about this stuff sooner than later. It's leaking out now. And the public spat last year between Wade + Butler vs. Rondo was embarrassing and a bad look for Butler. But let's enjoy the moment. There is no doubt in my mind that the addition of Butler instantly makes the Wolves a much better basketball team in 2018 than they were in 2017.

...and he was 7th in RPM, TeamRicky's stat and one you often criticize!

The bottom line is when you are really, really, really good, you do well across the board on all of the advanced stats. He is was "only" 14th in PPG, which is why his PER (which loooooves PPG) was down a bit compared to the other stats. Otherwise, he's basically a top 10 NBA player. Yeah baby!

Defense - Check
Toughness - Check
Does Shit - Check
Scores - Check

[AbeVigodaLive]

The best way to look at it for me is, if Zach's ceiling was Jimmy Butler, we would have been thrilled. But the fact is, he is coming off ACL surgery and is not Jimmy yet (and probably will never be defensively). This was a deal we had to make. If Dunn and Zach become all-stars and lead Chicago to the ECF, I might regret it. I am now a believer that Thibs/Layden have already been working on bringing in FAs to mesh with this team. Can't wait to see who we add!

I can't agree with this point enough. Will LaVine ever be as good all around as Butler? I'd say it's possible, but it's just as possible if not more likely that he isn't. To me LaVine is the only part of the trade that hurts, but Butler is the better player and LaVine will probably never be as good as him. The Wolves need to start winning. Butler helps them do that. If I'm a free agent I want to come to the Wolves. You get paired with one of the best players in the game in Butler plus two youngsters with loads of potential.

One could make an argument that we traded the wrong wing. LaVine and Butler make for a better pairing on paper...and may be we could have even kept #7 or Dunn in a deal that involved Wiggins.

I'm thrilled with the trade - don't get me wrong - but LaVine still has a chance to be an absolute monster shooter. I don't think Chicago fans should totally write this deal off....

I agree with you on DX. They nailed the draft. I kept checking their mock draft to see who might be slipping. No one.

I whine about Wiggins a ton. But I choose the wing tandem of Butler and Wiggins every time. But the list of advantages Wiggins has over LaVine as a wing is pretty damn long. Butler/Wiggins is going to be a nightmare to defend. Either one will have an advantage over the opponents 2nd best wing defender.

I love LaVine. I really wanted him to work out here. But from a basketball standpoint, we are fortunate that Butler did not cost us Wiggins.

We'll see....I'm not as bullish (pun intended!) on this deal offensively as I am defensively.

Butler and Wiggins are hard to guard and easy to guard at the same time. There is no question they are a handful and occupy a lot of energy from the guy assigned to them. On the other hand, from a team defense perspective, you can hedge and recover, sometimes go under screens, and send an extra big to wall off the paint, with the primary goal getting them to pull up for lots of long 2's, which both will oblige to. I think teams will live with this....

I really think Thibs needs to work on finding out what 3-point spots these guys like and find ways to increase the volume of 3's they take, even if they shoot in the 35%-ish range. We can' rely on tough turnaround, step back, and long 2s for the bulk of our offense..

To be fair, Butler averaged 24/6/6 last season. He's bumped his scoring every year in the league. And last year, he did it on a team with arguably even less spacing than the Wolves will have.

LaVine was a promising player. But that's it. There were no guarantees he was going to be a plus guy at any point. There are very long odds against him ever reaching Top 15 status. And no chance it would be because he was a plus defender.

Other Butler positives:

- 8.9 fta last season. (3rd in league)
- 5th in VORP.
- 3rd in Win Shares (3rd offensively... 15th defensively)
- 13th PER
- 3rd in steals

Butler negatives:

- Fake. Phony. Lack of self-awareness.
Call it what you want... but we will hear more about this stuff sooner than later. It's leaking out now. And the public spat last year between Wade + Butler vs. Rondo was embarrassing and a bad look for Butler. But let's enjoy the moment. There is no doubt in my mind that the addition of Butler instantly makes the Wolves a much better basketball team in 2018 than they were in 2017.

...and he was 7th in RPM, TeamRicky's stat and one you often criticize!

The bottom line is when you are really, really, really good, you do well across the board on all of the advanced stats. He is was "only" 14th in PPG, which is why his PER (which loooooves PPG) was down a bit compared to the other stats. Otherwise, he's basically a top 10 NBA player. Yeah baby!

Defense - Check
Toughness - Check
Does Shit - Check
Scores - Check

There are other things you simply see while watching. Things that a guy like Andre Iguodala does. Things that keep Memphis in games, year after year. He might not be as fluid as LaVine. The jumper won't look as pretty. But the team simply plays better with him on the floor.

That's what a quality veteran 2-way player can add.